Looking for recommendations, what Phono stage pre amp?

[johnmc]

Hi,

This is my first post on here. I'm John, from Ireland. I recently bought a new Project Debut Carbon Esprit SB turntable. It is linked to a Fatman iTube 182 valve amp via a RoHs PP400 pre amp. I am looking to upgrade the pre amp and I am wondering what you guys would recommend?

Not sure on a budget, I guess up to £300 mark.

Thanks in advance, John.

 

[Al ears]

Welcome to the forum. I guess you'd want to buy new. If you are going to stick to Moving Magnet cartridges for the time being then I'd point you in the direction of the Graham Slee Amp 2 or the like. If you think you might move towards Moving Coils type cartridges you might look at Project's own Phono Box S or the like.

Whatever you do you are going to benefit more in the way sound quality by upgrading your cartridge rather than the phono amp at this price point.

 

[johnmc]

Thanks Al Ears. I was thinking along the lines of the Box S or the Tube Box S alright. The MM/MC on them is a major plus I suppose. The 2M Red cartridge will do fine for now. But I will upgrade that in the future too. I just feel there is no point in upgrading to an expensive cartridge and using it with a £30 pre amp.

Any suggestions about whether the Tube Box S linked to a valve amp is a good or bad idea?

 

[ifor]

Just in case you are unaware, you can arrange a two week home loan of the Graham Slee phono amps though his forum.

 

[johnmc]

I'd assume that is applicable to UK residents only though. Thanks!

 

[ifor]

I'd assume that is applicable to UK residents only though. Thanks!

I assume RoI is included with the UK but I'm not 100% sure. There are also European, U.S., Canada and Oz loaner schemes.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks Al Ears. I was thinking along the lines of the Box S or the Tube Box S alright. The MM/MC on them is a major plus I suppose. The 2M Red cartridge will do fine for now. But I will upgrade that in the future too. I just feel there is no point in upgrading to an expensive cartridge and using it with a £30 pre amp.

Any suggestions about whether the Tube Box S linked to a valve amp is a good or bad idea?

There's absolutely no reason to consider this a bad idea. As ifor has stated the Graham Slee has and does get good reviews but you may be limited to MM type only for your budget. Second hand would give you more options if you're prepared to go down this route. That £30 preamp will manage a more expensive cartridge quite nicely though and is still the road I would go down.

 

[ifor]

I've asked the question on the Graham Slee forum about loaning to RoI. Waiting for a definitive answer.

 

[davedotco]

As always.

The Croft Micro 25 is a full function phono stage/pre-amp and can be bought for £350-400 new.

In due course you can replace the Fatman with a power amplifier of your choice, even solid state as you have the valve stage in the pre-amp.

 

[johnmc]

Again, many thanks to the replies. I guess I've more questions now than before.

First of all, I am surprised that a cartridge upgrade would render better results from an Ortofon 2M Red to something else whilst keeping the RoHs PP400 pre amp. I didn't think that would make sense. And I just don't want to discard a new, hardly seen 6 hours of use cartridge just like that.

Second of all, ifor thanks for asking about the loan offer from Graham Slee.

Thirdly, I'd have no bother considering second hand equipment. Just wondering where best to get it from besides eBay. Again, what to choose??

Lastly, davedotco, interesting thoughts on what you said. Got me wondering if I used the 182 as a power amp only, if possible that is, could I add a full proper pre amp with a phono input too? Would I have more/better choice/results?

John

 

[davedotco]

There are of course many full function pre-amps with built in phono stages but they tend to be expensive, plenty of choice, though you will need deep pockets.

The 'baby' Croft is unusual in that it is very affordable, a valve preamp with a good mm input for less than £400 is pretty remarkable. The downside is no remote control, though dealer Audio Flair will customise any model to give you remote volume, just Google.

The Croft is a fine unit, at some point you can replace the Fatman with something more potent, Crofts own power amps are outstanding but you can use whatever you like.

This is very much an alternative route, taking advantage of niche manufacturers and dealers to get something altogether different from the usual mainstream products. it will require some involvement from you too, this is not quite plug and play and a decent relationship with a dealer such as Audio Flair is essential.

 

[ifor]

I'd assume that is applicable to UK residents only though. Thanks!

I assume RoI is included with the UK but I'm not 100% sure. There are also European, U.S., Canada and Oz loaner schemes.

John, the operator of the Graham Slee UK loan scheme has confirmed that he would do Ireland also provided you are in agreement with postage costs. If you would like to proceed with this sign up to the Graham Slee forum and then send a private message to Fatmangolf (aka Jon Berg) to discuss/arrange.

 

[johnmc]

Can I just ask for advice upon best places to find a second hand phono stage?

 

[ifor]

Can I just ask for advice upon best places to find a second hand phono stage?

I would think it's a question of what to look for rather than where to look.

 

[johnmc]

Obviouly you're correct, I'm looking into what to buy but if I could find it or even better cheaper via the second hand route, how bad.

I've been looking at the obvious Project Box S and Tube Box S route to match up with turntable. And the Graham Slee is another obvious option. Would a tube amp matched to a tube pre amp be a good or bad idea?

Again, I really appreciate the advice.

John

 

[Al ears]

Obviouly you're correct, I'm looking into what to buy but if I could find it or even better cheaper via the second hand route, how bad.

I've been looking at the obvious Project Box S and Tube Box S route to match up with turntable. And the Graham Slee is another obvious option. Would a tube amp matched to a tube pre amp be a good or bad idea?

Again, I really appreciate the advice.

John

Neither, it would simply give you a different presentation. Some people may swear by tube everything but adding a solid-state phono preamp to tube amp can be carried out with just as much success sometimes moreso. It is quite often the case that decent tube phono preamps are expensive and sometimes spending the equivalent cash on a solid-state version brings better qualityy.

 

[johnmc]

I'd assume that is applicable to UK residents only though. Thanks!

I assume RoI is included with the UK but I'm not 100% sure. There are also European, U.S., Canada and Oz loaner schemes.

John, the operator of the Graham Slee UK loan scheme has confirmed that he would do Ireland also provided you are in agreement with postage costs. If you would like to proceed with this sign up to the Graham Slee forum and then send a private message to Fatmangolf (aka Jon Berg) to discuss/arrange.

ifor, somehow I managed to miss this post in the forum. Sorry if it seemed I ignored it. Thanks for the information. I will look into it.

John

 

[johnmc]

Can I just ask for opinions on this? ; http://www.ebay.ie/itm/NAD-1155-Pre-amplifier-Pre-amp-/201341225366?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ee0df4996

Would it suit my needs? Be possibly a good/cheaper alternative?

John

 

[ifor]

My understanding was that you need a phono stage not a whole preamp with built in phono stage. My advice would be to stick to plan A unless I'm missing something.

 

[johnmc]

Just to close this out. I've purchased a Project Phono Box DS from the WhatHiFi email offer a few days ago. Obviously I haven't gotten it yet. Will let ye know my opinion of it when I get it. Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread.