Old vs New

[Vagabond225]

When looking at reviews, and talking to friends who are looking at buying their first seperates system, there are a number of new bits of kit which seem to get good reviews, 'best for the price', and 'excellect sound staging', that kind of thing.

We are talking about fairly entry level HiFi such as the Kef Q300 with the Marantz PM6004, or the Cambridge Audio Azur 651A + Mordaunt-Short Aviano 6.

Each of the 2 setups coming in at just under £1000.

My question -

I have been running an Audiolab 8000A bi-wired with a pair of Linn Keilidh's for a number of years now, and although were considered pretty damn good when they came out, (coming up to 30 years !!), how do they compare with the new, lower end contenders like the examples above.

Also - what kind of money would you be looking at spending in todays world, to match the Audiolab / Linn setup?

Any views on this would be most welcome!

 

[ifor]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure modern budget won't match what you have. I saw an Audiolab 8000a upgrade service available on eBay recently which may be worth considering and you could probably get some sensible advice about the Linns from Wilmslow Audio.

 

[SteveR750]

I'm inclined to agree. Nothing I have heard yet comes close to the Linn LP12 Ittok Asak /Naim/Isobarik that I heard in 1986 in the shop where I bought my 3130 AR18BX and eventually AR EB101 from. Fantastic sound. I first heard it from another room, and for a second wondered if there really was a band playing next door.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm inclined to agree. Nothing I have heard yet comes close to the Linn LP12 Ittok Asak /Naim/Isobarik that I heard in 1986 in the shop where I bought my 3130 AR18BX and eventually AR EB101 from. Fantastic sound. I first heard it from another room, and for a second wondered if there really was a band playing next door.

The same thing happened to me. I bought LP12/Ittok/Asak/Naim, but couldn't afford the Isobariks (which were fantastic). After endless home trials from the likes of Kef (103/3, I think) and Epos ES14, I eventually settled for MA R852 (which are still going strong).

 

[Anonymous]

My first post - apologize for mistakes (english is not my first language)

You can't deny progress - like it or not. Look at progress in technology i.e. computers, cars, televisions.

I know, this days everything is less durable comparing to how it used to be, but still...

Take into consideration new materials, computer aided design, manufacturing costs transferred to China and you will find the anwer to your question.

 

[SteveR750]

My first post - apologize for mistakes (english is not my first language)

You can't deny progress - like it or not. Look at progress in technology i.e. computers, cars, televisions.

I know, this days everything is less durable comparing to how it used to be, but still...

Take into consideration new materials, computer aided design, manufacturing costs transferred to China and you will find the anwer to your question.

Apart from the politcial implications, this is no reason for any degradation in standards; it's all about outsourcing the bits of the business that save money without impacting on quality. Don't think for a minute that the Chinese don't know how to assemble thinge either.

 

[Anonymous]

What I ment - these days the same quality cost less than 30 years ago. Fact.

 

[gregvet]

Take into consideration new materials, computer aided design, manufacturing costs transferred to China and you will find the anwer to your question.

Apart from the politcial implications, this is no reason for any degradation in standards; it's all about outsourcing the bits of the business that save money without impacting on quality. Don't think for a minute that the Chinese don't know how to assemble thinge either.

I think he was saying tho opposite, Chinese manufacturing has allowed higher quality at reduced cost. This along with computer aided design and new materials would potentially have allowed new budget designs to compete with old high end kit.

Im not saying that I agree btw

 

[lindsayt]

My first post - apologize for mistakes (english is not my first language)

You can't deny progress - like it or not. Look at progress in technology i.e. computers, cars, televisions.

I know, this days everything is less durable comparing to how it used to be, but still...

Take into consideration new materials, computer aided design, manufacturing costs transferred to China and you will find the anwer to your question.

Or you could find the answer to your question by going to a dealer to compare new against old. Last year I investigated new: LP12SE with its computer aided designed Keel and Radikal plus the titanium tubed Ekos SE, the computer aided designed Klimax DS, bang up to date Majik Isobariks with £4000 of computer aided designed active power amps and the computer aided designed Klimax pre-amp. How did it compare to my 35 year old dd tt, 38 year old active crossover, my midrange and treble amp based on a 70 year old valve design, 10 year old bass power amp, 45 year old speakers? The modern system sounded a bit less dynamic, a bit less natural and detailed in the midrange and the bass was a lot worse - just not timing at all and making it difficult to differentiate between the bass guitar and kick drums. It's a total non sequitor to say that because computers, cars and tv's have improved in the last 50 years that hi-fi has too. On the evidence of my listening tests hi-fi seems to have gone backwards in terms of ultimate sound quality. Maybe you can come up with a modern system that would demonstrate some sort of sonic progress over the last 30 to 50 years? So far I haven't been able to.

The modern Linn system costs £40000 to £50000. My system with adjustments for inflation would have cost the equivalent of about £30000 in modern terms - and of course with me buying it 2nd hand I bought it for a lot lot less than that.

 

[FennerMachine]

A good old system can sound better than a good new system but it depends on what you want from the system and how you compare prices. New prices vs second hand prices vs inflation adjusted prices.

Some manufacturers offer good servicing for older kit including fitting newer capacitors or other components as part of the servicing. This can make maintaining older kit cost effective and helps keeps up with newer kit without losing the character of older kit.

Same with cars. Older cars can be easier and cheaper to maintain and you can get executive car bargains with masses of kit that newer cheaper cars have only implemented as extras in recent years. A good high end new car will be better than an older car, but at what cost?

 

[SteveR750]

A good old system can sound better than a good new system but it depends on what you want from the system and how you compare prices. New prices vs second hand prices vs inflation adjusted prices.

Some manufacturers offer good servicing for older kit including fitting newer capacitors or other components as part of the servicing. This can make maintaining older kit cost effective and helps keeps up with newer kit without losing the character of older kit.

Same with cars. Older cars can be easier and cheaper to maintain and you can get executive car bargains with masses of kit that newer cheaper cars have only implemented as extras in recent years. A good high end new car will be better than an older car, but at what cost?

Except cars wear out, and hi fi doesnt in anything like the same way, for a start it doesn't need servicing

 

[FennerMachine]

All cars need servicing. All cars wear out parts.

But yes, Hi-Fi parts tend to last longer and need less repairs and servicing.

 

[lindsayt]

I'm inclined to agree. Nothing I have heard yet comes close to the Linn LP12 Ittok Asak /Naim/Isobarik that I heard in 1986 in the shop where I bought my 3130 AR18BX and eventually AR EB101 from. Fantastic sound. I first heard it from another room, and for a second wondered if there really was a band playing next door.

I have an LP12 Ittok Troika / Avondale / Isobarik system. It's a good system. But I strongly prefer the sound of my EMT 930 or 950 / 300b SET valve plus Avondale / Bozak system which sounds more like a live band playing in my home. If the original poster wants to get better sound quality, he's more likely to get it by going on some strange Dr Who timewarp journey where he buys older kit than what he's already got, instead of newer kit.

 

[def lugs]

I don't believe that a new budget system would out perform your audiolab and Linn set up. However I do think you get a lot more performance per pound these days and there may not be a vast delta between the performance of the two systems.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure all listed loudspeakers and amplifiers are worse than your current audio equipment.

If ou are after a real upgrade (a setup considerably better), you'll have to spend more than £2000.

There's no need of replacing your Linn loudspeakers. If I were you, I'd keep them and purchase a higher grade amplifier and source. Moreover, you can modify your loudspeaker by replacing the existing crossover capacitors with Mundorf Supreme, Jantzen, Hovland or ClarityCap. It's a easy task and you can do by yourself if you know how to solder.