Hi, looking to upgrade to a flat panel tv in the next month or so and am confused as to the best course of action. I currently have a 96cm CRT and have held off on upgrading until now due to the early problems of burn-in and motion blur with flat panel sets though those issues now seem to be resolved and its time to move up to HD (full HD). Problem is I have no idea of the pros & cons which can dictate a decision between LCD & Plasma. The sets I'm looking at are in the 46-52" range, Sony Bravia LCD or Panasonic / Pioneer for Plasma. From what I've seen so far (not much) the Sony sets look amazing - bright and sharp though I haven't had any more viewing than a few minutes in the store. My only concern is about the panel life on LCD as I have several large Apple displays used for computers and they definitely dim and colour shift over time though we do use them for 8-10 hours a day which obviously we would not with a tv and I'm sure the tv-use panels are very different specification. People are telling me that plasma is best for 40"+, faster, with better colour etc though this months' mag has the Sony KDL-40W4000 out front. Any opinions and / or experience to pass on? Also, any advice on viewing material for testing - I know Monsters Inc. looks good on everything so I want an alternative to what they want me to see in-store. The set will be used primarily for off-air HD images (we're in Australia) and a Blu-ray player to be added towards the end of the year. The set's sound capabilities are of no concern as I have an AV receiver.
Plasma / LCD for first flat screen TV?
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professorhat
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At 46 - 52", most people on these forums will agree plasma is better. Ideally, the best sets are made by Pioneer but you pay a price premium for this. I've had Panasonic sets all my life, my two year old 42" plasma is wonderful and from what I gather, the latest models are even better.
As most of you viewing is HD material, and you want a large set (46/52) you should go for Full HD.
The Pioneer Full HD are v. expensive . The Panasonic have the PZ80 in 46 and 50", the PZ85 in 46, the PZ800 in 50" . The PZ800 is the top of the range. Specs for the PZ80 , PZ85 and PZ800 are on the panasonic web sites. (UK, not sure about Australia)
Some would say the HD Ready Pioneers are just as good as these Panasonics. You have to make that judgement yourself, but I think at these sizes Full HD can make a difference.
The Pioneer Full HD are v. expensive . The Panasonic have the PZ80 in 46 and 50", the PZ85 in 46, the PZ800 in 50" . The PZ800 is the top of the range. Specs for the PZ80 , PZ85 and PZ800 are on the panasonic web sites. (UK, not sure about Australia)
Some would say the HD Ready Pioneers are just as good as these Panasonics. You have to make that judgement yourself, but I think at these sizes Full HD can make a difference.
Alantiggger
Well-known member
Thanks fellas - seems to be a strong plasma concensus there - can you give me some reasons?
And I definitely want full HD as at this point it seems a bit of a retrograde step to go semi-HD.
I've only been looking at Pioneer and Panasonic so far - cost isn't so much an issue as generally, if short of cash I'm happy to wait to get what I want though I have to say most people I've spoken to are of the opinion that Panasonic is the sensible choice over Pioneer - ie Pioneer are a bit of a price hike for not much difference.
Any further opinions - not even the newer Sony's? I did however find out that we're a bit behind in Aus on Sony too - we're currently on 3100 models which I "think" are the 3500 models but cant say for sure - and unlikely there will be newer models until August - havent checked the Panny's yet.
And I definitely want full HD as at this point it seems a bit of a retrograde step to go semi-HD.
I've only been looking at Pioneer and Panasonic so far - cost isn't so much an issue as generally, if short of cash I'm happy to wait to get what I want though I have to say most people I've spoken to are of the opinion that Panasonic is the sensible choice over Pioneer - ie Pioneer are a bit of a price hike for not much difference.
Any further opinions - not even the newer Sony's? I did however find out that we're a bit behind in Aus on Sony too - we're currently on 3100 models which I "think" are the 3500 models but cant say for sure - and unlikely there will be newer models until August - havent checked the Panny's yet.
The Sony 40W4000 is out in the UK and has good reviews, one of the best LCDs (check out HDVTest, TrustedReviews), but not as good as the best of the plasmas in terms of blacks, contrast, motion, wider viewing angles.. but not far off. (the X4000 model hasnt been released yet)
The Pioneer are rated as the best plasmas. The latest 2008 models are not yet out (50" is the smallest) and they should be even better, but at a price. The 2008 Panasonics are close to the Pioneer and are probably better value for the money (IMO).
One other point as you're in Australia, plasmas dont like bright sunlight, lots of relections in the glass, dulls the blacks.... LCDs are brighter and dont reflect the light. Depends where your TV will sit.
The Pioneer are rated as the best plasmas. The latest 2008 models are not yet out (50" is the smallest) and they should be even better, but at a price. The 2008 Panasonics are close to the Pioneer and are probably better value for the money (IMO).
One other point as you're in Australia, plasmas dont like bright sunlight, lots of relections in the glass, dulls the blacks.... LCDs are brighter and dont reflect the light. Depends where your TV will sit.
Thanks rewerb - I'm in no particular rush so I'll go check them all out in a store - and perhaps wait either way for the 2008 models - looks like August is a popular month for new ranges here. Plus I'll try to get hold of the WHF Television guide - not included in my subscription apparently.
Good point regards the reflections - we have several large LCD screens in our office - we're graphic/web designers and moved to Mac Pro's purely on the basis that the new iMacs have glossy screens which is no good for us at all. That said, we do most tv viewing in the evening and with my current 96cm CRT I'm used to pulling the blinds for a sunday afternoon Halo-fest so the sunlights' not really a big problem - thanks for the heads up on that one though.
The store I got my Denon amp from have the Panasonic TH50P700A for under A$3k so I'll put that on my wish list along with the Pioneer and Sony's and sit through a few different DVD's etc to see which come up best - a few scenes from Aliens should sort the men from the boys in the black department and The Matrix should see how they handle motion.
I'm taking my time as I'm extremely fussy and the current CRT set has a fabulous (albeit SD) picture - its just the control system which has been and continues to be a nightmare - Grundig - walk around by a LARGE margin.
Good point regards the reflections - we have several large LCD screens in our office - we're graphic/web designers and moved to Mac Pro's purely on the basis that the new iMacs have glossy screens which is no good for us at all. That said, we do most tv viewing in the evening and with my current 96cm CRT I'm used to pulling the blinds for a sunday afternoon Halo-fest so the sunlights' not really a big problem - thanks for the heads up on that one though.
The store I got my Denon amp from have the Panasonic TH50P700A for under A$3k so I'll put that on my wish list along with the Pioneer and Sony's and sit through a few different DVD's etc to see which come up best - a few scenes from Aliens should sort the men from the boys in the black department and The Matrix should see how they handle motion.
I'm taking my time as I'm extremely fussy and the current CRT set has a fabulous (albeit SD) picture - its just the control system which has been and continues to be a nightmare - Grundig - walk around by a LARGE margin.
If it's any help I have the 42" Pany PZ85 plasma and it's excellent. As far as screen reflections go well my old 32" Pany crt was a hell of a lot worse than my plasma. The Pany's do have an anti reflective coating on the glass. Seems to do a pretty good job.
EDIT: If your after a Pany then try and get this years new models, much improved contrast ratio than last yeras sets. The 700 is an 07 model btw.
EDIT: If your after a Pany then try and get this years new models, much improved contrast ratio than last yeras sets. The 700 is an 07 model btw.
Hi Damien
It's fairly straightforward - at the screen size you're talking about, plasma is your friend. You basically have four choices which I'll list in order of what would be my preference:
1)Pioneer are currently in the process of launching their 9th generation Plasmas. I would definitely recommend you checking out the new 50 inch Kuro, the Full HD PDP-LX5090. It's pricey but will be launching a cheaper price than the outgoing generation and offers blacks that will be five times better than the current generation. If you can afford it, it should be at the top of your list. Nothing else comes close for picture quality.
2) If it's durability and longevity you're looking for, definitely consider a Panasonic commercial panel. The Full HD 50PH10 is an excellent screen and built like a brick. As a commercial panel, it superior to Panasonic's consumer models in both build and picture but you will need to buy additional boards for your inputs.
3) The current 8th HD Ready Pioneer PDP-508XD still outperforms just about every Full HD set except for, unsurprisingly, the Full HD Pioneers. They've come down in price recent to compete with Panasonic's 50 inch models. Excellent with SD and HD.
4) The Full HD 50PZ80 from Panasonic is a decent set and good value. It's not as good with SD as any of the Pioneers but is very good with HD.
Good luck whatever you decide
It's fairly straightforward - at the screen size you're talking about, plasma is your friend. You basically have four choices which I'll list in order of what would be my preference:
1)Pioneer are currently in the process of launching their 9th generation Plasmas. I would definitely recommend you checking out the new 50 inch Kuro, the Full HD PDP-LX5090. It's pricey but will be launching a cheaper price than the outgoing generation and offers blacks that will be five times better than the current generation. If you can afford it, it should be at the top of your list. Nothing else comes close for picture quality.
2) If it's durability and longevity you're looking for, definitely consider a Panasonic commercial panel. The Full HD 50PH10 is an excellent screen and built like a brick. As a commercial panel, it superior to Panasonic's consumer models in both build and picture but you will need to buy additional boards for your inputs.
3) The current 8th HD Ready Pioneer PDP-508XD still outperforms just about every Full HD set except for, unsurprisingly, the Full HD Pioneers. They've come down in price recent to compete with Panasonic's 50 inch models. Excellent with SD and HD.
4) The Full HD 50PZ80 from Panasonic is a decent set and good value. It's not as good with SD as any of the Pioneers but is very good with HD.
Good luck whatever you decide
Thanks Fuzzy / Spice (and the rest). Seems if I want the best (and after the debacle that 6 years with my Grundig CRT has been - I do), then I am definitely going to have to audition the Pioneer PDP508LX - I'm not sure how long til' we get them here but do you all think its worth waiting for the 509? Seems to be November when Pioneer bring the new stuff to Australia - that of course is in non-Olympic years and I know Panasonic have brought up a couple of releases in advance on the strength of the olympics, so who knows.
Also I just found out we're the second country worldwide (for a change) to be getting hold of the Pana DMR-500W BluRay recorder / HDD and it looks great so I could grab that and wait for the tv if necessary.
I have to say I'm surprised at the response here as when I looked at the Sony 52" LCD's in store they looked awesome so with such overwhelming weight of opinion in the favour of plasma here (not one dissenter) I cant wait to get out this weekend and see for myself. It all sounds like excellent advice in direction of what I want too as I have a (very) fussy eye for motion & black/contrast etc and most of you have commented on the superiority of plasma for this.
Thanks again.
Also I just found out we're the second country worldwide (for a change) to be getting hold of the Pana DMR-500W BluRay recorder / HDD and it looks great so I could grab that and wait for the tv if necessary.
I have to say I'm surprised at the response here as when I looked at the Sony 52" LCD's in store they looked awesome so with such overwhelming weight of opinion in the favour of plasma here (not one dissenter) I cant wait to get out this weekend and see for myself. It all sounds like excellent advice in direction of what I want too as I have a (very) fussy eye for motion & black/contrast etc and most of you have commented on the superiority of plasma for this.
Thanks again.
There will also be a Panny 50PZ800, top of the range. Currently out in the US and reviewed on CNET (US site).
Looks to be very close to the Pioneer 508s, better in some areas, but then the Pioneer 509 is not yet out.
Looks to be very close to the Pioneer 508s, better in some areas, but then the Pioneer 509 is not yet out.
Went to see the sets discussed in store yesterday and thankful to say all the advice here was spot on, to the letter. The Panasonic plasma was much better than the Sony LCD - even comparing a 58" last-year pana against a 42" sony (running The Guardian on BluRay) - theoretically should be much sharper right? nowhere near - the Pana was streets ahead and the colour WAY better. Then, we saw the Pioneer LX508 and were astounded - this is a NICE set. Giving all 3 another viewing on Friday in a specialist store's home theatre room, properly set up rather than chain-store floor, to give all a fair crack of the whip, but if what we've seen so far is anything to go by, I cant wait to see the LX509 when it eventually makes it way here either end October or November - gonna be a looooonnnggg wait, lol.
I'd just like to point out for anyone reading this for their own selection that both the Sony and Panasonic models here are last years' kit so my viewing doesnt take the new PZ models or 3500/4000 sony models into account - but then I guess the 508 is Pioneers' last yea model too.
Does anyone here have any experience mixing brands with different equipment using HDMI? I've heard that the CEC controls and deep colour / 24fps is not necessarily guaranteed to work well across brands but have no personal experience of connecting anything with HDMI so I've no idea.
I ask as I'm pretty keen to grab the Panasonic DMR-BW500 bluray recorder - 500Gb HD when it arrives here in a couple of weeks as I think its going to be a long time before Pioneer bring something similar to Australia. I have a Denon AVR4306 amp too so that also goes into the mix,
I'd just like to point out for anyone reading this for their own selection that both the Sony and Panasonic models here are last years' kit so my viewing doesnt take the new PZ models or 3500/4000 sony models into account - but then I guess the 508 is Pioneers' last yea model too.
Does anyone here have any experience mixing brands with different equipment using HDMI? I've heard that the CEC controls and deep colour / 24fps is not necessarily guaranteed to work well across brands but have no personal experience of connecting anything with HDMI so I've no idea.
I ask as I'm pretty keen to grab the Panasonic DMR-BW500 bluray recorder - 500Gb HD when it arrives here in a couple of weeks as I think its going to be a long time before Pioneer bring something similar to Australia. I have a Denon AVR4306 amp too so that also goes into the mix,
Its not easy to tell in store as most don't adjust their sets so LCD's nearly always look brighter and nicer until you get them home and find them too bright and have to adjust them. Its only then you realise that plasma would have given a better picture in many cases.
As for mixing equipment, it shouldn't be a problem but remember the lowest HDMI specification is the one that will dictate what all the equipment runs at.
I have a Pioneer 428XD Kuro HDMi'ed to an Onkyo 605 Receiver HDMi'd to a Denon 1940.
I have no issues - hardest thing about the whole set up was finding how to set the settings for the input channel on the tv so I actually got a picture!
As for mixing equipment, it shouldn't be a problem but remember the lowest HDMI specification is the one that will dictate what all the equipment runs at.
I have a Pioneer 428XD Kuro HDMi'ed to an Onkyo 605 Receiver HDMi'd to a Denon 1940.
I have no issues - hardest thing about the whole set up was finding how to set the settings for the input channel on the tv so I actually got a picture!
[quote user="Damien Buckley"]Does anyone here have any experience mixing brands with different equipment using HDMI? I've heard that the CEC controls and deep colour / 24fps is not necessarily guaranteed to work well across brands but have no personal experience of connecting anything with HDMI so I've no idea.
[/quote]
Deep colour and 24fps should work fine across brands - HDMI CEC is less certain, as each brand seems to use its own slightly different twist on this.
[/quote]
Deep colour and 24fps should work fine across brands - HDMI CEC is less certain, as each brand seems to use its own slightly different twist on this.
Ended up ordering the KRP-600M - it was going to be another 4-5 months to get the 5090 or 6090 in Aust so when I saw the 60" monitor I smacked down the cash ; ) Just waiting for delivery!
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