Time for a new belt for my trusty TD160. Seems you can spend anything from £8.49 (it's a belt) to £33 (Origin Live), with stops inbetween at £15-£19 (Thakker, aftermarket but made to original spec) and £23-£25ish (a genuine Thorens belt). So what gives? Not wanting to start a war again, but what does a £33 glorified lacky band do that an £8.49 glorified lacky band does not? It is really worth it?
New belt for TD160, options and opinions?
- Thread starter MajorFubar
- Start date
Gray
Well-known member
My 160 could do with one but, like you, I'm not keen on the silly prices. I tried the best match from CPC...not quite close enough. It was a while ago, but I seem to remember, due to being slightly too tight, it was riding up on the pulley and fouling the inside of the speed change fork (rather than staying nicely within it) I tried to permanently stretch it a bit (but that sort of defeats the object of a new belt of course!) Frustrating.
The quality of belts is probably variable, but I doubt by as much as the price difference would have us believe.
Having said that, any correctly sized new belt would be an improvement on my original.
Sorry I can't help, but maybe someone can.
The quality of belts is probably variable, but I doubt by as much as the price difference would have us believe.
Having said that, any correctly sized new belt would be an improvement on my original.
Sorry I can't help, but maybe someone can.
Ah well, that didn't go too well did it. I appear to be the only person who clicks the 'Active Topics' button on the forum homepage, so if you don't post in the main hifi section you may as well talk to a wall.
Al ears
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Just seen this thread.
It would appear that the Origin Live belt, even though I really rate the company, must be sprinkled with Angel dust to cost that much.
If it were my deck, and considering how often you actually have to change the belt, I would go for the middle ground i.e. the genuine product or possibly the Thakker.
chebby
Well-known member
I tried to post earlier today but I got blocked, strangely only from this thread though? I don't have any experience of this turntable but my thoughts were similar to Al's, go for an OE one.
Al ears said:
Thanks for your thoughts. I guess if it's going to be more durable, stetch less, last longer, then the extra it costs over a regular belt might be justfied. It's the claims for improved sound quality that I'm doubting, but maybe I'm missing the reason why those claims could be justfied.
Gray
Well-known member
You come away with the conclusion that (if it's not the perfect fit) too slack is preferable to too tight.
One supplier / 'expert' mentioned the belt being a critical part of the motor noise isolation - tighter transferring more noise and giving increased bearing wear. Others have the theory that too slack affects the torque and hence the SQ. (One reason high-torque direct drives are favoured by many)
Presumably they're suggesting that the stylus drag on heavily modulated grooves could be an issue.
Personally I'd expect the inertia of the very heavy platter to overcome any such drag. One thing I am sure of - it's not looking good for a sensible price.
You know those big elastic bands the postmen drop on the pavements?......
One supplier / 'expert' mentioned the belt being a critical part of the motor noise isolation - tighter transferring more noise and giving increased bearing wear. Others have the theory that too slack affects the torque and hence the SQ. (One reason high-torque direct drives are favoured by many)
Presumably they're suggesting that the stylus drag on heavily modulated grooves could be an issue.
Personally I'd expect the inertia of the very heavy platter to overcome any such drag. One thing I am sure of - it's not looking good for a sensible price.
You know those big elastic bands the postmen drop on the pavements?......
Al ears
Well-known member
Gray said:
I too would doubt any inertial effects by the belt. When up to speed most platters have the mass to negate any tiny effects of stylus drag.
How they effect any motor noise is a different matter and may not be easy to quantify. The construction and longevity of a belt is what I would be looking at rather than any reference to improved sonics.
BigH
Well-known member
I would look online for reviews, I think I saw a loads of reviews for TT belts for Rega TTs on Vinyl Engine. Benefits seem to more accurate speeds. Anyway certainly for Rega upgrades there were lots of information from users, from memory it was not the most expensive belt that was the best, maybe Edwards Audio but don't quote me on that.
Al ears
Well-known member
Thanks for all your thoughts. Just waiting for payday now and I'll get an order put in for the OE belt. I guess I was really wanting someone to sell the idea of the Origin Live to me because I can't see the benefit of it myself, and although its price is high for a belt, the price is not unachievable if the differences are genuine.
Al ears
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Unfortunately this is one area one cannot 'sell' a benefit to anyone. You'd have to convince yourself it was a beneficial outlay. If they stated their belt would last twice as long as an OE one then it might be a worthwhile purchase. Trying to sell it on subjective sonic improvement might be a whole lot harder to swallow.
Gray
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
Good luck with it. Report back please with how it compares to your original, eg had yours stretched that much?
daytona600
Well-known member
Only thing that can put energy into a turntable is the motor & belt is part of the drive train so do they do matter
any energy/vibration/noise will be transmitted by the belt into the platter/plinth/tonearm/stylus affecting replay
any energy/vibration/noise will be transmitted by the belt into the platter/plinth/tonearm/stylus affecting replay
Gray said:
Certainly will. This belt is about 20 years old and was bought in the mid 90s by me to replace the true original belt which was just as old. I know it's getting past it when changing speed is more miss than hit because the diameter of the belt has strunk as it stretches.
BigH
Well-known member
Al ears said:
Yes I know, just saying some of the after market products are sometimes much better than the original. Anyway could be worth a look on a specialist vinyl/TT website, as seems no one on here has any real ideas. Here is something about Origine: https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81063
Al ears
Well-known member
Ok so I'm an idiot with more money than sense etc etc, I'm fully happy to take it all on the chin, but today I splurged on the Origin Live belt *shok*. Its delivery will be hampered by the easter break no doubt.
But when it comes I'm not just going to tell you my opinion, I'm going to post up an A-B comparison, and if I can, scientifically analyse any differences, showing any effect on rumble, motor noise, dynamic range, and anything else I can realistically measure with the limited tools at my disposal.
But when it comes I'm not just going to tell you my opinion, I'm going to post up an A-B comparison, and if I can, scientifically analyse any differences, showing any effect on rumble, motor noise, dynamic range, and anything else I can realistically measure with the limited tools at my disposal.
Gray
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
...You did it yesterday.
I hope it's at least as good as it needs to be. Will be interesting to hear your conclusions. Expensive though it is, there's plenty worse things you could have spent your money on.
Gray
Well-known member
Completely forgot I started this thread!
If I'm honest I'd can't say I've heard a huge amount of difference, in contrast to some reviews. Probably why I forgot to report much about it here. Certainly no point in the promised A-B comparisons. Possibly pitch stability is fractionally better, and any motor-induced noise transmitted through the belt is pretty much gone, both as result of the belt being slacker. But certainly nothing night and day.
Though I've got my speed-change back, which is a useful plus. Whether the old belt saw 45 or not was a bit hit and miss because often it would fail to ride fully up the pulley when I flicked the speed change. This is caused by the belt stretching over time, so becoming both thinner and narrower. This is mainly as a result of the torque required to get the platters up to speed at every startup. Thorens tried to minimize this on the TD160 by incorporating a slipping clutch on the spindle. But it is largely ineffective because the friction is too great between the inner 'drive' spindle and outer 'driven' spindle, so the latter doesn't ever slip to ease the strain on the belt.
If I'm honest I'd can't say I've heard a huge amount of difference, in contrast to some reviews. Probably why I forgot to report much about it here. Certainly no point in the promised A-B comparisons. Possibly pitch stability is fractionally better, and any motor-induced noise transmitted through the belt is pretty much gone, both as result of the belt being slacker. But certainly nothing night and day.
Though I've got my speed-change back, which is a useful plus. Whether the old belt saw 45 or not was a bit hit and miss because often it would fail to ride fully up the pulley when I flicked the speed change. This is caused by the belt stretching over time, so becoming both thinner and narrower. This is mainly as a result of the torque required to get the platters up to speed at every startup. Thorens tried to minimize this on the TD160 by incorporating a slipping clutch on the spindle. But it is largely ineffective because the friction is too great between the inner 'drive' spindle and outer 'driven' spindle, so the latter doesn't ever slip to ease the strain on the belt.
Gray
Well-known member
A clever idea in theory. I bought my deck new and from day one the clutch never worked properly.
I had a play with the spring and felt pads within it, but it never lived up to its promise . Maybe I'll have another go at modifying it one day, but meantime I always give the platter a helping hand from stop to avoid belt stretch.
At least you didn't have unrealistic expectations of the new belt - with any luck its best quality will be its durability.
I had a play with the spring and felt pads within it, but it never lived up to its promise . Maybe I'll have another go at modifying it one day, but meantime I always give the platter a helping hand from stop to avoid belt stretch.
At least you didn't have unrealistic expectations of the new belt - with any luck its best quality will be its durability.
I've thought about replacing the pulley on mine. There's an ebay seller in Italy making machined aluminium replacements to the original spec, including the clutch mechanism. 50Hz and 60Hz versions are available. My original is thousands of hours old and quite worn. I'd even go as far as saying it's slightly grooved. And obviously I can't just sand it; the speed will go screwy.
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