All, I have recently ditched the audiolab transport and dac for NAIM cd5xs to partner nac122x, nap 150x and flatcap 2x with PMC gb1i's. Now, the cd player is described as smooth, all the cables are naim's own din leads and even have the nac 5 speaker cable but, the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.......ok, not with everything but enough with a lot of music. I've even removed the QED qonduit mains hub. I cant complain with the bass, it's enough(I have neighbours) or midrange from the speakers, just a bit too clear at top end. I might consider changing the speakers, they are only 3 months old for a similar priced pair. oddly, the KEF IQ5's seemed a little better at high volumes although it's not often I play this loud so a speaker that copes with high volumes isn't what I need. I think the PMC's are a little weak when played loud but I definately dont want a speaker thats just too thumpy, I did try Spendor a5 before buyimg the pmc, the spendor were great, not bright but, massive bottom end even at low volumes. so, a cross between spendor and pmc would be great. Anyone any ideas on replacement speakers or another magical(cost effective) remedy. perhaps even speaker cable. midrange is still a must?
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NAIM and PMC still just a little too bright!
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Hi, no. haven't tried that.......yet. although I understood that as long as you reverse both then it wouldn't make any difference, thanks though, I'll have a go tomorrow.
Try altering the toe-in on the speakers as that can affect the brightness. Also experiment with moving them closer to the wall Sometimes reinforcing the bass can affect the perception of the treble.
ray sheldon:All, I have recently ditched the audiolab transport and dac for NAIM cd5xs to partner nac122x, nap 150x and flatcap 2x with PMC gb1i's. Now, the cd player is described as smooth, all the cables are naim's own din leads and even have the nac 5 speaker cable but, the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.......ok, not with everything but enough with a lot of music. I've even removed the QED qonduit mains hub. I cant complain with the bass, it's enough(I have neighbours) or midrange from the speakers, just a bit too clear at top end. I might consider changing the speakers, they are only 3 months old for a similar priced pair. oddly, the KEF IQ5's seemed a little better at high volumes although it's not often I play this loud so a speaker that copes with high volumes isn't what I need. I think the PMC's are a little weak when played loud but I definately dont want a speaker thats just too thumpy, I did try Spendor a5 before buyimg the pmc, the spendor were great, not bright but, massive bottom end even at low volumes. so, a cross between spendor and pmc would be great. Anyone any ideas on replacement speakers or another magical(cost effective) remedy. perhaps even speaker cable. midrange is still a must?
You don't mention your room, or how you have your kit placed.
Do you have hard-wood floors? Lots of windows? Minimal furnishings? Open doors?
A room can have a MASSIVE impact on the sound of a system; something as simple as rugs/curtains/bookcases can soften a harsh-sounding system a treat, for example...
You don't mention your room, or how you have your kit placed.
Do you have hard-wood floors? Lots of windows? Minimal furnishings? Open doors?
A room can have a MASSIVE impact on the sound of a system; something as simple as rugs/curtains/bookcases can soften a harsh-sounding system a treat, for example...
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
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ray sheldon: the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.....
This is the stand out sentence for me. This tells me that it's your GB1i's that are the culprit.
Are they close to a side wall? If so, you'll be getting some HF relection off the walls which will exaggerate it. Try toeing them in a little to minimise it.
Also, as mentioned, if you do have laminated floors, a rug placed on the floor around half distance between you and the speaker will cut down on that initial reflection.
This is the stand out sentence for me. This tells me that it's your GB1i's that are the culprit.
Are they close to a side wall? If so, you'll be getting some HF relection off the walls which will exaggerate it. Try toeing them in a little to minimise it.
Also, as mentioned, if you do have laminated floors, a rug placed on the floor around half distance between you and the speaker will cut down on that initial reflection.
FrankHarveyHiFi:
ray sheldon: the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.....
Try yoeing them in a little to minimise it.
hey yo yo get in yo get in, no there not moving
ray sheldon: the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.....
Try yoeing them in a little to minimise it.
hey yo yo get in yo get in, no there not moving
Frank Harvey
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- Jun 27, 2008
- 567
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- 18,890
plastic penguin
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- Apr 28, 2008
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ray sheldon:All, I have recently ditched the audiolab transport and dac for NAIM cd5xs to partner nac122x, nap 150x and flatcap 2x with PMC gb1i's. Now, the cd player is described as smooth, all the cables are naim's own din leads and even have the nac 5 speaker cable but, the brightness I had with the audiolab's and many different speaker cable/interconnects is still there.......ok, not with everything but enough with a lot of music. I've even removed the QED qonduit mains hub. I cant complain with the bass, it's enough(I have neighbours) or midrange from the speakers, just a bit too clear at top end. I might consider changing the speakers, they are only 3 months old for a similar priced pair. oddly, the KEF IQ5's seemed a little better at high volumes although it's not often I play this loud so a speaker that copes with high volumes isn't what I need. I think the PMC's are a little weak when played loud but I definately dont want a speaker thats just too thumpy, I did try Spendor a5 before buyimg the pmc, the spendor were great, not bright but, massive bottom end even at low volumes. so, a cross between spendor and pmc would be great. Anyone any ideas on replacement speakers or another magical(cost effective) remedy. perhaps even speaker cable. midrange is still a must?
Not sure it's the fault of the speakers or amps. I would seriously look at cables before splashing out on speakers - certainly wouldn't replace PMC for Kef...
As Clare mentioned room size, maybe the room acoustics and/or placement is the simple answer.
Not sure it's the fault of the speakers or amps. I would seriously look at cables before splashing out on speakers - certainly wouldn't replace PMC for Kef...
As Clare mentioned room size, maybe the room acoustics and/or placement is the simple answer.
All, thanks for your replies. to answer the positiong room type etc........... speakers are toed in to an equalaterial triangle of the listening position. approx 6 feet all sides. the speakers face a large 4 seater leather settee. the room is carpeted throughout. I have a full height patio door which has vertical full length material blinds(closed at all times to stop passers by from looking in). there are canvas's on the walls. not close to side walls and approx 10 inch from rear wall. Connected to a ring mains that is separate from kitchen. in fact when the system is on, there is more or less nothing else on at all. Perhaps, every thing is still too new, cd player 2 wks, speakers 3 months(without massive use), speaker cable about 3 weeks. come to think of it, a slight reduction in depth too, I mean with vocals. Radioheads exit music from ok computer doesnt have the same depth as when used with audiolab transport and dac(these boxes were 15 yrs old too)! I wasn't thinking of changing to KEF, these PMC's replaced my IQ5's(which in comparison were fantastic for £400)!......... I dont know.
I notice that a lot of "hi-fi" can sound quite dry or flat. When I hear people describe older equipment or tube equipment they talk about richness, warmth, or sometimes bloom which I certainly don't have in my system, however I also wouldn't describe it as bright.
I'm wondering if actually "bright" is the right word, as in the high frequencies are uncomfortable to listen to or overly exaggerated, or if the system is just lacking a little warmth that may have existed in your previous system. It's always difficult to discuss because one mans bright is anothers realistic, fast or detailed.
I'm wondering if actually "bright" is the right word, as in the high frequencies are uncomfortable to listen to or overly exaggerated, or if the system is just lacking a little warmth that may have existed in your previous system. It's always difficult to discuss because one mans bright is anothers realistic, fast or detailed.
Yes, quite right. the cd quality issue has been evident through all the hifi's Ive had over the last few years. And, I guess the same cd's have been annoying with all the different cd players/speakers/amps etc. seemingly record companies do master these discs with certain frequencies boosted to the extreme, I suppose the same problems I have exist with bass too, although treble is nearly always more noticeable.
Ray - I would suggest leaving your system on continuously for a while* and let things continue to run in (leave a CD playing on repeat whenever you can). I reckon after you've got 200 hours on everything then things will sound a fair bit different. I think the sound you have then should be the starting point for any experimentation with positioning.
*Naim say it in the manual, "XX will perform at it's best when left on for extended periods of time" (or words to that effect). Some people might say it's not going to make much difference, but the manufacturer of a piece of kit ought to know what they're talking about, and my own and others' experience bears this out. My amp sounds a great deal better when it's been switched on for at least 48 hours.
*Naim say it in the manual, "XX will perform at it's best when left on for extended periods of time" (or words to that effect). Some people might say it's not going to make much difference, but the manufacturer of a piece of kit ought to know what they're talking about, and my own and others' experience bears this out. My amp sounds a great deal better when it's been switched on for at least 48 hours.
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