New Denon Flagship 13.2!!!

[FunkyMonkey]

A 13.2 Denon flagship is showing at CES. WOW!!!!

https://www.whathifi.com/news/denon-launches-x8500h-132-channel-flagship-av-amplifier

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Yup. Maybe the extra pair of speakers in my media room ceiling will come in handy one day. Not soon, but one day.

Whether one could actually discern a 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 system in a 12 ft x 19
6 ft space is another matter...

 

[newlash09]

With a normal 5.1.4 in DTS neural X mode, I'd rather add seperate power amps for atleast the front 3 speakers in a 9 channel setup, or atleast the ground 5 channels in a 11 channel setup. My marantz SR 6011 is unable to cope with my high volume and slam demands

 

[bigboss]

Yup. Maybe the extra pair of speakers in my media room ceiling will come in handy one day. Not soon, but one day.

Whether one could actually discern a 9.2.4 or 7.2.6 system in a 12 ft x 19
6 ft space is another matter...

You can of course, drive extra speakers in another room.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

^ True, but how many channels in the second room and why not just put in a more basic receiver in the second room? That's what I'm doing.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

With a normal 5.1.4 in DTS neural X mode, I'd rather add seperate power amps for atleast the front 3 speakers in a 9 channel setup, or atleast the ground 5 channels in a 11 channel setup. My marantz SR 6011 is unable to cope with my high volume and slam demands

And your neighbours still like you ?

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Marantz version too it seems.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Newlash:

Invest in an Emotiva XPA Gen 3 modular power amp. Genuine 175 to 200 watts RMS per channel and up to seven channels per unit.

 

[bigboss]

^ True, but how many channels in the second room and why not just put in a more basic receiver in the second room? That's what I'm doing.

It depends on the individual needs. Some may prefer the one box solution.

It has 15 pairs of speaker binding posts. This facilitates the ability to run BOTH a 13ch Auro3D setup and a 13ch (9.1.4 / 7.1.6) Atmos setup without having to ruin positioning for one or the other. Because there are FOUR pairs of height speaker outputs (pre-out and speaker posts), with flexible assignment (including being able to assign Height4 to Front Wide output) you can do a complete Auro3D setup with five heights + VOG and still have another pair of height outputs for Top Middle or Front Wide use with Atmos.

 

[newlash09]

Newlash:

Invest in an Emotiva XPA Gen 3 modular power amp. Genuine 175 to 200 watts RMS per channel and up to seven channels per unit.

I have started looking for power amps already. But the problem is that I messed up my media cabinet design big time. Even my marantz SR 6011 barely fits inside with its bottom feet off. So will be difficult to push in anything bigger than that. I was actually thinking of the d class crown poweramps. As they are small and don't need much space for cooling. Has anyone tried them in a HT setup.

 

[newlash09]

^ True, but how many channels in the second room and why not just put in a more basic receiver in the second room? That's what I'm doing.

It depends on the individual needs. Some may prefer the one box solution.

It has 15 pairs of speaker binding posts. This facilitates the ability to run BOTH a 13ch Auro3D setup and a 13ch (9.1.4 / 7.1.6) Atmos setup without having to ruin positioning for one or the other. Because there are FOUR pairs of height speaker outputs (pre-out and speaker posts), with flexible assignment (including being able to assign Height4 to Front Wide output) you can do a complete Auro3D setup with five heights + VOG and still have another pair of height outputs for Top Middle or Front Wide use with Atmos.

I thought 4 inceiling speakers was the max. What is auro 3D and how many speakers does it need. 9.1.4 sounds crazy plenty. I planned on a 7.2.4 in my small 11x17ft living room. But reduced it to 5.1.4 for aesthetic reasons. I could never go for the auro without ripping apart my ceiling again. But still curious to know

 

[newlash09]

With a normal 5.1.4 in DTS neural X mode, I'd rather add seperate power amps for atleast the front 3 speakers in a 9 channel setup, or atleast the ground 5 channels in a 11 channel setup. My marantz SR 6011 is unable to cope with my high volume and slam demands

And your neighbours still like you ?
[/quot

6 flats on the floor and all vacant. The problem with dts neural X for music in my opinion is that it doesn't sound loud as in 2 channel volume. But saps the amps power big time. Because there is absolutely no distortion with each speaker doing so little the high volume levels go unnoticed. My elevator is about 40 ft from my main door. And when IAM playing something with the door open it is audible inside the elevator as it passes the floor. But I still want more

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I have six in my ceiling already.

I was going for 7.2.2 and I had the builders wire for that. But then I decided to "push it" to 7.2.4. I left the original pair in the ceiling because I couldn't be ahemed to fix the holes that would have been left.

Mystic Smeg has nothing on me....

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Newlash:

Invest in an Emotiva XPA Gen 3 modular power amp. Genuine 175 to 200 watts RMS per channel and up to seven channels per unit.

I have started looking for power amps already. But the problem is that I messed up my media cabinet design big time. Even my marantz SR 6011 barely fits inside with its bottom feet off. So will be difficult to push in anything bigger than that. I was actually thinking of the d class crown poweramps. As they are small and don't need much space for cooling. Has anyone tried them in a HT setup.

I'd really think about modifying your cabinet or getting a new one.

Taking the feet off the bottom of the receiver could cause you problems as the airflow into and under the bottom of the unit could become overly restricted leading to overheating.

As for power amps, I use a cheap Onkyo M-5010 stereo power amp for my back in ceilings. Works fine. I have thought about adding a used Emotiva 3-channel for the front trio, which would give the receiver's power amps more headroom to drive the surrounds. However I don't really need it on my little media room, my 7010 is quite loud enough.

 

[bigboss]

Auro 3D speaker configuration is different to Atmos, especially the "voice of God" speaker. This will allow setting up speakers to satisfy both without compromises.

http://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3718/~/compatibility-of-auro-3d-and-dolby-atmos-speaker-configurations

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

^ If it actually ever appears.

Since Atmos and DTS:X seem to be the frontrunners and the only ones supported by the studios, I have to wonder if it ever will.

Also, I can't see how a single "voice of God" speaker would properly track the Starship Enterprise or whatever flying overhead as well as a .4 (or, now, .6) Atmos setup...

 

[bigboss]

Auro 3D is the oldest format of the 3 (released in 2011). It relies on channel based audio mixing unlike Atmos which is object based.

Speaker arrangements consisting of (up to) thirteen speakers create immersion using layers of sound produced by ear level and wall-bound height channels located in the front, back, and sides of a room, and one centre mounted ceiling channel (Voice of God).

Those who have heard it say that Auro-3D’s audio impact is breathtaking. The codecs use of layered sound around a listening space is beyond immersive and decidedly different than the object-oriented effect generated by Atmos. Auro’s marketing team says its system creates a “sound based hemisphere” of immersion, a notion that is hard to dismiss. It truly ushers a sense of “being there” and hearing sound as if it were in a seamlessly expansive real world environment.

There are many films with Auto 3D but very few blu ray and UHD discs. They lost the race the moment Atmos was pushed into mid range AVRs without any additional fee.

 

[abacus]

The Marantz version was out first with Denon bringing up the rear, although as there owned by the same company it has little relevance.

As to the idea itself, to get in the extra channels something has to give way, and in most cases it is the power supply, which as this is the most important part of any amp, probably means a lack of control. (if you look at most of the really high end products the power supply takes precedence over the number of channels (Although Anthem have a neat trick by providing different output power on different channels thus still leaving room for a meaty power supply)

Personally if you want the best I would not go above 9 channels in a single box, unless you double the size of the box to fit a much bigger power supply. (Go for quality not quantity)

Bill

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

The Marantz is a decoder / preamp only, whereas the Denon version is a full feature receiver (I think).

As you can see from the image (if I can get this to work) it's got outputs (both RCA and balanced) for:

Front Left and Right

Center (sic)

Surround Left and Right

Surround Back Left and Right

Height 1 Left and Right

Height 2 Left and Right

Height 3 Left and Right

Height 4 / Front Wide Left and Right

So that's actually 15 channels, of which I presume you select 13 when you set the thing up or the thing selects the best 13 of 15 for the source material, I don't know which.

Whether anyone will produce 13 channel BDs is another matter. I presume Atmos and DTS:X, so-say being onject-orientated (e.g. Starship Enterprise is an "object" that is encoded into the audio binary and tracked by the Atmos chip, and not simply part of the sound signal ultimately fed to each channel) take care of that.

http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ZoomImage.aspx?img=/Assets/images/products/AV8805/XL_mz_av8805_f_b_re_001_hi_XL.png



BTW if I had a media room worthy of 13 channels and 200 wpc (and / or the money) I too would go for the Marantz and a couple of Emotiva modular power amps.

 

[bigboss]

The Marantz version was out first with Denon bringing up the rear, although as there owned by the same company it has little relevance.

As to the idea itself, to get in the extra channels something has to give way, and in most cases it is the power supply, which as this is the most important part of any amp, probably means a lack of control. (if you look at most of the really high end products the power supply takes precedence over the number of channels (Although Anthem have a neat trick by providing different output power on different channels thus still leaving room for a meaty power supply)

Personally if you want the best I would not go above 9 channels in a single box, unless you double the size of the box to fit a much bigger power supply. (Go for quality not quantity)

Bill

Marantz SR8012 managed to squeeze in a toroidal transformer despite having 11 channels of amplification.

 

[newlash09]

Auro 3D is the oldest format of the 3 (released in 2011). It relies on channel based audio mixing unlike Atmos which is object based.

Speaker arrangements consisting of (up to) thirteen speakers create immersion using layers of sound produced by ear level and wall-bound height channels located in the front, back, and sides of a room, and one centre mounted ceiling channel (Voice of God).

Those who have heard it say that Auro-3D’s audio impact is breathtaking. The codecs use of layered sound around a listening space is beyond immersive and decidedly different than the object-oriented effect generated by Atmos. Auro’s marketing team says its system creates a “sound based hemisphere” of immersion, a notion that is hard to dismiss. It truly ushers a sense of “being there” and hearing sound as if it were in a seamlessly expansive real world environment.

There are many films with Auto 3D but very few blu ray and UHD discs. They lost the race the moment Atmos was pushed into mid range AVRs without any additional fee.

That was a detailed and informative post

 

[newlash09]

Iam presently using the qacoustics concept 40's as fronts. They are placed about a foot from the rear wall, with the ports bunged. The qacoustics have always been smooth and refined performers. A bit laid back if I could call them that. And paired with the warm sounding marantz there is a lack of bite, is what I feel.

So iam considering using my PMC twenty 26 as main fronts. And could use the parasound halo to drive them from the pre outs of the marantz. This would leave more juice in the marantz to drive the remaining speakers, and will also bring more bite and bass slam that iam looking for.

However in my 11x17ft room, with the speakers placed along the long wall with my TV inbetween, I hope I don't loose out on the sound quality of the PMC's. Will give it a swirl on Sunday and see how it pans out.

Has anyone done similar. And any other suggestions I should consider

 

[newlash09]

Newlash:

Invest in an Emotiva XPA Gen 3 modular power amp. Genuine 175 to 200 watts RMS per channel and up to seven channels per unit.

I have started looking for power amps already. But the problem is that I messed up my media cabinet design big time. Even my marantz SR 6011 barely fits inside with its bottom feet off. So will be difficult to push in anything bigger than that. I was actually thinking of the d class crown poweramps. As they are small and don't need much space for cooling. Has anyone tried them in a HT setup.

I'd really think about modifying your cabinet or getting a new one.

Taking the feet off the bottom of the receiver could cause you problems as the airflow into and under the bottom of the unit could become overly restricted leading to overheating.

As for power amps, I use a cheap Onkyo M-5010 stereo power amp for my back in ceilings. Works fine. I have thought about adding a used Emotiva 3-channel for the front trio, which would give the receiver's power amps more headroom to drive the surrounds. However I don't really need it on my little media room, my 7010 is quite loud enough.

Unfortunately I got the media unit made at home and it is a integral part of the wooden column that descends from the ceiling and also mounts the TV. During the design stage, I had left a one foot opening in the media cabinet. So the marantz's bottom mounted fans have unrestricted space for 6 inches below them, but only about a inch above them. If I included the parasound in my HT setup as planned , it would be lying on the floor.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

With a normal 5.1.4 in DTS neural X mode, I'd rather add seperate power amps for atleast the front 3 speakers in a 9 channel setup, or atleast the ground 5 channels in a 11 channel setup. My marantz SR 6011 is unable to cope with my high volume and slam demands

There are, at least in the US, el cheapo power amps that are about the same height as the ancient Audiolab 8000 units from the 90s. Use one or two of those to drive your overheads and or hook up you fronts through your "proper stereo" amp and the 6011 should have plenty of oomph to drive the remains channels. Its all about how much power the power supply can deliver and which internal power amps it goes to, so by bypassing the front (especially) internal power amps, the more "juice" there is available for the surrounds.

 

[newlash09]

And the experience was not exactly very superior. I replaced the concept 40's with the PMC twenty 26's as fronts. But since my parasound amp is with a friend of mine, recalibrated the setup directly wired to the marantz.

Apart from the mid bass being slightly thicker, I couldn't make out any sonic gains. The remaining modest speakers probably added their own distortion to the sound, which could have clouded the sonic superiority of the PMC's over the concept 40's.

So finally considering that the PMC's have more room around them in my dining room, and a better source chain through the chord 2 qute. I have decided on keeping my hifi seperate from the home theatre setup. I could of course keep the same signal chain for music even in the HT setup. But considering that the speaker placement in my HT setup is less optimal than my dining room. I have decided as above. So there ends my experiment

Thanks Balck Sabbath 25 and sir Benedict for your valuable suggestions.

Will see if I can make room for a smaller Stero amp for the front channels, as the parasound is as big as the marantz .