Onkyo 606,PS3 and HD Audio

[admin_exported]

Hi All,

I have been wracking my brain about this for quite some time now and I hope somebody will be able to please assist me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Whenever I play a BD disc with a true HD soundtrack on my PS3,the Linear PCM sound passed to the receiver sounds a lot worse than when I bitstream the standard DD track.Now the True HD soundtrack comes up at 2.0mbps and the DD at 640kbps and yet the DD still sounds a lot better.Do I need to adjust the settings on the Listening Mode Presets on the Onkyo? What settings do most of you set the Listening Modes at? I have ticked all the boxes on the PS3 audio settings and I use the Monster gamelink HDMI cable. It can carry a 1080P signal but not sure if it's compatible with sending the True HD and MA soundtracks to the receiver over PCM.Do I need to change my cable?

I have tried everthing and am now at my wits end.I would greatly appreacite any help.

Thank You.

 

[digigriffin]

I am a new owner of a 606 so don't take this as gospel, but I set the audio from my Blu-ray to "pure audio".

I think this just plays the audio unmolested so hence the 'pure' name in the setting.

You active this with the button on the front left of the reciever, that then shows the blue halo.

IMHO

 

[Anonymous]

I set my Onkyo 875 onto the THD Cinema setting when playing Blue ray on my PS3. This is the setting that brings out the full effects.

Hope that helps.

 

[professorhat]

When you say sounds worse, do you mean your initial impression is it's quieter? If so, I know what you mean, but in actual fact, if you bump up the volume, the sound quality is actually much better (listen out for small effects is my advice - once you hear the difference there, you can begin to notice the improvements on the big sounds).
I was also vexed on my first listen to the Casino Royale soundtrack when listening to Dolby Digital and the uncompressed PCM soundtrack - the Dolby Digital was actually slightly louder at the same volume on the amp. With a bit of perseverance though, I realised volume is relative and the actual detail in the soundtrack was much improved when the volume was turned up a little. The worst I've seen for this on the PS3 so far is the Transformers soundtrack. I had to really whack this one up to get the full benefit on the Dolby TrueHD soundtrack, but once I did - wow!
I've no idea for the reasoning behind this though and would welcome an explanation from anyone with the technical know how!

 

[Anonymous]

The reason why the sound levels seem a bit lower on THX settings is due to the much greater detail (information) on the soundtrack along with the separation given to it.
Instead of being hit by 'a wall of sound' the information is separated onto more paths, eg... voices will be clearer with better texture and background noises and effects will be directional from around the room having greater realism.

With this being the case the volume is set to a comfortable voice sound level, then you get the sudden dramatic impact of explosions etc which gives the excitement to the soundtrack.

On a good AV system (rather than a bad one) one also finds that sounds rather than appearing 'loud' seem instead detailed and enjoyable. ( the wife no longer complains to turn the sound down)
All the above also applies to top notch Hi Fi systems with overweight transformers in the Amp effortlessly driving the musical information to the speakers from a good signal source.
(I will have to dust off my Thornes 160/hadcock GH 242 and start playing my vinyl again!)

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info guys, really appreciate it. I will check it out later this evening when I get home. In fact come to think of it on the Batman Begins and Iron Man BD's the dialogue scenes are quite clear on the True HD soundtrack, it's only during the action scenes that the differences become noticeable.

P.S. Have you noticed the STARK similarties in the screenplay between the Batman Begins and Iron Man movies, it's uncanny.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, and another thing, set your PS3 to bitstream and let your Onkyo do the upscaling. My 875 does the job so much better.

 

[professorhat]

trevor79:Oh, and another thing, set your PS3 to bitstream and let your Onkyo do the upscaling. My 875 does the job so much better.
But the PS3 can't bitstream the HD formats... setting it to bitstream means you're getting standard Dolby Digital / DTS...
EDIT - ah, upscaling... do you mean set it to 576p when watching DVDs?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Prof, you tell the PS3 whether to decode or not using the BD/DVD settings audio out option. Set to bitstream, the amp decodes, this I find gives a much more open sound with greater impact on expolosions etc.

Give it a try.

 

[professorhat]

Honestly, if you're doing this, you're not getting HD audio. The PS3 can't bitstream HD audio, it can only decode it onboard and output as LPCM. So you're basically saying you actually prefer the standard core Dolby Digital / DTS 5.1 mix as this is what you get when you set to bitstream and play an HD audio soundtrack. You can see this if you press Select whilst the movie is playing - it tells you the format it's outputting.

 

[Anonymous]

It seems like Trevor 79 and I have the same problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Setting up the Onkyo/PS3. Thanks go to LAGAVULIN for this.

First ensure you have all the latest firmware up dates.

When setting the PS3's Video & Audio settings in the XBR menu, with the Onkyo 605, all of the audio settings can be 'ticked' except the AAC. Also, if using HDMI, THIS IS ALL YOU WILL NEED to get full bitrate LPCM and Bitsream audio.

Just make sure - in the HDMI audio selection - you select 'BITSTREAM' as your method of output. Even set at this selection, when LPCM for instance, is chosen from the menu of a particular BD, the PS3 will output the full, uncompressed 5.1/7.1 audio track via HDMI; and vice versa, if you were to select the bog standard for example, it would simply send the Bitstream to the Onkyo as well.

On the other hand, if you were to set the HDMI out as "LPCM", ALL your audio would be decoded by the PS3, even & tracks. I've found that the Onky 605/875 will do a vastly improved job over the PS3 in 'decoding', so if you're shelling out £400 on a pretty awesome receiver, let it earn it's keep; the PS3 can handle the visuals

Moreover, depending on your display (and in my case I am fortunate to have a cracking 1080p capable screen), all the video modes (i.e. 480;720;1080i;1080p etc) can be ticked. The Onkyo will simply 'pass-through' the 1080i/1080p etc HDMI image to the screen it is connected to.
Simple as that really

 

[professorhat]

Well, if you want to believe that, that's fine. But I know for a fact it's incorrect.
If you actually try it out and look (i.e. press Select) when you're watching an HD audio soundtrack and using the Bitstream setting, you'll find it isn't sending out a Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio signal, it will either be standard Dolby Digital or DTS. I know for sure because I forgot to change it whilst watching Die Hard last night and wondered why I was only getting standard DTS. It wasn't until I set it back to Linear PCM output that the PS3 actually started exporting the DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack.

 

[Anonymous]

You seem to be missing the point.
There's two ways to process 'Blue Ray,'

1) Let the PS3 do it, then pass it though the AV amp
untouched to the speakers. Sounds OK.

2) To allow the Onkyo to process it (rather than the PS3) you
need to set the PS3 to 'bitstreem', HOWEVER it sends it
undecoded to the Onkyo and the Amp does a much better job of
it! It sounds much better and you are getting all the sound
format off the Blue Ray disc!

If you remember when Casino Royal was launched, many people experimented with the settings to get the most out of the sound track. The way I suggest here is the concenses (which I fully agree with) of the best sound experience.

If you prefer the settings the other way, fine but for many people letting the Onkyo do the processing gives a better presentation.

Another thing, expecting to see the TrueHD indicator light up with input from a PS3.
If you have things configured correctly, you'll get all the benefit of TrueHD, DD+ and DTS-HD with your Onkyo receiver. However, in order to see the TrueHD or DD+ or DTS-HD indicators light on your receiver, the player HAS TO send the undecoded bitstream. Most current players can't do that, but the PS3 can. They decode the bitstream and then send multichannel PCM. Your receiver can't look at the PCM and tell what format it was in originally so it can't turn on the indicator on the front panel, it just simply passes it through.

 

[professorhat]

Honestly, I'm not missing the point, I just can't seem to explain to you that by bitstreaming the signal, you are not getting the HD audio formats as the PS3 can't do this. It can bitstream standard Dolby Digital and DTS, but it can't bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio over HDMI - these have to be decoded onboard. There's been umpteen posts on this forum about it.
If anyone else can help explain, please speak up. In the meantime, I'm going to try and find some official documentation and you might then believe me!

 

[professorhat]

Here we go. Scroll down to the Audio Output Format section at the bottom - point 3 states:
You will be able to choose between [Bitstream] or [Linear PCM].ÿ Contact the manufacturer of your display or AV amplifier (receiver) to determine what your display or AV amplifier (receiver) supports. ??For Blu-ray discs thatÿcan output in Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio you must select Linear PCM as the Audio Output.ÿ Please note that your AV amplifier (receiver) must support Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio.

 

[Anonymous]

I understand your point.
Let me explain further, the PS3 dispite being set on Bitstream will send it PMC to the amp. The THX circuitry will then process it.

You need to tell the PS3 whether to decode or not, using the BD/DVD settings audio out option. Set to bitstream, the amp decodes it, really it does.
Set to PCM, the PS3 decodes it.

Just seen your last post, but SONY don't tell you this, we had to find this out for ourselves!

 

[professorhat]

I give up! Anyone else want to have a go?

 

[Anonymous]

I don't know what your system is, but give it a try, let your ears be the judge and tell me what you think.

PS thanks for the info posted on upgrading the Hard drive in the PS3, excellent.

 

[professorhat]

I don't need to, I already explained that I did this last night - left it on Bitstream, was only getting standard DTS even though I'd selected DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack on the Blu-Ray. Switched to Linear PCM, was getting the proper DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack. And this was clearly superior once I changed it.
It's all running through an Onkyo 905 so I can assure you it's no limitation on my equipment. The PS3 will not bitstream HD audio formats - from what I understand, it's a physical limitation Sony built into it.
Now if you prefer the standard core Dolby Digital / DTS soundtrack being decoded by your Onkyo, that's fine, but you are currently not getting the Dolby TrueHD or Dolby HD Master Audio soundtracks when you do this.
End of discussion now I'm afraid as I can see I'm never going to get this through to you.
EDIT - just re-read this and realised the ending sounds a bit brusque - it's not meant to be, it's just I can only say the same thing a certain number of ways! No offence intended though - just suggest you do some searching on the site for PS3 and HD audio and you will see literally dozens of posts all saying the same thing.

 

[Anonymous]

I originally got the tip off the another site on the Onkyo 875 owners threads.

AVSales are adamant that for the best uncompressed PCM sound reproduction from the PS3 to the 875, the PS3 should be set to bitstream, not PCM.

It works and it is the full Dolby HD Master Audio soundtrack.

The PS3 doesn't output HD audio codecs via bitstream (and supposedly never will either as it apparently uses an HDMI chip that isn't able to do so), however it can decode Dolby TrueHD onboard and send it as PCM via HDMI (and native PCM tracks too obviously). So basically as long as your amp will accept multichannel PCM via HDMI then you will be able to get HD audio from your PS3 from discs that have PCM and/or Dolby TrueHD soundtracks.

I hope this expains things as I see you have a problem about the bitstream setting thing.

All the best

 

[Anonymous]

Hi!

Would have to totally agree with Professor Hat. Trevor:

The PS3 can Bitstream vanilla Dolby Digital (DD) and DTS. Neither are HD sound formats. However, in order to get HD sound from the PS3, one would turn on the PS3's LPCM decoder and not Bitstream as the PS3 is unable to do this with HD sounds. With this on, the PS3 internally decodes Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HR, DTS HD MA (and DD and DTS - basically everything!) and sends it to your LPCM compatible receiver/amp as a PCM (or LPCM) signal via HDMI. You should see on the display of your receiver/amp that it says 'LPCM' when receiving this decoded signal. IF, the PS3 could Bitstream HD sound codecs then the front of your amp would read 'Dolby TrueHD' or 'DTS-HD MA.'

When watching a Blu Ray Disc (BD) in the above mode with HD sound, check the PS3 'on screen display' and you should see a varying, large bitrate (compared to vanilla DD and DTS), with Dolby TrueHD 5.1 or DTS-MA 5.1 beside it on the top right hand side of your screen. So you know that you are getting a decoded HD sound signal.

Switch back to Bitstream on the PS3 and check the on screen display when playing a BD movie. You'll notice the bitrate dropped and static. Thats plain DD or DTS that you are hearing, as mentioned the PS3 cannot send a Bitstream signal of Dolby True HD or DTS-HD MA.

Problems arrive when you read the numbers...DD at 640kbps and DTS at 755kbps sound really, really good and with your amp doing the decoding i'm not surprised that you hear great sound. Its not HD though. The general problem may be a low recording level on HD soundtracks, corrected by turning up the amp volume!

'AVSales are adamant that for the best uncompressed PCM sound reproduction from the PS3 to the 875, the PS3 should be set to bitstream, not PCM.'

The above sounds like the case for when watching regular DVD's, which i agree with. Not the case when you want to hear a HD soundtrack from a BD.

'It works and it is the full Dolby HD Master Audio soundtrack'.

I would be amazed if this is the case, and i am assuming that you are talking about Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA. If you have a PS3 that can Bitstream HD codecs...i want one!

'The PS3 doesn't output HD audio codecs via bitstream (and supposedly never will either as it apparently uses an HDMI chip that isn't able to do so), however it can decode Dolby TrueHD onboard and send it as PCM via HDMI (and native PCM tracks too obviously). So basically as long as your amp will accept multichannel PCM via HDMI then you will be able to get HD audio from your PS3 from discs that have PCM and/or Dolby TrueHD soundtracks.'

This is exactly what Professor Hat and i have tried to explain, which surprised me when you had mentioned this. It appears to be saying the exact opposite of what you have been writing, no?

Kindest regards,

Raihan

 

[Anonymous]

I with the Prof on this one too. With any other BD player I'd set it to bitstream but, the PS3 can't bitstream HD audio so it'd have to be LPCM.

 

[Anonymous]

trevor79:I originally got the tip off the another site on the Onkyo 875 owners threads.

AVSales are adamant that for the best uncompressed PCM sound reproduction from the PS3 to the 875, the PS3 should be set to bitstream, not PCM.

It works and it is the full Dolby HD Master Audio soundtrack.

The PS3 doesn't output HD audio codecs via bitstream (and supposedly never will either as it apparently uses an HDMI chip that isn't able to do so), however it can decode Dolby TrueHD onboard and send it as PCM via HDMI (and native PCM tracks too obviously). So basically as long as your amp will accept multichannel PCM via HDMI then you will be able to get HD audio from your PS3 from discs that have PCM and/or Dolby TrueHD soundtracks.

I hope this expains things as I see you have a problem about the bitstream setting thing.

All the best

Just seen this post.

If you have the settings as stated in your post, then you're neither bitstreaming the audio or allowing the Onk 875 to decode it onboard. This is what the Prof's been trying to say all along

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all, yes I fully understand the point.

However, what we have here is two machines that can process the blue ray sound formats.
The PS3 and the Onkyo.
The Onkyo does a better job of it. If you set the PS3 to LPCM the Onkyo doesn't process anything, it simply passes it through.

However there is a way (which I have been trying to tell you all) of sending it for the Onkyo to process down LPCM. Checking the bitrate tab stops the PS3 doing the work! You will not find any info on this off SONY.

The other forum ref I posted was referring to Casino Royal and other Blue ray releases.

The best thing to do is put away your preconceptions on this, sit down, use your ears and compare. The better your system the bigger difference you will find. Full size speakers with more weight really shine.

Regards