Pink Floyd Compilation

[manicm]

But I think what people objected to most was the excessive earnestness and humourlessness of DSOTM, which seems to me a fair charge.

So a band is not allowed to change, I maintain this view of DSOTM is cliched and disingenuous. Remember by this time they were 6, SIX years old as a recording band. So after 6 years a band is not allowed to get a bit serious? And believe it or not there is some humour there - if you hear the background dialog, and Money's lyrics are quite funny, intentional or not.

Remember the Beatles only lasted 7 to 8 years as a recording band.

You're clearly biased, that's why you'd obviously pick out Another Brick In The Wall. This was intentional by Roger Waters, due to mismanagement they were nearly broke by 1979. They needed a hit. DSOTM was an intelligent record, and the subsequent Wish You Were Here probably even more so - it was a simultaneous tribute to Barrett and a dark shadow cast upon the recording industry - way long before it became fashionable to do so.

Why don't you read the rest of the lyrics of The Wall, or even The Final Cut - even if you don't agree with the politics. Waters was clearly no fool, and to this day he's still probably the most intelligent and articulate person in mainstream rock.

By 1973 they had long ceased to be a 'cult' band. DSOTM remained in Billboard for a good 15 years or so. It's like saying Thriller was a 'cult' album.

 

[manicm]

Pink Floyd? Cult status?

More like well marketed, mainstream, corporate entities:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums

They certainly did at my school back in the '70s. Sid Barrett was worshipped, and even after him PF managed to persuade quite a few people, with songs like 'Have a Cigar' and 'Welcome to the Machine', that they were sincerely standing up to the music industry. There was reverence aplenty.

And then punk happened and people realized the error of their ways.

Error of their ways? Well the The Wall went on to sell tons. And as I mentioned previously why don't you listen to Animals? The songs Pigs (Three Different Ones) and Sheep were as aggressive and venemous as anything as punk in the day. This irony is really lost on those who dismissed Pink Floyd at this time. Other proggers like Yes were badly stumbling, but in 1977 PF were still peaking commercially.

You talk of 'reverence', yes some fans may have been pompous, but that's no excuse to label the band as such too. And as I said Animals dismissed that notion as complete rubbish. In the mid 70s there were other deadly serious artists too - Neil Young was digging his own black holes into his albums - like On The Beach, an album I love.

If PF didn't become so popular these stupid cliches and stereotypes would not be around.

 

[GeoffreyW]

Steve, I've found that the live "Pulse" album has some very good alternative versions of studio albums, and which I prefer to the album versions, ABITW being one of them. And if you get the DVD version, there's nice lighting effects to watch, too. You might like to compare the different tracks.*music2*

 

[steve_1979]

Steve, I've found that the live "Pulse" album has some very good alternative versions of studio albums, and which I prefer to the album versions, ABITW being one of them. And if you get the DVD version, there's nice lighting effects to watch, too. You might like to compare the different tracks.*music2*

Thanks Geoffrey. I'll check it out.

 

[matt49]

Sounds more like a mass craze than a cult.

Like skateboards were a mass craze in the late 70's early 80's. Or Top Trumps at the same period. Whilst something like Avalon Hill games were more of a cult.

Pink Floyd; mass craze. Roy Harper; cult.

Something that I never figured out at the time, was the marketing hype induced tribalism, where if you were a punk you were supposed to hate prog rock. I've always enjoyed both.

It's like going to a Sisters of Mercy gig in the 80's. Where the Goth thing was all about being an individual, doing your own thing and being different to everyone else. When you went to the gig almost everyone was dressed in black...

I think we're just working with different definitions of the word 'cult'.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm sort of working to this definition: "A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members:" IE cult as in something that has much less of a following than other mainstream alternatives.

You're working to this definition: "A person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society:"

We're both equally right. That's the nature of English language where words like cult do not have a single precise definition.

 

[matt49]

I'm sort of working to this definition: "A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members:" IE cult as in something that has much less of a following than other mainstream alternatives.

You're working to this definition: "A person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society:"

We're both equally right. That's the nature of English language where words like cult do not have a single precise definition.

Agreed, though this was more what I had in mind: "A misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing" (OED). But yes, your point stands.

 

[lindsayt]

Pigs and Sheep as aggressive and venemous as Bodies, God Save the Queen, Anarchy in the UK, Pretty Vacant?

I gave up trying to analyse song lyrics a long time ago. you never know if they are being serious, or ironic, or just being controversial for the sake of it to grab some publicity / notoriety / sales / doing it for a laugh. A prime example of this is the first track of No More Heroes.

 

[matt49]

Pigs and Sheep as aggressive and venemous as Bodies, God Save the Queen, Anarchy in the UK, Pretty Vacant?

I gave up trying to analyse song lyrics a long time ago. you never know if they are being serious, or ironic, or just being controversial for the sake of it to grab some publicity / notoriety / sales / doing it for a laugh. A prime example of this is the first track of No More Heroes.

A really good lyric that complements the music is a thing of beauty, no? It doesn't have to be deep or try too hard: simple words can be wonderful in the right musical context.

 

[jjbomber]

I'm sort of working to this definition: "A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members:" IE cult as in something that has much less of a following than other mainstream alternatives.

You're working to this definition: "A person or thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group or section of society:"

We're both equally right. That's the nature of English language where words like cult do not have a single precise definition.

Surely the first definition is a religious cult. And anyone who thinks Roger Waters is a cult is slightly deaf! *biggrin**biggrin**biggrin*

 

[lindsayt]

They are only definitions quoted from the online Oxford Dictionary. Taking them as the only 2 definitions of the word cult is the same as taking only 2 interpretations of the lyrics of Pigs or Pretty Vacant.

Surely you understand what sort of definitions Matt and I were working to by the context in which we were using the word "cult"?

 

[manicm]

They are only definitions quoted from the online Oxford Dictionary. Taking them as the only 2 definitions of the word cult is the same as taking only 2 interpretations of the lyrics of Pigs or Pretty Vacant.

Surely you understand what sort of definitions Matt and I were working to by the context in which we were using the word "cult"?

Yes I know what they're getting at, but still indulging in being pedantic. DSOTM and The Wall, and their tours were all too popular to be labelled as such. In fact they only started playing stadiums after Animals was released. They were nearly as popular as Zeppelin, so you'd still say 'cult'? I'd actually say Queen was much more of a cult band than they were at that time, BoRap popularity notwithstanding.

 

[manicm]

Pigs and Sheep as aggressive and venemous as Bodies, God Save the Queen, Anarchy in the UK, Pretty Vacant?

What I was getting at that in Animals, they were leaving their proggy, lush tendencies aside. By any rock band measure this was a very caustic, abrasive, aggressive album - musically and lyrically. David Gilmour's guitar was never so aggressive sounding before. And when the hype around punk arrived, the so-called critics overlooked this entirely.

I'm not anti-punk, it had to happen and was great. But it also gave rise to a lot of rubbish in rock journalism.

Grunge sort of passed me by, but in 1994 I would have called Manic Street Preachers a cult band, and The Holy Bible was a cult album - and again, I liked Nirvana and the Seattle scene, but this was just in a class of its own lyrically and otherwise. It had real intellect.