DocG said:
Hi
I live in Elewijt (Zemst), near Mechelen. I have an audiovision nearby (in Mechelen) and the seller of the speakers also recommended audiomix (in Begijnendijk).
Any other recommendations are welcome! Not a huge fan of audiovision to be honest. Guy recommended Cambridge audio for B&W's in general but I reckon it depends on the specific speaker, not just the brand.
DocG
Well-known member
First of all, do you have any more info on your current Onkyo amplifier? Do you have a manual with the specs?
And do you have the speakers at home already? Can you try the combination with the Onkyo?
And do you have the speakers at home already? Can you try the combination with the Onkyo?
DocG said:
No manual, unfortunately. Got these from my dad years ago, Doubt he still has it.
Already got them hooked up (see post #14) and they do sound great (much better than my old speakers, naturally). I wasn't expecting this kind of a difference with just the new speakers. Mind you that I do listen at reasonable volumes.
So an upgrade will be somewhere in the future, just watned to get some info ahead.
DocG
Well-known member
OK, I see. So you're not looking for a replacement for when the Onkyo dies on you, but an upgrade... It'll be difficult to give specific advise there, cos we have no idea of the Onkyo's qualities.
All I can say now is: do it my way! That is: go and listen to as much gear as possible, of all sorts, and find out what you like (certainly listen to over-budget gear too). With a 90 dB sensitivity and a reasonably benign impedance curve (nominal 8 Ohm, minimum 4.6 Omh -- Google is your friend!
), they shouldn't need behemoth power amps, so you can go for quality over quantity. Though SET-amps (low wattage valve amps, mostly < 15 W) needn't apply.
Arcam, Rotel and (if I'm not mistaken) Bryston are said to pair well with B&W.
But if I were you, I would try some valves (push-pull like Mastersound or Synthesis) and hybrid amps (valve pre + solid state power, like Pathos or Unison Research Unico) too. A good place to start, coming from Mechelen, would be Technology Factory or Hifi Corner, both in Antwerp.
If you set your budget at 1000 EUR max, it would definitely be worth looking second hand and ex-demo too. Usually gives more bang for your buck!
PS: I know Elewijt. I bought an amplifier for my bass guitar from a guy in Elewijt, many moons ago. The amp still goes strong after 20 years (though I don't play very often anymore)...
All I can say now is: do it my way! That is: go and listen to as much gear as possible, of all sorts, and find out what you like (certainly listen to over-budget gear too). With a 90 dB sensitivity and a reasonably benign impedance curve (nominal 8 Ohm, minimum 4.6 Omh -- Google is your friend!
Arcam, Rotel and (if I'm not mistaken) Bryston are said to pair well with B&W.
But if I were you, I would try some valves (push-pull like Mastersound or Synthesis) and hybrid amps (valve pre + solid state power, like Pathos or Unison Research Unico) too. A good place to start, coming from Mechelen, would be Technology Factory or Hifi Corner, both in Antwerp.
If you set your budget at 1000 EUR max, it would definitely be worth looking second hand and ex-demo too. Usually gives more bang for your buck!
PS: I know Elewijt. I bought an amplifier for my bass guitar from a guy in Elewijt, many moons ago. The amp still goes strong after 20 years (though I don't play very often anymore)...
Thanks! I'm looking to use these speakers for both CD and vinyl but also for radio (for my girlfriend), what types of components would you advise from, say, Rotel?
I was thinking about the following setup:
- Rotel RA-1570 amp
- Rotel RCD-1570 CD player
- A cheap Rotel tuner like the R-11 (since functionality doesn't really matter to the missus)
Would I need anything else besides this? Naturally this would be well over my budget (about 2500 euro?) but I'd rather save up for a very good setup that'll last me years to come than just buy a decent setup only to replace it several years later.
- Rotel RA-1570 amp
- Rotel RCD-1570 CD player
- A cheap Rotel tuner like the R-11 (since functionality doesn't really matter to the missus)
Would I need anything else besides this? Naturally this would be well over my budget (about 2500 euro?) but I'd rather save up for a very good setup that'll last me years to come than just buy a decent setup only to replace it several years later.
DocG
Well-known member
Freditor said:
Sorry Fred, I'm afraid I can't help you out here. I'm not a Rotel-connoisseur. Others on the forum might be able to help.
But before you consider spending €2500, go out and listen! There's a lot more (and very different) gear apart from Rotel, Bryston or Arcam. And given the rather amp-friendly speakers you have, the choice is vast!
One more thing: do you need a FM-tuner? I understand your GF listens to the radio, but if you have internet access, there's a huge array of internet radio stations, including all the national stations (VRT, VMMa, NRJ, ...). Unless she likes local stations, of course. Moreover, I heard that the music on most FM-stations is kept on servers in MP3 quality anyway! And who knows how long FM will last before it's replaced by DAB...
So think about it. Maybe a streamer of some sort (or your laptop or pc to start with) can give you/her all the radio that's needed. My wife managed the step no problem (with a Sonos-based system). And of course said streamer gives you so much more than just radio: all your (ripped) music at your fingertips, services like Spotify and the like, ...
Hope I didn't confuse you too much.
Good luck!
DocG said:
Oh, I'm definitely gonna go out and listen before deciding anything! It'll take some time to save up for that kind of equipment anyway (without having to dip into the savings). I'll try to go out and listen to this amp and others as soon as I can, thanks for the tips on stores!
It's just that I keep hearing how Rotel and B&W's are a perfect match, probably also due to the fact that Rotel is owned by B&W.
About the radio thing: she listens to the likes of Radio 1, Nostalgie, Classic 21... Internet radio would be an option but it's a matter of convenience. She'd have to boot up her laptop first. Also, she hates to admit it but she does think the B&W's sound pretty damn good ;-) Also, she's pretty 'old-school' when it comes to things like that. Hell, she still had a 21 inch CRT tv when we met 2,5 years ago!
I don't really mind getting a separate tuner, it just kind of bugs me that it won't fit in terms of aesthetics. Yeah, I know... not really the important thing in hifi. But still... I could get the RDG-1520 but that's way to expensive for something I'll hardly use. I just want my CD, vinyl and mp3-player functionality.
Oh, one more thing: found my model number. I have an Onkyo TX-SV434. Complete specs on page 27 here:
www.manualslib.com/manual/302313/Onkyo-Tx-Sv434.html
DocG
Well-known member
That Onkyo looks like a very decent amp indeed, with 65 "real" wpc in stereo mode. Since your speakers have biwire terminals, you could maybe even biamp them: drive the LF with the front-amps and the HF with the (20 wpc) rear-amps... Might give even better grip and control.
The radio stations you mention are all available over internet too... Indeed, listening to the radio through a laptop is not really convenient, but using a dedicated streamer changes that. You get the station of your choice at the press of a button (once you programmed it, that is). And if you look for an amp with a built-in DAC (there's more and more of those nowadays), the sound quality will hardly vary between the different devices (I use a Sonos Connect, but there are 'full-width alternatives' from Pioneer, Cambridge Audio, Marantz, ...). Same goes for a CDP, by the way: connect it thru coax to a DAC-amp and any CD-transport will do pretty well.
My point being: spend most of your budget on the amp and the speakers, and signifantly less on digital sources (a turntable is a different matter...). So that RA-1570 you mention, could be a good place to start!
Or if you want to keep it all clean and tidy, a Naim Unitilite might be an option. Though I hurry to add that I never heard it with B&W speakers...
The radio stations you mention are all available over internet too... Indeed, listening to the radio through a laptop is not really convenient, but using a dedicated streamer changes that. You get the station of your choice at the press of a button (once you programmed it, that is). And if you look for an amp with a built-in DAC (there's more and more of those nowadays), the sound quality will hardly vary between the different devices (I use a Sonos Connect, but there are 'full-width alternatives' from Pioneer, Cambridge Audio, Marantz, ...). Same goes for a CDP, by the way: connect it thru coax to a DAC-amp and any CD-transport will do pretty well.
My point being: spend most of your budget on the amp and the speakers, and signifantly less on digital sources (a turntable is a different matter...). So that RA-1570 you mention, could be a good place to start!
Or if you want to keep it all clean and tidy, a Naim Unitilite might be an option. Though I hurry to add that I never heard it with B&W speakers...
rainsoothe
Well-known member
DocG said:
1. Rotel and BW usually sound wonderful together, but i'm not sure that ALL BW speakers have the same traits, nor do ALL the Rotels. That's why you really should audition.
2. For that kind of money (2500) I was also gonna suggest Naim Unitilite or Uniti2 (which are brilliant one-box sollutions), with the following warning: as far as I understand, these particular BW speakers are a bit on the bright side (I might be wrong though, I haven't heard them), so an audition is a must, since, for instance, if partnered wrong, the Uniti2 can also sound too bright. But if you have the possibility of auditioning, then defenately audition (at least the Unitilite, which would also mean saving a lot of money compared to Uniti2).
3. IF these BW speakers are bright though, I would suggest auditioning warmer sounding amps, especially the XTZ A100D3 if you can find a dealer. Also, Creek and Nad amps are also known to be warm, so those might be worth auditioning as well as the Rotels.
Thanks again! Hoping to test the RA-1570 and some other amps this weekend.
Another question has arisen: would you recommend XLR cables for this kind of setup?
The speakers are currently on these plastic/rubber type 'nubs' that originally came with them, should I get spikes with support disks for them? They are standing on a tilestone floor.
Another question has arisen: would you recommend XLR cables for this kind of setup?
The speakers are currently on these plastic/rubber type 'nubs' that originally came with them, should I get spikes with support disks for them? They are standing on a tilestone floor.
DocG
Well-known member
Freditor said:
XLR cables could make a difference if both the source and the amp have a balanced topology throughout. But with short lenghts (as one usually uses with hifi), I doubt you would hear the difference. If you want to try it, go to a pro-shop (for studio, DJs etc.) to get one for sensible money. Don't spend big money here, first focus on amp and source(s).
Freditor said:
IMO if B&W made them with 'nubs' and not spikes, they did so with good reason. There are other speaker designers who don't want to use spikes (Guru comes to mind). Then again, I guess it's worth trying, out of curiosity. But I wouldn't expect too much of a difference. And if you hear a difference, I'm not sure it'll be better (probably a little different)...
I've seen some XLR cables at reasonable prices. Distance wouldn't be that long though, about 2 meters per speaker.
Question about the Rotel RDG-1520 (or internet radio's in general): can you use this via wifi? I take it it's possible since you can also stream from your pc wirelessly. Wired wouldn't be an option.
Thanks again for the info, everyone. I'm pretty set on the Rotel RA-1570, RCD-1570 and RDG-1520 combination (though I'm definitely going to audition some other amps as well), will cost me a pretty penny so it will probably be somewhere next year.
Question about the Rotel RDG-1520 (or internet radio's in general): can you use this via wifi? I take it it's possible since you can also stream from your pc wirelessly. Wired wouldn't be an option.
Thanks again for the info, everyone. I'm pretty set on the Rotel RA-1570, RCD-1570 and RDG-1520 combination (though I'm definitely going to audition some other amps as well), will cost me a pretty penny so it will probably be somewhere next year.
DocG
Well-known member
Freditor said:
I think you're mixing things up, Fred. An XLR is an interconnect (IC), which is used between electronic devices (source - amp, source - preamp, preamp - amp, DAC - amp, etc.). Speaker cable is a different matter (unless we talk about the specific situation of active speakers, which have XLR- or RCA-connections, because they have their own amplifier(s) inside). In a 'normal' passive system, longer runs of interconnect are only used for linking a preamp to monobloc amplifiers (i.e. a dedicated power amp for each speaker), which can then be closer to the speakers (thus allowing for shorter speaker cables). If you would go the Rotel-route that you describe, you would need short runs of ICs, problably no longer than 50 cm each.
Freditor said:
If the streamer is wifi-enabled, that is both for stored content and internet radios and -streams. You just have to connect it to your network, and off you go!
Freditor said:
I'm sure these components would look very neat, together. However, in this combo you have three (probably identical) DACs: one in the CDP, one in the streamer and one in the amp. If looks don't matter too much, you could do with another (cheaper) CDP, if you connect it via the digital out. Same goes for the streamer. That would probably not impact the sound, just the looks. Or maybe the RDG-1520 can be used as a preamp (I'm not sure it has a volume controle; it's not that clear on the website. Ask your dealer!), in which case you only need a power amp instead of the RA-1570. And you can still use a cheap(er) disk spinner, digitally connected to the RDG-1520, without appreciable sound degradation...
But that's your choice to make.
(BTW, there's a RDG-1520 in silver on a well-known Belgian second hand site at the moment, for 700 EUR (and maybe room for some haggling) -- I don't know what the recommended retail price is though. And there's an RB-1572 class D power amp too: 2 x 250 W for 650 EUR)...
DocG said:
Dear God... I must have been extremely distracted
I actually did know what XLR cables are, just got my wires crossed (pun intended!)DocG said:
Found it and... that's an outrageous price for second hand since a brand new one is 699 euros:
http://www.botman.com/rotel-rdg1520-zilver.html?utm_source=beslistslimmershoppen&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=beslist&utm_content=default1
Had a chance to test the RA-1570 today on some B&W CM8's (comparable speaker line according to the guy from the store), it sounded superb! Very rich, detailed...
Kinda hard to tell what they would sound like in my own home though. If anyone has any experience with the Rotel RA-1570 on B&W's, feel free to share!
They could also give me a set price, would cost me 200 euro's less if I were to buy the RA-1570 and RCD-1570 there. Was also able to bring down the price of that second hand RDG-1520 to 450 euro's, might purchase that in advance (the amp and cd player will probably have to follow later).
Kinda hard to tell what they would sound like in my own home though. If anyone has any experience with the Rotel RA-1570 on B&W's, feel free to share!
They could also give me a set price, would cost me 200 euro's less if I were to buy the RA-1570 and RCD-1570 there. Was also able to bring down the price of that second hand RDG-1520 to 450 euro's, might purchase that in advance (the amp and cd player will probably have to follow later).
Listened to my Rumours vinyl yesterday and WOW... seems like I can hear all kinds of subtleties I couldn't hear before! Absolutely stunning.
I wonder how much better it can get. Guy from the hifi store said considerably since I'm using an AV receiver now.
I wonder how much better it can get. Guy from the hifi store said considerably since I'm using an AV receiver now.
Lol...
It won't get any better, just different.
If your system is now singing, minor tweaks, playing with speaker placement is all you''ll require now.
Did you get the cdplayer in the end?
Like I always say receivers are far better at doing stereo than most hifi snobs will admit to.
If blind tested many a receiver will surprise.
Enjoy.
It won't get any better, just different.
If your system is now singing, minor tweaks, playing with speaker placement is all you''ll require now.
Did you get the cdplayer in the end?
Like I always say receivers are far better at doing stereo than most hifi snobs will admit to.
If blind tested many a receiver will surprise.
Enjoy.
Freditor said:
Thompsonuxb said:
Well... it could sound amazing to me because I don't know any better yet. I mean, my previous speakers sounded fine to me (though I obviously knew there were better out there) but the difference with the B&W's is night and day.
I would also find it strange that a 15 something year old "budget" receiver (I say budget because it even has those spring loaded connectors for the speakers) with 65 watts per channel could be better than a year old, high range amp with 120 wpc.
DocG
Well-known member
Freditor said:
If you feel like WOW now, there's no reason to rush into a new amp! Savour the current combination!
If you see demoing as a pleasant pastime, like many of us, you should try as many amps as you can, of different sorts (valve or solid state, class A, AB or D, integrated or pre+power, Japanese or British, ...). When in a couple of years, it really starts itching, you'll be well informed to do a next purchase (and you might have a bigger budget by then -- if needed), and the WOW can start all over again...
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