LX75 speaker match MA RX6AV - Tannoy Revolution - MA Apex

[admin_exported]

After extensive browsing on the forums and web I’m still not fully convinced about the most ideal setup for my HT, with the budget I have in mind, roughly 2,5~2,8k euro

The room my HT is sort of L~U shaped. Roughly 3,6m W x 7m D with the sofa 3,2m from the wall/tv/fronts. The room is about 60m2 in total, and 2,6m high. A picture of the ground plan is included below.

I’ve had the fortune of obtaining a Pioneer LX 75 at a large discount. It’s up and running now and on my old set it’s already a massive improvement, but obviously I’d like to complete the setup with a new speaker package.

My choices have been narrowed down to the following, sound/looks wise:

Monitor Audio RX6AV


Monitor Audio RX6 front / centre / RX1 or 2 rear and the RXW12 sub. Tested them with the Pioneer 2021 (due to the shop not having a LX75 on stock at the time) . I’m very pleased with the sound however the centre especially is rather big, there will only be like 10 cm between the centre and the tv, which will look a bit stacked.

Tannoy Revolution


So another option for a more gentle speaker package could be the Tannoy Revolution set, consisting of the DC6T or DC4T fronts, centre and DC6 or DC4 rear and a separate sub (suggestions?). Also adding dipoles or so later on will be more of a challenge as its not part of the Revolution series. I auditioned them and I already was quite impressed with the sound from the DC4T let alone the DC6T. The 4s are a bit smaller compared to the MA and the centre is a lot more subtle in appearance.

Monitor Audio Apex

The 3rd option would be the Monitor Audio Apex 5.1 with either the RX12 sub or PV1D, sadly I can’t get an audition at any of the stores nearby... From what I’ve read on the Apex club topic the LX 75 is a very good match for the Apex and I must say I do like the looks of the satellites, however I’m a bit hesitant whether they can handle the shape and size of the room. My local dealer is hesitant whether they can handle the space....

I dismissed the B&W MT60 as the Apex are supposed to be far superior. Kef Q are a bit too bulky to my taste. Other options are more then welcome ofcourse as long as they stay within budget

I will be using the set mainly for movies and series/tv. Music is less important, however from what I read either set should be able to handle music rather well. My only problem is I can’t audition them at the same time to see how they compare. Separately both the Tannoy and the Monitor Audio sounded great but with a week in between its hard to compare.

In terms of looks I’m leaning more towards the Apex, especially with the option to add front high or surround later on, if the MA Apex can handle the space that would be an ideal choice. The RX6AV set also offers the same flexibility but is a bit more out there, though they do look great in black ash or white gloss.

 

[Anonymous]

forgot to add the plan:

 

[RickyDeg]

Hello Laurijs :wave:

All are great speaker systems! From my point of view the Tannoys may have a slight edge in terms of design. Tricky situation for you, but exciting nonetheless! Naturally, since I am an owner of Apex I would gladly recommend taking this system into serious consideration. The space of the room I see as less of a 'problem' actually because I've heard Apex in large to medium and smaller rooms (dealers and domestic) and I must say they do make the most of each (even tricky rooms). Placement is still important though and will have an effect on the end result (as with all speakers).

They are not like most other sub/sat systems in that they have this ability of creating a really rich soundstage that is broad, deep and dimentional (with the 'right' kit to drive them that is - they grow with top gear!). Thus they are quite good at filling larger areas but at the same time not overpowering for smaller ones (like my livingroom, for example). Also, like you mentioned, you may want to add front heights/wides or rear surrounds later and Apex will make that easier for you due to their compact size and flexibility. Naturally you'll then fill the room even more.

Since you intend to use the speakers mostly for movies/tv I'll even go as far as saying that Apex would be the better choice of the three you mentioned. Simply because it is such an ideal combination of speakers and because movies are mixed and recorded using sub/sat systems. The advantage of using identical satellites (or near-identical: A40 vs A10) crossed over at 80Hz and using a capable subwoofer can be benificial compared to mixing floorstanding speakers with smaller centerspeakers and surrounds. With Apex every speaker is pulling in the same direction, so-to-speak, making soundtrack reproduction very coherent. No speaker is fighting for attention over the other. Needless to say those bigger speaker packages might offer you more 'weight' and volume, plus be better for 2-channel (music), but that is a tradeoff you'd have to make.

I've not had any luck personally with mixing Pioneer + Apex (having tested both the LX83 and LX85 at home) but many swear by them so it's personal preference. Although, I'd strongly suggest considering the matching Apex AW-12 subwoofer if you choose to go for this package. That subwoofer is the "crown jewel" of the system as far as I'm concerned (I have two of them) and integrates exceptionally well with the satellites (looks and sound!). They play as a team.

 

[ric71]

I too would reccomend the Apex. They won't have any problem filling that space. Don't however scrimp on the subwoofer. I run a Paradigm Studio Sub15 and they intergrate perfectly. As Ricky said the Apex give even better performance with higher end electronics. I am running mine through an Anthem Statement A5 power amp and they sound incredible. Sub/sat is my preferred choice for both movies and music as they are so quick and accurate. As stated you can easily add to the Apex in the future by going 7.1/front height/wide etc and the Apex will blend with one another seamlessly, even add more subs!!!

 

[ellisdj]

The Apex are excellent speakers I will add to whats already stated - however they are not without flaw, but for the money they are excellent. They suit av amp setups - designed for the purpose where as floorstanders etc are designed as stand alone and then incorporaterd into a av system after - well thats how it appears.

They are fast, punchy and dynamic sounding - excellent for films and tv if you like a lively upfront sound - who doesnt.

You dont need big speakers to get big sound if thats what your worried about - just make sure your sub is in phase

I on other hand think they work very well with Pioneer amplification LX83 as the digital amps are clear, fast and drives them really well - I have listened to a system of apex 5 and BK XLS400 sub a lot with an LX83 - its an excellent combo setup properly.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the extensive feedback, starting to look more and more like the Apex will be the set of choice I'll make sure to have an audition with the LX to be sure they live up to expectations!

Great looking setup btw RickyDeg, a 2nd sub would be an interesting upgrade indeed!

I'll check out the Paradigm and BK subs aswel, good to hear they match up well, more options to consider

cheers

 

[richardw42]

One thing you might consider. A heavy(ish) curtain across the room to zone off the watching position, just pull it across for serious watching that way you've effectively got a regular shaped more manageable space.

How far apart will the front speakers be ? It might be ok to go without a centre but this would be personal preference and need trialling, if you do go with a Centre personally the closer to the tv the better.

Would you consider a stand mounter like the GX100, unless you have a vast space I think stand mounts + sub can sound better than floorstanders for HC. Also they do two centres in the GX range, the GXC350 or smaller GXC150.

 

[RickyDeg]

Thanks all for the extensive feedback, starting to look more and more like the Apex will be the set of choice I'll make sure to have an audition with the LX to be sure they live up to expectations!

Great looking setup btw RickyDeg, a 2nd sub would be an interesting upgrade indeed!

I'll check out the Paradigm and BK subs aswel, good to hear they match up well, more options to consider

cheers

Thank you Laurijs for having a peek at my set-up and the nice compliment!

Definitely audition Pioneer first before making any decisions. I happen to have personal preference for Audyssey (featured in brands such as Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, NAD, Integra etc) as I think it brings out amazing things with Apex which I never managed to get with Pioneer and it's MCACC. But some seem to like it. Let your ears decide.

Let us know what you choose and how things work out!

 

[ellisdj]

Thanks all for the extensive feedback, starting to look more and more like the Apex will be the set of choice I'll make sure to have an audition with the LX to be sure they live up to expectations!

Great looking setup btw RickyDeg, a 2nd sub would be an interesting upgrade indeed!

I'll check out the Paradigm and BK subs aswel, good to hear they match up well, more options to consider

cheers

Thank you Laurijs for having a peek at my set-up and the nice compliment!

Definitely audition Pioneer first before making any decisions. I happen to have personal preference for Audyssey (featured in brands such as Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, NAD, Integra etc) as I think it brings out amazing things with Apex which I never managed to get with Pioneer and it's MCACC. But some seem to like it. Let your ears decide.

Let us know what you choose and how things work out!

By my understanding of Audessy it has more freq bands on its eq than MCCAC and also eqs the sub - very important in untreated listening rooms

Therefore if there are problem freq's caused by the room acoustics then Audessy may be able to tame them better than MCCAC as it has more bands to use - this maybe why you prefer it based on your room - especially looking at your pics acoustic nightmare wood floor, flat walls and windows in the back - hardly no sound absoption and all reflective, especially the glass - looks very nice though

This would also be why What HiFI claim the Pioneer range to be best - they need none to minimal processing in their professionally treated listening rooms and base their opinions on sound quality unprocessed / no eq'd - where the Pioneer dacs / amps provide the best in class sound

Audessey also eqs the sub by my knowledge again maybe why you prefer it to MCCAC as MCCAC hardly touches the sub - it has only 3 sub filters only.

However if you have a sub setup well in the right place in the room - with something like an anitmode to sort out the problem freq's and flatten the reposnse - then MCCAC as I mentioned in another thread recently will do an oustanding job given your room acoustics and will sound quite fantastic / class leading for films / tv

 

[ellisdj]

Interesting read for people on Audessey and what room correction does in general

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour

 

[RickyDeg]

All valid points ellisdj

As my own listeningroom is also the livingroom acoustic treatment is tricky to implement. I aim on keeping that clean minimalistic look that I prefer. But the huge rug on the wooden floor, the fabric sofa and the curtains have contributed more to acoustics than I thought they would. I'm sure in the right circumstance Pioneer and MCACC could do a fabulous job, just like you point out, and for some people it works. It's very true that an acoustically ideal room can do wonders for sound reproduction, possibly more than any other tweak or electronic upgrade could infact, but few of us have that kind of room. For me Audyssey have pretty much transformed the way I enjoy movie soundtracks these days.

In terms of the Pioneer it's not just the calibration and EQ itself though, it also has to do with the character and processing between, say, Pioneer and my current Denon that differs quite alot and I happen to prefer the latter. That's not to say I haven't given Pioneer and MCACC a fair shot because over the years I've tried AX5i, LX83 and recently the LX85, all three with different speakers and in completely different apartments/surroundings but they've never won me over.

In terms of Audyssey there is another feature at play apart from MultEQ calibration, and one that I believe makes a huge difference for me - Dynamic EQ, which the Pioneer does not have. It evens out the sounds of all channels at the level I ususally play at. Balance, presence, soundstage and 'weight' of the sound is miles apart from what I ever get with Pioneer, but without sounding artificial or overblown. This advanced loudness feature corrects the frequency response and surround volume moment-by-moment and do things to the overall audio that I have never heard from any other system to date. When I recently tested the more advanced MultEQ XT32 in the Onkyo TX-NR5009 I was even more impressed with Dynamic EQ as it was so effective that turning it off made the whole soundstage collapse and almost sound like the Pioneer's had done. Just my two cents.

 

[ellisdj]

Audessey is known as the best eq software system by my knowldge, used in most good cinemas etc and that system wont come cheap - obviously bulk buying power aside is still an outsourced product.

Therefore my fear with products using it is that there are cost compromises made to incorporate audessey into their kit and still keep the manufacturing cost within its limit to make good profit. Thats doesnt mean the end result will be any worse be it does lead to why Pioneer have won so many What Hifi awards - mentioned before about how they test them

Pioneer uses its own platform and therefore their manufacturing budget is spent elsewhere on the amps - something to consider - irrelevant if you have a preference. Anthem is the same

Sometimes I would like to visit peoples homes and setup their Pioneer Amps for them just to make sure they are hearing the best from it and see if their opinion is still the same - its not 100% straight forward to do it and the manual is usless is why I say it.

Room acoustics is something that owning the LX83 has made me very aware of after looking at freq response graphs and after listening to a system at What HiFI has opened my eyes, ears and mind to what good sound is and the impact of a treated room.

My cousin has got me into using REW to see what my room does to the sound and to see what bass reposne I get - now theres an eye opener for you

 

[RickyDeg]

Cool ellisdj - [/b]you are more than welcome to my home with a Pioneer amp to see what can be done! (then again it still won't have Dynamic EQ) :rofl: Infact, after having the same lackluster result when testing Anthem MRX700 I wondered if getting a professional installation/calibration would have been better, but sadly that particular dealer did not offer such services so it was not an option. I have however an Audyssey installer in my area who will calibrate my set-up with MultEQ Pro. I will wait until I get a new amp/processor with XT32 though. Should be interesting.

Anyhoo, I hope the OP has better luck with his potential Pioneer and MCACC. I know several people who absolutely love the Pioneer and what it brings to the table in their systems. Personal preference, point of reference and expectations play a big part here.

 

[ellisdj]

I would to like to hear the anthem MRX700 and have a play with its ARC - to see how it all works the results - you are lucky to have demo'd a lot of kit. Do you still have your speakers on the cabinet or have you moved them to dedicated stands - I think they would perform better off of that cabinet?

I know one of the dealers on here uses an Onkyo Processor with a seperate power amp - he felt that was the next step on to a Pioneer single box solution

That seems a great route to go to get Audessey into the system but then back it up with some high quality amplification - expensive option but the best route - pre / power. Its the space needed for it as well - av racks are not big enough generally and the really big nes are ugly.

It also gives variety of choice with the power amplification depending on taste Bryston, Krell, Anthem, Arcam all can be picked up used for good prices or new if funds allow.

I wonder if the Onkyo processors are good for stereo - or would they hinder the stereo performance from a high end amplifier -- question I know some lucky owner can answer for me please??

 

[RickyDeg]

Anthem MRX receivers are interesting, much due to their scaled-down approach and concentration on pure performance over massive amounts of features. Had it kicked my Denon off the curb performance-wise I gladly would have switched to it. You having great knowledge about calibrations/EQ's would enjoy ARC. I was meticulously careful running the many calibrations, yet never got a pleasing end-result that wowed me. Did very little tweaking afterwards though.

Good point about my front pair of satellites! It is a compromise having them placed that low ontop the a/v cabinet. All speakers at ear-height is always ideal, but in my case it's not an option unless I can't have the center at the same height, and naturally that won't work. Aesthetic reasons play a part here but the upside is the front "wall" of sound is very unified when all three speakers are aligned on equal plane - there is no "break-up" between Front L + C + Front R due to different vertical placement. Funny enough, I actually perfer it this way.

If I go the separates route myself possibly an Integra processor would be interesting, and a NuForce MCH amplifier (for their efficiency, power and compact size). In terms of the Onkyo with music (although I had the receiver) you can read my personal verdict in my system thread if you wish. For me the music performance was the one thing I found somewhat of a let-down. But other than that I was impressed. Partially thanks to the inclusion of Audyssey, of course, hehe.

 

[ellisdj]

Anthem MRX receivers are interesting, much due to their scaled-down approach and concentration on pure performance over massive amounts of features. Had it kicked my Denon off the curb performance-wise I gladly would have switched to it. You having great knowledge about calibrations/EQ's would enjoy ARC. I was meticulously careful running the many calibrations, yet never got a pleasing end-result that wowed me. Did very little tweaking afterwards though.

Good point about my front pair of satellites! It is a compromise having them placed that low ontop the a/v cabinet. All speakers at ear-height is always ideal, but in my case it's not an option unless I can't have the center at the same height, and naturally that won't work. Aesthetic reasons play a part here but the upside is the front "wall" of sound is very unified when all three speakers are aligned on equal plane - there is no "break-up" between Front L + C + Front R due to different vertical placement. Funny enough, I actually perfer it this way.

If I go the separates route myself possibly an Integra processor would be interesting, and a NuForce MCH amplifier (for their efficiency, power and compact size). In terms of the Onkyo with music (although I had the receiver) you can read my personal verdict in my system thread if you wish. For me the music performance was the one thing I found somewhat of a let-down. But other than that I was impressed. Partially thanks to the inclusion of Audyssey, of course, hehe.

I am surpirsed you have not put the TV on the wall, then the centre below and speakers left and right, that would be a little higher but you cant tilt them on the stand so your ears would be on axis and the cenrte stage would be pretty much on level with you

You could also get away with a few acoustic panels in there to asborb some of the sound - home made or from someone like GIK - they do a brilliant White

 

[ellisdj]

I have always gawked at people who have their TV's high up on a wall above a fire place or similar and thought that is silly, how can you watch that.

I am often proven wrong in life - my cousing put his 50 panny on the wall quite high up, so that my eyes are under half way up the screen witha slight angle down

Now thats a bit too high for me, however once you are used to watching it like that it does give the image a different sense of depth and drama - more film / cinema like and when I got back to watch my screen lower it felt off at first - I then straight away raised my tv to the top of the stand Atacam Equinox AVI.

Its only when you experience other things does it make you second guess what you thought was 100% right - well it does with me - picture, sound all the same. Listening to the system at what hifi done it for me - I am in the process of more room layout changes and acoustic panel design / making.

The more you read up about it - the more it makes sense - much more sense than digital eq which is the next best thing for sure, especially in the bass.

I am hoping to combine both to get somewhere close to what I heard in the what hifi demo room.

There is a sig on another forum I use that I like - Open Mind Open Ears

 

[RickyDeg]

Good idea about acoustic panels ellisdj[/b]! Although a bit reluctant due to aesthetics I have actually looked at a few before, but never gotten around to it. The livingroom is still a work-in-progress since I moved just last fall so we'll see. Your points about room treatment is still dead-on!

I don't like wall-mounting TV's or speakers on walls so that's not an option. The height of the TV itself is now pretty darn perfect for viewing purposes though, and the front "wall" of sound is not as low as one might think by viewing the pictures - the soundstage is actually quite tall and wide (Apex are good at that). But again, it is somewhat of a compromise nonetheless.

 

[RickyDeg]

"Its only when you experience other things does it make you second guess what you thought was 100% right"

+1

In general I do tend to agree with that. Darn those stubborn preferences!

 

[Anonymous]

One thing you might consider. A heavy(ish) curtain across the room to zone off the watching position, just pull it across for serious watching that way you've effectively got a regular shaped more manageable space.

How far apart will the front speakers be ? It might be ok to go without a centre but this would be personal preference and need trialling, if you do go with a Centre personally the closer to the tv the better.

Would you consider a stand mounter like the GX100, unless you have a vast space I think stand mounts + sub can sound better than floorstanders for HC. Also they do two centres in the GX range, the GXC350 or smaller GXC150.

A curtain could be an option indeed, on my current set I can't say i'm experiencing a lot of "sound loss" so to say but worth to keep in mind. There's not a whole lot of light coming in from the outside normally so no heavy curtains on the windows to dampen the sound. Floor is a rather flat carpet so not much issue there either. The front's are about 2,6m apart, a bit to far i reckon to go without a centre.

The GX serie is indeed lovely but I'm affraid it'll be well above budget for 5.1... For the RX I already had to stretch my budget

I don't think stand mounts will work in the room, my interior is rather minimalistic with 30's~60's modern design classics and imho a more basic approach with floor standers or small floating speakers like the Apex will work better With more space between the audio cabinet and speakers it can work but its a bit too packed for stands, maybe in a next appartment

Thanks for the input!

 

[Anonymous]

After another round of testing I decided to go for the Apex, they are great indeed! I really love the looks and the fact they're rather small and therefore much easier to position.

Sadly though in the meantime my LX75 died on me so I'll have to wait untill a solution is found for that (hopefully something in the lines of a LX76 offer ) If it's going to be a refund I will have another listening session with the Denon and Onkyo aswel as I can see Audyssey could be rather helpfull in regards to the sub.

In that line, the Yamaha 2010 was an option aswel with the RX earlier. Any idea how Yamaha's YPAO system compares to Audyssey?

 

[RickyDeg]

After another round of testing I decided to go for the Apex, they are great indeed! I really love the looks and the fact they're rather small and therefore much easier to position.

Sadly though in the meantime my LX75 died on me so I'll have to wait untill a solution is found for that (hopefully something in the lines of a LX76 offer ) If it's going to be a refund I will have another listening session with the Denon and Onkyo aswel as I can see Audyssey could be rather helpfull in regards to the sub.

In that line, the Yamaha 2010 was an option aswel with the RX earlier. Any idea how Yamaha's YPAO system compares to Audyssey?

Excellent choice Laurijs! :clap: Naturally, as an Apex owner I'm glad you went this route. I kinda had a feeling you would. Please come join us over at The Apex Club thread and feel free to post some photos of your set-up once installed. Rest assured, we'd love to see it!

Really it's too sad about your Pioneer. I don't know what's happening but recently I've had a close friend subjected to the same issue with his new (LX85) receiver and I've read recent similar reports by other owners across the web aswell. Likely just coincidences, but a little spooky nonetheless. But hey, it's electronics - anything can and does indeed happen. I hear many people dig Yamaha and YPAO with Apex, I've yet to test that combo myself. I have written about my experience of Audyssey over at The Apex Club thread however. Again, it's a matter of preference, but I love it. One very important factor that I think people often forget, is a function included in Audyssey called 'Dynamic EQ' - an advanced loudness feature that none of the other competing calibration and EQ-systems offer (not to be confused with 'Dynamic Volume'!). In my room, at the volume I play at it is an impeccable feature that brings wonderful overall balance to the entire soundstage.

Read more about it here if you wish: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-eq

Best of luck with your installation & congrats again to a great choice!