Older Amps

[Terryff]

OK, i did something rash over the weekend, i remembered from years ago that the Kenwood KA3020 SE was a what hi fi award winner and everyone raved about it and, at the time, i could never afford one. So i saw one come up on that lovely auction site and bought it for the princely sum of £15 (where was ebay when i was young and skint). Now the question in anticipation of it arriving is, will it sound better than My current amp, an arcam alpha 2? 

Current set up Arcam alpha 2 amp, Cambridge audio CD5 CD player, Castle Pembroke Speakers plus i have some mission 760i's knocking about. I use a mains conditioner and decent speaker cables. Dual CS505-2 Turntable.

Any opinions would be welcomed, thanks.  

 

[the record spot]

1990s Kenwood gear was no bad thing. I didn't have the 3020, but it won a stack of awards - a great amp in its' day. If you get one for £15 and it's in good condition, I think you've spent £15 well!

 

[Tony_R]

I have found quite a few older amps to sound really good (mostly as good as equivalent kit today) with a few exceptions.

Most of the Technics stuff, whether it be the pre / power combos or just the integrated amps from the late 90's / early 2000 simply cannot much up to a good budget amp such as the Cambridge 340 IMHO. I think the Technics stuff is over rated.

I don't think amplifier design has really changed much over the past 30 years or so. Components have improved, particularly power transistors but that's about all I think.. But most designs still use a similar topology.

So I wouldn't expect an older amp to sound drastically inferior to it's modern counterpart (again with a few exceptions!).

By older I'm particularly referring to most Japanese amps going back 30 years or so.

Tony.

 

[Anonymous]

If the amp is more than 20 years old you will probably have to replace the capacitors.

 

[Terryff]

I guess these two would be not too far apart in age, maybe the arcam a little younger, just wondered about the sound, in truth, whether the kenwoods would be as "good" (yes i know how objective that word is in Hi-Fi circles) or better than the arcam itself.ÿ

Also, hi-jacking my own thread a little, the castle speakers are currently against a wall and i was wondering if i would be better having the away from the wall. As they are front ported, does it matter?

ÿ

 

[Dave_]

that's probably the best £15 you ever have or will spend!

i had a 3020se paired with an alpha 7 cdp back in the 90's and it was a cracking combo. about 6 months ago i dug them out the loft to get my brother started on the hi-fi road, and was amazed at how good they still sounded even by todays standards

 

[Terryff]

Ok, i plugged it all in last night and i have to say i noticed an improvement almost straight away. The bass had more depth and the musics image seemed more defined. I used the Kings of Leon album for reference. I did think at one time that the right channel seemed slightly weaker, but i think that might just have been the mixing in the track. Once christmas is out of the way i am going to start looking to upgrade and wondered, which bit first? I like the idea of an arcam 8 amp/power amp that was posted here before, is this a best first step or should i look at the speakers, un all honesty they are a little TOO big for the room i have them in. It is a long room and i have a sofa against one side wall the speakers facing me on the other. There is only about 6 feet between me and the speakers and they are only six or seven feet apart, against a connecting wall. Hope this makes sense and you can recommend something for me to plan over the xmas break. I guess my initial budget for the fist upgrade will only be 100-150, so i think second user will be order of the day.

ÿ

Current set up Kenwood KA3020 SE, Castle Pembroke speakers, Cambridge Audio CD5. ÿ

 

[JoelSim]

Terryff:

Ok, i plugged it all in last night and i have to say i noticed an improvement almost straight away. The bass had more depth and the musics image seemed more defined. I used the Kings of Leon album for reference. I did think at one time that the right channel seemed slightly weaker, but i think that might just have been the mixing in the track. Once christmas is out of the way i am going to start looking to upgrade and wondered, which bit first? I like the idea of an arcam 8 amp/power amp that was posted here before, is this a best first step or should i look at the speakers, un all honesty they are a little TOO big for the room i have them in. It is a long room and i have a sofa against one side wall the speakers facing me on the other. There is only about 6 feet between me and the speakers and they are only six or seven feet apart, against a connecting wall. Hope this makes sense and you can recommend something for me to plan over the xmas break. I guess my initial budget for the fist upgrade will only be 100-150, so i think second user will be order of the day.

Current set up Kenwood KA3020 SE, Castle Pembroke speakers, Cambridge Audio CD5.

I think only you can answer that question. Do you get a good soundstage or is there not enough room? Are they boomy on the bass or crisp and punchy?

The Arcam 8/8P will sound great and I would think superb through the Castles if there is the room in your room. I'm presuming the speakers have 2 sets of terminals for biamping too (bear in mind you will have to allow for more cable financially, if you want to biamp).

 

[Terryff]

The speakers have only one set of connections. To my untutored ears they sound ok, but perhaps a little too in my face, as it were. Maybe, though, it is a matter of adjusting from the missions i had to these beasties. I appreciate only i can really decide, i am just after alternative suggestions, as i am not as knowledgeable as most people on here seem to be. I guess everyone that embarks on a quest for that "perfect" sound has the same problem, without being able to listen beforehand its like pinning a tail on a black donkey in a dark room.......

But every comment left is appreciated.ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Why the Kings of Leon album? It's probably one of the worst recorded albums I have ever heard! Awful. Awful. Awful.

Anyway, less of the moaning.

The Kenny is very early 90s in its presentation. Classic Jap sound: Deep, strong bass (albeit well controlled), a nice sweet treble, and not much in between. Classic "Rock 'n' Roll" EQed sound. It was comparable to the Pioneer A-400, and although the Pioneer probably pipped it when it was launched, the Kenny was very good still. The good thing about the A-400, was that it had the same good bass and treble and then a nice clean, open, round midrange which was quite a shock compared to the stuff at the same price before it.

What is ironic, was that it was designated the 3020 number...anyone who has heard music before has heard of the NAD 3020, and the Kenny is the complete opposite to that, so if you like the sound of the Kenny, you'll hate the sound of the NAD. The NAD was also much more capable of driving speakers to loud levels even if it was only a 40watter at peak 8ohms. The Kenny tends to mislead you with its sensitive volume control - once you get to 12 o'clock, it starts to go all floppy and loose. However, the NAD would keep on going to silly levels and with its little VU meter, you could tell whether it was clipping or not and the ingenious NAD soft clipping system would protect any silly behavour anyway!

Overall, a nice amp, but not worth more than £50 in today's money.

 

[Anonymous]

Hughes123:

The Kenny is very early 90s in its presentation. Classic Jap sound: Deep, strong bass (albeit well controlled), a nice sweet treble, and not much in between. Classic "Rock 'n' Roll" EQed sound.

I loved your definition!

 

[Anonymous]

Tannoyite:Hughes123:

The Kenny is very early 90s in its presentation. Classic Jap sound: Deep, strong bass (albeit well controlled), a nice sweet treble, and not much in between. Classic "Rock 'n' Roll" EQed sound.

I loved your definition!

Thankyou very much!

 

[russ74]

Nice purchase for £15. I love those rash bargains you get from eBay & if you don't like it or it breaks down the line your not that much out of pocket & may make a profit. My purchases include:Current main amp - Rotel RX-802 receiver in black - £20
Leak 3400 receiver, late 70's model japanese made ironically by Rotel - £29
JVC R-S55L Receiver, early 80's with sliders etc - £12.50
Panasonic SU-2700 complete with matching tuner (glass broken) & Cassette seperates, bought untested but works fine, sadly sitting in a box though - £10Havent yet ventured into cd players (laser issues) or speakers (cigarette smell) yet but the NAD C521BEE is starting to skip more regularly & my MA B2's are great but in beech and as we know walnut or dark oak are cool right now....mmm eBay here we come!Anyhow enjoy the second hand bug.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah...second hand speakers with cigarette smell and tar coloured woofers - the joys!

 

[russ74]

Not so much of a joy in a small room. Not sure I want to remember the good old days of being a smoker.

 

[Terryff]

This is exactly what i need, opinion. I totally agree with Hughes, i got it past twelve o'clock and it sounded......wrong...I stuck the Leon album on because someone had told me it was well produced but you are right it is not well produced at all. I also put on the new guns and roses album and that's not much better to my ears. Great for the excessive bits but little in between. In truth I was considering hooking my Arcam back up (Arcam alpha 2) until I can afford an alpha 8.

I think, also, that this is an old pair of (pretty ugly) speakers and i am expecting much from them, i remember a friend of mine when i was a teenager had some castle which pretty much blew me away, i guess i expected the same from these. One thing i have noticed though, is that the car stereo (which had sounded good up until then) now sounds very poor, so maybe my ears have adjusted to the home hi fi??ÿ

Once again thanks and keep them coming.ÿ

 

[Terryff]

So I guess another question is, if i like the sound of the arcam amp i have and am really not sure if i like the kenwood, bearing in mind i intend to follow advice to buy a alpha 8, is there something that i should consider as an alternative, bearing in mind listening audiotions might be limited/.

 

[the record spot]

Try and find some CDs manufactured by Nimbus or DADC Austria. These often have a slightly superior sound quality but it helps if you can get this with earlier AAD (as opposed to DDD) discs. A lot of the Joni Mitchell range is available in non-remastered format currently; I picked up Hejira, Night Ride Home (title track is excellent for testing) and one other recently. Also, an original "Tommy" (i.e. fatbox 2 CD edition) is good throughout but especially for the bass (ref: Underture on the close of CD1).

Check out the Steve Hoffman site forum for some good suggestions. It can get a bit anal in terms of snobbery and opinions at times, but there's a lot of good suchlike info on there and always somebody on hand to help out. I think you can put up a question at almost any time of the day or night and get an answer fairly soon - thousands of members.

 

[Anonymous]

If you like Guns and Roses and Kings of Leon, then try Metallica's albums, because their stuff is very well produced. The Guns and Roses album "Use your Illusion II" is a very well recorded album too and has some really good songs on it!

Do you know what speakers they are? I have a pair of Aiwa speakers which are absolutly cracking for £50! It's suprising sometimes that speakers are either good, or bad...and often that's regardless of the price!

 

[the record spot]

Metallica: Yes if you're talking an original Black Album, no if you're talking death magnetic. Criminal digital...!

 

[Anonymous]

the record spot:Metallica: Yes if you're talking an original Black Album, no if you're talking death magnetic. Criminal digital...!

Oh yeh - the Black Album is what I meant! The Death Magnetic is so emphasised up the top that it's practically unlistenable!

 

[Terryff]

My speakers? They are Castle Pembrokes on Castle stands, ugly as hell but they chuck out some decent sound.

 

[Terryff]

The Kenwood sounds great but i have noticed that the right hand channel sounds slightly less powerful than the left, any ideas what might be causing this? I guess i should wire my arcam back up to make sure it is the amp, though am sure it was fine before.ÿ

Have put a arcam alpha 7R or a85 on my shopping list as well as audiolab. Not sure of which would be a good cyrus to go for.

Now i have been bitten by the bug am more determined to spend out more on the amp itself as a first initial upgrade.ÿ

 

[Terryff]

....bumping my own thread......

 

[Terryff]

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/lh/photo/0pagM5lCBl3ZKOoY-9DM1gFrom 2008_12_14
Picture of my listening space, to aid in recommendations on new kit or positioning

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