Low frequencies

[Cycleman]

Hello to all.

Well i am confused about my system 2 years now.I catch myself to turn the bass from the amp to the maximum.I thing the problem is that i don't have so much lows.

My system is nad 326bee,b&w 685 s2 and ifi micro with iusb nano 3.0.I try another cables but nothing. I don't know if the amp is the problem....but when i play with cd player i like the sound that i take,good bass but not too punchy.With my dac i don't have so good sound in the other hand everybody says the ifi have good lows.....Many friends say to me that the problem isn't from the dac, but my amp is small so it can't move the bass.Also i try the ifi in 3 different systems and i didn't like the result at all and i try to the same systems with cd player and was ok.i am not 100% sure for that because i am not experience in sound...so i need help.

If somebody have the ifi plz inform me.It will be a good help for me.I don't know if i will change dac then i will have much better sound. Somebody tell me that i will not notice any difference if i go to teac 503. i don't want to change dac and after that still have the same sound.

Thanx

 

[expat_mike]

Does your DAC have a headphone output, that you could use to test what sort of sound the DAC produces?

The 326bee is supposed to be strong on the bass, so i would be surprised if the amp was the weak point.

I do wonder if the real issue is your expectations? Maybe your system is reproducing the music with great neutrality and fidelity, but you prefer music with the bass boosted to the point where plates and cups vibrate on nearby tables.

 

[lindsayt]

It's a physical impossibility that you will get good bass from your b&w 685 s2 speakers.

A 6.5" driver in a small ported speaker cannot produce good bass.

 

[Cycleman]

thanx a lot....if the 6.5 is small then which size have good bass?!

 

[ID.]

I'm going to sit on the fence and say all of the above. The s2 aren't as bassy as their predecessors, but I think there may also be problems with what a standmounted speaker can provide and your expectations. They should still be able to give some good punchy bass, but people often expect to be able to recreate a club exprience at home or have them act like subwoofers.

There's also the possibility that the size and shape of your room are causing bass nulls in certain positions. My living room is tricky like that.

By the way, I also think there's a significant gap between what Lindsayt regards as decent bass (and the driver and/or cabinet size needed) and what most people are happy with in their homes (or can fit in their homes). If you are prepared to go the no compromises route (well, the compromise I'm assuming is the savings that can be found on quite old, high end gear), then he can probably guide you in the right direction to find sound quality that you've only dreamed of

Still, the requirements for driver and cabinet size to get bass are still important, even if you aren't prepared to go all the way down lindsayt's path.

 

[Audio Questioner]

Cycleman, do you want loud bass or extended bass? Or both? I think this is a case of horses for courses.

If it's bass extension you're looking for then floorstanding speakers are probably the way to go. If it's loud 'pumping' bass you're after then I'd be looking at a subwoofer.

The 326 is quite competent in the bass department, it's cetainly not bass-light and if you're looking for car-style bass it has not one subwoofer output but two

 

[lindsayt]

thanx a lot....if the 6.5 is small then which size have good bass?!

Multiple 12" drivers or 15" and bigger drivers.

Preferably without a port or transmission line for better bass transient response.

Preferably not in a small, sparsely furnished room (bathroom type acoustics) to avoid too much bass echo.

 

[Cycleman]

if i put from my amp the bass at 3 o clock i am ok.i don't like subwoofer style.i just a little bit more loud the bass.

maybe my system plays flat. Is a problem to have the bass in 3 o clock to the amp?! or is better from eq to make changes?! or something else?!

 

[Deleted member 108165]

if i put from my amp the bass at 3 o clock i am ok.i don't like subwoofer style.i just a little bit more loud the bass.

maybe my system plays flat. Is a problem to have the bass in 3 o clock to the amp?! or is better from eq to make changes?! or something else?!

It's perfectly OK to enhance the bass like this, that's what tone controls are for - adjustment for personal preference.

 

[BigH]

You could try repositioning the speakers this will probably make more difference than changing a DAC. How are they set up, do you have proper stands? Moving them closer to the wall will increase the bass. But yes there are limitations with a budget hifi system. A properly integrated sub is properly the answer if you still want more bass.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

IMO more bass is easy - tone controls. Clearly the level of bass is increased. But better, more solid bass really only comes with larger drivers. 15" drivers will knock your socks off! I guess a sub is the closest we can get within an average domestic environment therefore.

But yes also, room acoustics, levelling and positioning are hugely important and a room dimension will always limit the final result.

 

[davedotco]

IMO more bass is easy - tone controls. Clearly the level of bass is increased. But better, more solid bass really only comes with larger drivers. 15" drivers will knock your socks off! I guess a sub is the closest we can get within an average domestic environment therefore.

But yes also, room acoustics, levelling and positioning are hugely important and a room dimension will always limit the final result.

You need to remember that using regular tone controls, such as those on the Nad, to boost the bass is virtually the same, power wise, as turning up the volume on the amplifier.

The distribution of power in pop music is very heavily weighted towards the bass, so turning up the bass by, say, 3 dB requires the same power as turning the volume up 3dB, ie twice the power in both cases.

Unless you have a very powerful amplifier this matters as you can easily run out of power without realising it, bass is subjectively less loud than midband frequencies and if the speakers are quite small, you waste a lot of power amplifying frequencies that you are barely able to hear.

 

[Cycleman]

Dougk... So is better to adjust bass with the controller than eq?! Somebody told me that is not good for my amp And is in danger.

BIgH...... I have the stands of b&w full of dust with triangle and 1meter from walls...to avoid reflections.

Davedotco... So what csn i do?!

 

[Native_bon]

It's a physical impossibility that you will get good bass from your b&w 685 s2 speakers.

A 6.5" driver in a small ported speaker cannot produce good bass.

I disagree with you there. You only have to listen to IPL Acoustic S2TL speakers with a 6inch woofer. They produce astonishing deep tuneful bass. All boils dwn to quality of material used & design of the speaker.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

Hello to all.

Well i am confused about my system 2 years now.I catch myself to turn the bass from the amp to the maximum.I thing the problem is that i don't have so much lows.

That could be normal, due to the fact that the 685 is announced to have a low filter around 49hz +/-3dB. From experience, B&W has always over-enthusiastic spec sheets. They probably get around 60hz +/-3dB when mesured with a terrestrian DIN norm. 60hz is quite high, so not very optimal if you search a deep bass.

I try another cables but nothing.

Not surprising if your cable wasn't too thin. Somebody made easy cash out of you.

I don't know if the amp is the problem....

Normally not on such compact boxes. Your amp should have plenty of power to drive little speakers. If they need more, change the speakers, not the amp. Generally, the 800 series tend to be very demanding in the impedance ability of your amplifier. I really hope that it's not the case with the chinese B&W's.

but when i play with cd player i like the sound that i take,good bass but not too punchy.With my dac i don't have so good sound

A serious clue that the problem comes from the DAC setup, or the computer setup feeding this DAC.

Many friends say to me that the problem isn't from the dac, but my amp is small so it can't move the bass.

Probably not too knowledgeable friends. I see lots of people having, nowadays, absolute stereotype against 50w AB amps that they judge to be too small if you compare them to the 300 w class D mini-amps you can find at your local junkmarket. They generally ignore the technical aspects.

I see some possible culprits :
- Speaker is weak in bass
- Room is too great, and the little speakers can't fill him accurately
I would discard those two, because if your sound is satisfying with the CD player on. Then it's not those.
- Dac has a sound equalizer or something like that going on (I seriously don't believe that)
- Too much wire-path between the source and the DAC adding perturbation to the original signal.
- The source export is not made in bit perfect, and eats some bass in the process. It weren't the first time.

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

It's a physical impossibility that you will get good bass from your b&w 685 s2 speakers.

A 6.5" driver in a small ported speaker cannot produce good bass.

I disagree with you there. You only have to listen to IPL Acoustic S2TL speakers with a 6inch woofer. They produce astonishing deep tuneful bass. All boils dwn to quality of material used & design of the speaker.

And I believe you. As Fact8 user, I also know the vertues of transmission line speakers. In the case of the 685, I don't believe they have used that much, of research and material.

 

[Cycleman]

Maybe i need other speakers....

 

[BigH]

Maybe i need other speakers....

Move them nearer the wall first.

 

[BigH]

Maybe i need other speakers....

Move them nearer the wall first.

 

[lindsayt]

It's a physical impossibility that you will get good bass from your b&w 685 s2 speakers.

A 6.5" driver in a small ported speaker cannot produce good bass.

I disagree with you there. You only have to listen to IPL Acoustic S2TL speakers with a 6inch woofer. They produce astonishing deep tuneful bass. All boils dwn to quality of material used & design of the speaker.

It's all relative.

You think they have good bass. They may well have better bass than other speakers you've compared them against.

Compared to more purist speakers (ones with no port nor transmission line) with 12" or larger drivers they have relatively bad bass.

I do agree with you in that it does all boil down to the design of the speaker. The IPL S2TL is a relatively bad design when it comes to bass reproduction.

 

[Al ears]

The original 685's had enough bass for me if positioned well but believe the S2's are somewhat lacking in this department. They would need to be fairly close, and I mean about 20-30cm from the rear wall. Try this first and if it doesn't suit then, as others have said, you'll need to change your speakers.

 

[Cycleman]

if i put it in 20-30cm from the rear wall then...what about reflections?!

 

[Al ears]

if i put it in 20-30cm from the rear wall then...what about reflections?!

I think you are worrying too much about a phenomenon that may not occur. I thought it was your bass response we were trying to resolve.

 

[ellisdj]

Its not a phenomenon - you will get bass boundary reflections from all boundaries - this is what causes the variation in pressure for different freq in different parts of the room.

Such is the challenge to overcome this to achieve Good Bass.

 

[BigH]

You will get reflections anyway. Most speakers go nearer to walls than 1m. I suspect your speakers are designed to go closer to the walls, for sound its a question of experimenting as every room is different.

How far apart do you have them? How far away are sitting?

What size room do you have?