Listener fatigue: What is it exactly? Myth or reality?

[haider]

Hi,

I've just been trying to do some research into listener fatigue. There is a Wikipedia page on the subject, but I was wondering if anyone knew of any medical or scientific research on the subject or even if you have had direct experince of it?

I am not talking about Auditory fatigue which is experinced or caused by loud sounds, but teh fatigue one can get from listening at low levels sometimes to some music or equipment and shortens your listening experince. Similar experiences are had more often when wearing headphones.

Haider (of Sonneteer)

 

[Gazzip]

Whenever I upgrade my kit I get listening fatigue. It can last from only a few minutes or for many days. It all depends on how big the item is, how much it cost, and how long it takes for Mrs Gazzip to notice it.

 

[Anderson]

Whenever I upgrade my kit I get listening fatigue. It can last from only a few minutes or for many days. It all depends on how big the item is, how much it cost, and how long it takes for Mrs Gazzip to notice it.

Funny you should describe that because I get the exact same symptoms! Weird!

 

[CnoEvil]

Whenever I upgrade my kit I get listening fatigue. It can last from only a few minutes or for many days. It all depends on how big the item is, how much it cost, and how long it takes for Mrs Gazzip to notice it.

Funny you should describe that because I get the exact same symptoms! Weird!

I have a personal (unscienific) theory, that a new system/component needs a while to settle....and your ears may need a while to come to terms with a new/different sound.

 

[SteveR750]

Sitting in the same position for too long....

 

[Anderson]

Whenever I upgrade my kit I get listening fatigue. It can last from only a few minutes or for many days. It all depends on how big the item is, how much it cost, and how long it takes for Mrs Gazzip to notice it.

Funny you should describe that because I get the exact same symptoms! Weird!

I have found that the best way to mitigate these symptoms is too coo over a new component that is so outrageously expensive, unbelievably ugly and preferably very large, (even though you have absolutely no intention of buying it) that it goes some way to make the thing you really want become much more easy to get the green light on!

Classic sales tactic you got there, start unreasonably high knowing full well what you're happy to settle with

I think everyone else missed the gag lol

 

[Vladimir]

1) Odd order harmonics

2) Accented upper midrange area

3) Loudness

4) Reading this forum every day

 

[Anderson]

4 doesn't help

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I get it from listening to headphones and home cinema systems that are wrongly matched up with amp and speakers.

 

[haider]

I get it from listening to headphones and home cinema systems that are wrongly matched up with amp and speakers.

Yes, but do you have any incling why? Is it too bright for istance?

Haider (of Sonneteer)

 

[Infiniteloop]

Whenever I upgrade my kit I get listening fatigue. It can last from only a few minutes or for many days. It all depends on how big the item is, how much it cost, and how long it takes for Mrs Gazzip to notice it.

Funny you should describe that because I get the exact same symptoms! Weird!

I have found that the best way to mitigate these symptoms is to coo over a new component that is so outrageously expensive, unbelievably ugly and preferably very large, (even though you have absolutely no intention of buying it) that it goes some way to make the thing you really want become much more easy to get the green light on!

 

[Gazzip]

I get it from listening to headphones and home cinema systems that are wrongly matched up with amp and speakers.

Yes, but do you have any incling why? Is it too bright for istance?

Haider (of Sonneteer)

Surely it is anything that doesn't suit the individual's ear? Anything that grates on them which is purely subjective/personal.

 

[haider]

1) Odd order harmonics

2) Accented upper midrange area

3) Loudness

4) Reading this forum every day

Thanks. Yes 1, and 2 or often stated. The problem is there is no empirical evidence presented in any academic/medical studies that I can find. We all, I beleive, have experinced the phenomenon is some guise. There may be many causes or just one simple one. I have seen studies publised at teh AES that try to disprove the odd harmonic theory. Saying that I am not sure they were convicing either.

Loudness causes Auditory fatigue which is well documented and studied and can have very long term harmful effects. Maybe some of the lower volume artifacts are also involved in accentuating this.

If you have the No.4 problem then you should try reading the more aficionado fora like: Pink Fish, Audiocircle and Audiokarma. it will either make you feel more at home or drive you to the assylum. I am not quite sure. Oh there is Audio Assylum of course.



Haider (of Sonneteer)

 

[haider]

I get it from listening to headphones and home cinema systems that are wrongly matched up with amp and speakers.

Yes, but do you have any incling why? Is it too bright for istance?

Haider (of Sonneteer)

Surely it is anything that doesn't suit the individual's ear? Anything that grates on them which is purely subjective/personal.

Yes perhaps, but doesn't the experience you are describing suggest this is not an Ear issue? I may be wrong but I am convinced that when I do experience it, my ears ache. I hence I make a great effort to design it out. Good design practice, which we have developed, seems to ultimately eliminate it. We have a lot of theroy as to why, but outside of probable cause, effect, eliminate, we have nothing to say it is no more than a secondary or by product.

Haider (of Sonneteer)

p.s. someone missus needs an upgrade ;-)

 

[Happy_Listener]

The only part of the frequency spectrum that bothers me is the upper mid-range and lower treble area. Perhaps 3000 to 7000 cycles? This is apparent with about 80% of the speakers and amplifiers I try. Sibilance bothers me to no end, the leading edge of T and S sounds. Not sure if the amp is overemphasising this area, the way some music is recorded, a crossover problem in the loudspeaker, or it's the tweeter. Why does a metal dome tweeter usually give people more listening fatigue than soft domes do?

I do know that Bi-polar transistors usually bother me the most, followed by Mosfets, and Tubes bother me the least. I am sure you know better the science behind that. Odd harmonic distortions? Wave lengths?

The worst part as of late is that every manufacture is trying for more and more transparency so this problem has only become worse. Why do speakers and receivers from the 1970's have less listener fatigue than most audio products today?

I will take musical enjoyment, tone, ease of listening, an amp that has character, over colorless transparency any day.

 

[Pedro2]

I think it has got to be a brain issue. There are times when I can listen to music for hours and enjoy it thoroughly. At other times, my mood will dictate otherwise. Sometimes, I can't face listening to music at all. If my head is full of life's cares and worries, I just find music too much, irrespective of genre. Fortunately, this happens only rarely. Bright or sibilant sound only shortens my tollerance , however!

 

[bluebrazil]

you can be knackered from work, especially if you work in a noisy enviroment

some times its just the recording mixes, but i can get fatigue from my best tunes if im not in the mood.

maybe your mind set says you should be doing something else like the hoovering ( that you promised the missus you would do 3 days ago) and you know that chilling out to your fave tunes is inappropriate.

maybe you do have a badly matched system

 

[bluebrazil]

i hadnt read this before i posted but he hit the nail on the head, if your systems bad it will always sound bad.

your gonna enjoy anything more when your in the mood, an old fav tune coming up on the radio in the car can make you feel sublime somedays

and heres the kicker, you read these forums and get overly critical about your multi thousand squid system. you know its the dogs danglies but if your listening for impervections and not the music your flogging a dead horse

 

[SteveR750]

1) Odd order harmonics

2) Accented upper midrange area

3) Loudness

4) Reading this forum every day

You're really not a rocker are you

Reader Fatigue?

 

[Waxy]

Gives me listener fatigue, usually just after he opens his mouth.

 

[matthewpiano]

Watch one episode of The Voice and you'll fully understand what listener fatigue is.

 

[Vladimir]

1) Odd order harmonics

2) Accented upper midrange area

3) Loudness

4) Reading this forum every day

You're really not a rocker are you

Reader Fatigue?

My hearing damage must be from all the libraries I visited.

 

[Gazzip]

I think it has got to be a brain issue. There are times when I can listen to music for hours and enjoy it thoroughly. At other times, my mood will dictate otherwise. Sometimes, I can't face listening to music at all. If my head is full of life's cares and worries, I just find music too much, irrespective of genre. Fortunately, this happens only rarely. Bright or sibilant sound only shortens my tollerance , however!

I reckon Pedro2 and BlueBrazil have it spot on. I am listening to the same album this morning that I was listening to last night. Last night I was in music heaven. This morning this album is dead to me.

Trying to put my finger on the difference I would say that last night I was listening to the music but that today I am listening to my HiFi.

 

[Gazzip]

The only other difference is that last night there was a clothes horse that was loaded with drying socks and pants sitting between my speakers. This has now been unloaded and put away.

I suggested to my wife that they may have been acting as some kind of acoustic buffer. She scoffed, countering that my pants are anything but an acoustic buffer but she wished that they were.

 

[steve_1979]

I find speakers that have a loud treble and/or excessive phase distortion very fatiguing.

Low powered amplifiers and/or difficult too drive speakers that cause clipping are fatiguing too.

Actually now I think about it I find excessive distortion of any kind fatiguing.