PMC 5.21 ... lightweight ...

[drummerman]

Surprised at the comparatively feather weight of the new PMC.

6kg at 340 x 162 x 284 mm

That includes the additional wood and damping of a transmission line AND a substantial metal back plate.

Those drivers must have minute magnets or the wood is paper thin.

To give a comparison, the smaller Harbeth P3ESR weigh 6.1 kg each.

 

[Al ears]

Surprised at the comparatively feather weight of the new PMC.

6kg at 340 x 162 x 284 mm

That includes the additional wood and damping of a transmission line AND a substantial metal back plate.

Those drivers must have minute magnets or the wood is paper thin.

To give a comparison, the smaller Harbeth P3ESR weigh 6.1 kg each.

That does seem a tad lightweight. My old speakers, of a similar size, were nearly double that without a metal back plate.

 

[drummerman]

A MA Bronze is 5.85 kg.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

My wee twenty 21's are the lightest speakers I've owned which did surprise me on unboxing but do remember that they are pretty narrow at only 15cm's wide,while most of the competition are closer to 20cm,but I can't fault the sound from these little monitors....once they've got the reinforcement from a wall otherwise they do sound a bit lean.

 

[Pedro2]

Weigh nearly 11kg but use very heavy bass drivers. The dimensions are slightly larger than the PMCs.

The smaller scm7s weigh 7.5kg each.

Not sure if weight and sq are directly related however.....

 

[Electro]

I don't know if this will help but here is a cutaway of the PMC21

 

[Frank Harvey]

Magnets don't necessarily need to be big nowadays. ATC use old school magnets which are as big as the driver, which are obviously heavy, but more manufacturers are using different types of magnets to produce the same strength from a smaller magnet. The Ken Kreisel Quattro speakers had to use smaller, Neodymium magnets for the quad tweeter array because they were so close to each other.

 

[Gazzip]

There is a YouTube video of a Peter Thomas (PMC Founder/Owner) discussing his loudspeakers in general terms. He was asked why he favoured paper cones and high density fibreboard over more exotic materials and he says they just sound better/more neutral. By all accounts his marketing guys want him to use carbon fibre or similar because it makes the product appear "technically superior" (read saleable to the gullible), but he isn't interested in compromising SQ to up the sales price. I guess if he applies the same mindset to the weight of the product then he won't give a damn how many KG they are. As long as they sounds as good as it can at that price point why add weight to impress.

I wish my PMC's weighed only 6kg. They are 75kg each including stands! Try moving those around on your own...

 

[macdiddy]

never seen so much foam, sorry "sound absorbing material", no wonder the speaker weighs so little.

*biggrin*

 

[drummerman]

There is a YouTube video of a Peter Thomas (PMC Founder/Owner) discussing his loudspeakers in general terms. He was asked why he favoured paper cones and high density fibreboard over more exotic materials and he says they just sound better/more neutral. By all accounts his marketing guys want him to use carbon fibre or similar because it makes the product appear "technically superior" (read saleable to the gullible), but he isn't interested in compromising SQ to up the sales price. I guess if he applies the same mindset to the weight of the product then he won't give a damn how many KG they are. As long as they sounds as good as it can at that price point why add weight to impress.

I wish my PMC's weighed only 6kg. They are 75kg each including stands! Try moving those around on your own...

I agree, as long as it sounds good. Still, they seem costly at nearly £2000.

A Rega RX1, although not cheap either anymore, is £1k cheaper and they develop all their drivers in-house.

 

[Gazzip]

There is a YouTube video of a Peter Thomas (PMC Founder/Owner) discussing his loudspeakers in general terms. He was asked why he favoured paper cones and high density fibreboard over more exotic materials and he says they just sound better/more neutral. By all accounts his marketing guys want him to use carbon fibre or similar because it makes the product appear "technically superior" (read saleable to the gullible), but he isn't interested in compromising SQ to up the sales price. I guess if he applies the same mindset to the weight of the product then he won't give a damn how many KG they are. As long as they sounds as good as it can at that price point why add weight to impress.

I wish my PMC's weighed only 6kg. They are 75kg each including stands! Try moving those around on your own...

I agree, as long as it sounds good. Still, they seem costly at nearly £2000.

A Rega RX1, although not cheap either anymore, is £1k cheaper and they develop all their drivers in-house.

Yeah, PMC are over priced for what they are, but there is very little out there to chose from that sounds like that to me. Trust me I would rather pay less for the same sound!

 

[drummerman]

There is a YouTube video of a Peter Thomas (PMC Founder/Owner) discussing his loudspeakers in general terms. He was asked why he favoured paper cones and high density fibreboard over more exotic materials and he says they just sound better/more neutral. By all accounts his marketing guys want him to use carbon fibre or similar because it makes the product appear "technically superior" (read saleable to the gullible), but he isn't interested in compromising SQ to up the sales price. I guess if he applies the same mindset to the weight of the product then he won't give a damn how many KG they are. As long as they sounds as good as it can at that price point why add weight to impress.

I wish my PMC's weighed only 6kg. They are 75kg each including stands! Try moving those around on your own...

I agree, as long as it sounds good. Still, they seem costly at nearly £2000.

A Rega RX1, although not cheap either anymore, is £1k cheaper and they develop all their drivers in-house.

Yeah, PMC are over priced for what they are, but there is very little out there to chose from that sounds like that to me. Trust me I would rather pay less for the same sound!

Understand.

I am having one of my 'questioning everything days'. - It'll be over soon 🙂

 

[drummerman]

Magnets don't necessarily need to be big nowadays. ATC use old school magnets which are as big as the driver, which are obviously heavy, but more manufacturers are using different types of magnets to produce the same strength from a smaller magnet. The Ken Kreisel Quattro speakers had to use smaller, Neodymium magnets for the quad tweeter array because they were so close to each other.

Hi David, I know and agree. However, from the pictures of the '21' I would say both the Bass and Tweeter drivers have Ferrites. The tweeter simply because of the size of the housing. I may of course be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the first time ... .

 

[Frank Harvey]

Lightweight drivers don't necessarily need huge magnets. You see some do these crazy subwoofers with magnets so big they need to be supported by internal bracing - those magnets are needed because of the nature of the heavier driver, designed for rigidity, excessive punishment, and huge excursions.

Dont forget though, that photo is of a Twenty.21 - youre talking about the TwentyFive.21 DM.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well I do love my lightweight 21's and apparently I'm only scratching the surface of what they're capable of with my current amp,would love to hear them with something from electro,Leema,or a naim pre/power from further up the ladder ....one day..

 

[Gazzip]

Well I do love my lightweight 21's and apparently I'm only scratching the surface of what they're capable of with my current amp,would love to hear them with something from electro,Leema,or a naim pre/power from further up the ladder ....one day..

You have a great system? I suspect you have more than scratched the surface...

 

[paulkebab]

why that transmission line is almost closed off by the foam lining. I wonder if that particular design created some nasty resonances purely because of its lightweight nature?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well I do love my lightweight 21's and apparently I'm only scratching the surface of what they're capable of with my current amp,would love to hear them with something from electro,Leema,or a naim pre/power from further up the ladder....one day.

You have a great system? I suspect you have more than scratched the surface...

thanks Gazzip.much appreciated comming from yourself.I know your own system cost many thousands of £££££'s.

 

[Gray]

PMC said the type and positioning of the foam was critical to getting the desired LF at the end of the line on the 21 (so presumably the 25 too)

All I know is that with the right music (say mid 70's Philadelphia Orchestra) with a Cyrus amp feeding my 21s, I'm not thinking about the foam or (5Kg) weight - just appreciating the music. I've certainly heard deeper bass (especially when working in live venues with stacks of car-sized bass bins) but I've not heard a more tuneful bassline.

If those 25s are better than the 21s (not by too much we hope, eh Mark?) then they will be great.

The best part of 2 grands worth? Value is in the ear (and wallet) of the beholder.

 

[Timo]

Well I do love my lightweight 21's and apparently I'm only scratching the surface of what they're capable of with my current amp,would love to hear them with something from electro,Leema,or a naim pre/power from further up the ladder ....one day..

I think I know where you are coming from. My XS2 drives a pair of Twenty5.23, and I fear I am terribly overspeakered. But another way to look at it: future-proof speakers for climbing up the (Naim) ladder. ;-) [Though climbing up has to wait for some time in my case; at least until these nasty nursery fees are a thing of the past...]

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think I know where you are coming from. My XS2 drives a pair of Twenty5.23, and I fear I am terribly overspeakered. But another way to look at it: future-proof speakers for climbing up the (Naim) ladder. ;-) [Though climbing up has to wait for some time in my case; at least until these nasty nursery fees are a thing of the past...]

Your speakers, as you say, will stand you an amp upgrade, but I wouldn't say the XS2 is out of its depth at anything - the PMCs aren't terribly demanding on an amplifier.

 

[Gazzip]

Well I do love my lightweight 21's and apparently I'm only scratching the surface of what they're capable of with my current amp,would love to hear them with something from electro,Leema,or a naim pre/power from further up the ladder ....one day..

I think I know where you are coming from. My XS2 drives a pair of Twenty5.23, and I fear I am terribly overspeakered. But another way to look at it: future-proof speakers for climbing up the (Naim) ladder. ;-) [Though climbing up has to wait for some time in my case; at least until these nasty nursery fees are a thing of the past...]

Tell me about it. We have two rug-rats in full time nursery at the moment. Factor in the central(ish) London weighting of the fees we have to pay and that's a pair of 25 21's and matching PMC stands every single month we could have if it wasn't for the pesky kids!

 

[gasolin]

Surprised at the comparatively feather weight of the new PMC.

6kg at 340 x 162 x 284 mm

That includes the additional wood and damping of a transmission line AND a substantial metal back plate.

Those drivers must have minute magnets or the wood is paper thin.

To give a comparison, the smaller Harbeth P3ESR weigh 6.1 kg each.

Why?

Dali Zensor 3 351 x 205x 293mm 6.3kg

B&W 685 s2 345 x 190 x 324 mm 6.8kg

 

[drummerman]

Surprised at the comparatively feather weight of the new PMC.

6kg at 340 x 162 x 284 mm

That includes the additional wood and damping of a transmission line AND a substantial metal back plate.

Those drivers must have minute magnets or the wood is paper thin.

To give a comparison, the smaller Harbeth P3ESR weigh 6.1 kg each.

Why?

Dali Zensor 3   351 x 205x 293mm 6.3kg

B&W 685 s2 345 x 190 x 324 mm 6.8kg

I think you've answered your own question.