Is it worth upgrading my Onkyo 605 to a Onkyo 876?

[PaulShaw01]

Hi there I have an Onkyo 605, Marantz CD6002, Denon 1940 DVD and Dali Icon 6 surround speakers.

I bought the Onkyo a while ago (until I got into this stereo thing!!!), and realised that I couldn't maximise the use of my Icon 6's for stereo music. I've since realised that I can buy a reciever (Onkyo 876) and then buy say a amp (Marantz PM6002).........the theory being that I could plug the amp to the reciever (as the reciever has connections for an external amp which bypasses all the internal processing of the reciever) and hear an improved sound from my CDs going through the Icon 6's!!!

The question is whether it's worth it. I'm really happy with the surround sound and am ok with the stereo sound also, but am unsure of how much of a difference will I hear with the proposed set-up? The Onkyo 876 is about 400 quid upgrade, and the Marantz amp is another 300 quid, plus cables.......all in all, about a 800 quid upgrade of which I'm unsure whether I'll get the benefit.

If any one can help, it would be appreciated!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

The Onkyo 876 is a brilliant Amp on both music and films with a little tweaking.

Also try this on your 605.
Go into the speaker menu and raise the Db levels into the +5-8 ranges across the board, the gain in the pre amp gets into the DACs sweet spot giving more clarity and depth to music.

Then buy yourself (off flee bay) a BT mains conditioning unit, they make AV amps sound totally clean. You will be hearing sounds in your music that you didn't even know was there.

Tidy up the wires / cables, keep signal / speaker ones as far away as you can from mains cables, clean plugs, check your house earth and cross bonding and remove oxidation.

If you do all this you will be gob smacked by how sweet the 876 sounds and buying a £1000 + Stereo amp will be a waste of money.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul, Rather than buying two amps you should go along and demo a Marantz SR6003 AV Reciver which will fill both your needs. Good for movies and good with music,,however Trevor has also given you sound advice.

 

[Anonymous]

trevor79:The Onkyo 876 is a brilliant Amp on both music and films with a little tweaking.Also try this on your 605. Go into the speaker menu and raise the Db levels into the +5-8 ranges across the board, the gain in the pre amp gets into the DACs sweet spot giving more clarity and depth to music.Then buy yourself (off flee bay) a BT mains conditioning unit, they make AV amps sound totally clean. You will be hearing sounds in your music that you didn't even know was there. Tidy up the wires / cables, keep signal / speaker ones as far away as you can from mains cables, clean plugs, check your house earth and cross bonding and remove oxidation.If you do all this you will be gob smacked by how sweet the 876 sounds and buying a £1000 + Stereo amp will be a waste of money.

ÿCorrect me if I'm wrong, but are saying that tweaking the settings, buying a mains conditioner and keeping all the wires tidy will make the Onkyo 876 compete with a 1k GBP dedicated stereo amp?!?ÿÿ

 

[PaulShaw01]

Thanks Trevor

I've gone in to the "level calibration"and raised the Db levels to 5 for the fronts (previously on 0), and also increments of 5 across the surrounds, centre, sub. Is that what you meant, or did you mean to amend the equalizer settings?"

Also, I thought that by raising the settings on the surround sound that it would only impact the surround sound, as the settings are disregarded when using in pure audio mode? Finally, I thought that it doesn't matter how much you raise the settings, as this just determines what volume level for your desired listening...............as long as the volume of each speaker is approx 65Db in the listening i.e I just need to crank up the volume a bit?? I may be being a complete numpty saying that, but can you please help and clarify?

By the way, the I have a mains conditioner which didmake a big improvement!!!!!

Thanks

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

thfcwestlower:
trevor79:The Onkyo 876 is a brilliant Amp on both music and films with a little tweaking.Also try this on your 605. Go into the speaker menu and raise the Db levels into the +5-8 ranges across the board, the gain in the pre amp gets into the DACs sweet spot giving more clarity and depth to music.Then buy yourself (off flee bay) a BT mains conditioning unit, they make AV amps sound totally clean. You will be hearing sounds in your music that you didn't even know was there. Tidy up the wires / cables, keep signal / speaker ones as far away as you can from mains cables, clean plugs, check your house earth and cross bonding and remove oxidation.If you do all this you will be gob smacked by how sweet the 876 sounds and buying a £1000 + Stereo amp will be a waste of money.

ÿCorrect me if I'm wrong, but are saying that tweaking the settings, buying a mains conditioner and keeping all the wires tidy will make the Onkyo 876 compete with a 1k GBP dedicated stereo amp?!?ÿÿ

Yes that is exactly what I mean. The Onkyo 875 is a "Full class A amplifier, Burr Brown DACs, massive transformer" weighing in at 56lbs due to its very heavy duty power build.
The big problem it has is in the cross contamination from that onto its Pre Amp boards which clouds music terribly.
A totally clean Mains supply feed deals with this giving it a totally quiet noise floor. Turns it into a high end unit which is amazing value for money.

Now tell me what does a 200 watt full class A stereo amp cost?
That's what you NOW have on your hand here!

 

[PaulShaw01]

Hi Trevor,

Now your back on-line......can you help my questions around the sound set-up for the 605?

Cheers

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

PaulShaw01@hotmail.com:
Thanks Trevor

I've gone in to the "level calibration"and raised the Db levels to 5 for the fronts (previously on 0), and also increments of 5 across the surrounds, centre, sub. Is that what you meant, or did you mean to amend the equalizer settings?"

Also, I thought that by raising the settings on the surround sound that it would only impact the surround sound, as the settings are disregarded when using in pure audio mode? Finally, I thought that it doesn't matter how much you raise the settings, as this just determines what volume level for your desired listening...............as long as the volume of each speaker is approx 65Db in the listening i.e I just need to crank up the volume a bit?? I may be being a complete numpty saying that, but can you please help and clarify?

By the way, the I have a mains conditioner which didmake a big improvement!!!!!

Thanks

Paul

Morning Paul
On mine, I listen to music quite a lot on the PL2 setting, mainly off the Hard Drive on the Sony 970 where I have ripped 50 of my favourite CD's . What is interesting is there is no difference in clarity on any of the settings now. They ALL sound as pure and detailed as one another.

No longer is it a wall of sound blasting at you, it doesn't even hurt your ears when you feel the music through the floor, settee etc. Had to sort the lounge door out as it was vibrating on its latch at times!
And I'm talking about listening to Opera, Bach as well as U2!

Sorry Paul, was getting carried away there, let me explain a little more. The level of Gain which the Pre Amp outputs determines how much amplification is required to reach a set sound level.

Its a little like driving a car at lets say 90MPH. If the car is out of tune and badly needing a service you will have to use more throttle to maintain that cruising speed than if the car was tuned to perfection, purring along like a kitten .
So the more work the amplification section has to do the more stressed it will be. The trick is to increase the Gain until there is a drop off in the quality of the music, then turn it back to give some decent headroom. (there is an interaction balance to get here so both parts are working together well)
It is the Pre Amp section where the musicality lies in any equipment, the purer the processing the more beautiful the sound. There's nothing worse than pollution off the Mains to destroy and mask the music by hampering the DACs.

 

[Anonymous]

PaulShaw01@hotmail.com:
Hi Trevor,

Now your back on-line......can you help my questions around the sound set-up for the 605?

Cheers

Paul

My last post applies just as well to any AV receiver. What Mains conditioner are you using?

 

[margetti]

Not sure if I agree that the Onkyo will compete with a £1k stereo amp, but it's an interesting debate.

What I will say, in support for trevor79, is this: I got hold of a BT MCU this week, and it has certainly made an improvement. As it is a lower current 125VA one, I only have my stereo components (stereo amp, cdp, tt, phono amp) and tv plugged in - waiting for a 500VA to turn up for my Onk.

Now, how do I put this... on the one hand, I initially didn't find the improvement a night/day thing, BUT I will say this - the improvement is such that I have shelved plans to upgrade my stereo amp to something in the £1,500 price bracket! I was generally happy with my existing amp, except when it came to "busy" tracks, when it would become a bit muddled, unfocused and lose it's grip on the music. Adding the MCU has all but eliminated such problems! Of course, one can't helping what a £1,500 stereo amp + MCU would sound like...

 

[Anonymous]

margetti:
Not sure if I agree that the Onkyo will compete with a £1k stereo amp, but it's an interesting debate.

What I will say, in support for trevor79, is this: I got hold of a BT MCU this week, and it has certainly made an improvement. As it is a lower current 125VA one, I only have my stereo components (stereo amp, cdp, tt, phono amp) and tv plugged in - waiting for a 500VA to turn up for my Onk.

Now, how do I put this... on the one hand, I initially didn't find the improvement a night/day thing, BUT I will say this - the improvement is such that I have shelved plans to upgrade my stereo amp to something in the £1,500 price bracket! I was generally happy with my existing amp, except when it came to "busy" tracks, when it would become a bit muddled, unfocused and lose it's grip on the music. Adding the MCU has all but eliminated such problems! Of course, one can't helping what a £1,500 stereo amp + MCU would sound like...

On the 125va model you are giving it a lot of loading.
I have my TV plugged into a Tacima 929 with a Russ Andrews Classic powerkord, the picture is just as good. The TV has big current demands.
I use the 125va to only power my Sub, again with a Powerkord. Much more detailed, expressive bass. The 500va have one socket for the 875 alone and the other for the PS3, 970.
When you feed your 876 by itself you will hear a greater improvement.

 

[PaulShaw01]

Hi Trevor

I have a Thor mains conditioner........ about A$300, as I live in Sydney (good reviews over here!!! I can't get Tacima for Australian plugs!!). It made a real difference to bass and clarity of sound for stereo, as well as improving the picture for pay tv!!

Regarding the settings on the 605.......I understood the analogy of the car. So should I play with the settings on the fronts increasing until the sound degrades, and then bring them back a notch.............then ensure that the surrounds are level with the fronts?

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

PaulShaw01@hotmail.com:
Hi Trevor

I have a Thor mains conditioner........ about A$300, as I live in Sydney (good reviews over here!!! I can't get Tacima for Australian plugs!!). It made a real difference to bass and clarity of sound for stereo, as well as improving the picture for pay tv!!

Regarding the settings on the 605.......I understood the analogy of the car. So should I play with the settings on the fronts increasing until the sound degrades, and then bring them back a notch.............then ensure that the surrounds are level with the fronts?

Paul

Yes, that sounds about right, but bring them back at least a couple of notches. If you have level matched everything to your room (5:1) keep that balance and increase the Db levels across all the channels. The volume setting on the Amp will be running lower. At around -20Db it is sounding really loud on mine!

 

[Anonymous]

Might be tempted to invest in a conditioning unit after this interesting thread. I own an onk 875 and was playing my Cyrus CD6s through it. My speakers are Kef IQ5se's at the front (maybe a little under spec for my system but I like them and they will have to do for now), a little like your self I didn't feel as though I was doing the CD player or speakers justice when listening to CD's in stereo (even in the onk pure audio mode with the fronts bi amped).

I bought myself a Cyrus 8vs2 intergrated amp last weekend. I have conected the cyrus amp to the onk's front pre outs and the front speakers to the cyrus amp. I am now using this for all my music sources and the onk purley for movies. I set the volume to 12 oclock on the cyrus amp and ran the auto callibration on the onk. The onk is still the master volume when Im watching TV or movies and it works perfectly.

I have to say (IMO) that the stereo performamance is in a different leauge now, there is no comparison. The clarity of sound, stereo imaging, speed, attack and timing has vastley improved. I am really pleased with the sound and glad I did it!

I take on board what Trevor is saying about the power supply but a dedicated stereo amp is the way to go!

 

[margetti]

trevor79:On the 125va model you are giving it a lot of loading.

If the MCU isn't tripping, is there anything to worry about? For me, tv seems better now than when it was on the Tacima.

I did have the PS3 on there also (!) but the MCU tripped 5 minutes into the movie when I used it for the first time last night - lesson learnt! (Missus and kids not impressed

)

Whilst we're talking about loadings, would the 500va MCU handle the 876 AND Sub? I only have room for one more MCU, so when I manage to get hold of one, will have to make some decisions on what can go on the MCU and what is going to have to stay on the Tacima.ÿ

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

margetti:
trevor79:On the 125va model you are giving it a lot of loading.

If the MCU isn't tripping, is there anything to worry about? For me, tv seems better now than when it was on the Tacima.

I did have the PS3 on there also (!) but the MCU tripped 5 minutes into the movie when I used it for the first time last night - lesson learnt! (Missus and kids not impressed

)

Whilst we're talking about loadings, would the 500va MCU handle the 876 AND Sub? I only have room for one more MCU, so when I manage to get hold of one, will have to make some decisions on what can go on the MCU and what is going to have to stay on the Tacima.ÿ

ÿ

Would try putting the Sub and PS3 on the 125va and the Onkyo and TV on the 500va. Also try switching the PS3 over onto the 500va and see if it sounds better that way.

Nothing to worry about with it tripping if you decrease the loading. These units are pretty bomb proof being designed for commercial applications.

 

[margetti]

trevor79:ÿÿWould try putting the Sub and PS3 on the 125va and the Onkyo and TV on the 500va. Also try switching the PS3 over onto the 500va and see if it sounds better that way.Nothing to worry about with it tripping if you decrease the loading. These units are pretty bomb proof being designed for commercial applications.

Thanks trevor79 - much appreciated. Yet to acquire a 500va mcu (keeping my eye on flea bay), so may be some time before I can have a play with the various combinations...ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

HI Trev

The settings you speak about when turning up the dB levels to around +5/8, are they going to help with an Onkyo 806.

Have mine set up via the mic and they are all around the -5/ -2 area?

Also, because all mine are at slightly different levels would you set the currently loudest speaker to say +5dB and then increase the other accordingly?

Is pretty loud on the test tone when I reach +5dB.

Found a BT unit as well. Any idea what they will roughly go for. think this one is a 500mA model.

 

[margetti]

michael_walkden:
Found a BT unit as well. Any idea what they will roughly go for. think this one is a 500mA model.ÿ

They apparantly used to go for about £30 a pop, but all the discussion on here seems to have pushed that up to closer the £50 mark.ÿOne on flea bay at the moment is already at £41+p&p and still has a week to go!

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Aye. The only one on ebay at the minute.

Are these actually sold as new? or do they just come about from when office get torn apart.

 

[margetti]

I believe the latter - trevor79 may be a better one to answer. That said, the condition of the one I got recently is "as new". Generally speaking, considering that they are used for telecoms equipment, they spend most of their life sitting in an anonymous room untouched and "just doing their job" for most of their life.

 

[Anonymous]

19leelong81:
Might be tempted to invest in a conditioning unit after this interesting thread. I own an onk 875 and was playing my Cyrus CD6s through it. My speakers are Kef IQ5se's at the front (maybe a little under spec for my system but I like them and they will have to do for now), a little like your self I didn't feel as though I was doing the CD player or speakers justice when listening to CD's in stereo (even in the onk pure audio mode with the fronts bi amped).

I bought myself a Cyrus 8vs2 intergrated amp last weekend. I have conected the cyrus amp to the onk's front pre outs and the front speakers to the cyrus amp. I am now using this for all my music sources and the onk purley for movies. I set the volume to 12 oclock on the cyrus amp and ran the auto callibration on the onk. The onk is still the master volume when Im watching TV or movies and it works perfectly.

I have to say (IMO) that the stereo performamance is in a different leauge now, there is no comparison. The clarity of sound, stereo imaging, speed, attack and timing has vastley improved. I am really pleased with the sound and glad I did it!

I take on board what Trevor is saying about the power supply but a dedicated stereo amp is the way to go!

Hi Lee
Totally agree with what you are saying about the stereo performance A/B against the Cyrus. I used to have a 6vs / highly modded PSX, Meridian 207CD, Rogers LS system for many years.
Know the sound well.
The Cyrus isn't puting out 7x200w with a transformer inside it that is massive.
Thats the 875's problem when it comes to doing music. The clarity of sound (buried!), stereo imaging (so, so), speed ((sustained its not), attack and timing. (poor)

So much is radiating off that transformer and through the rectifiers it sounds dull and cumbersome in comparison.
I was myself of the mind that I had to run a separate stereo system as a AV amp wasn't up to the job of doing both.
Went down the route of buying a Tacima which helped a bit, fitted a new 20A consumer box and fed a 40A wired dedicated spur, Classic Powerkords.
All helped to shift much of the mushiness, but still wasn't quite enough for me to be happy with it all. Buying the BT units (that I keep going on about) amazed me, suddenly everything was transformed. Night and day, would say that everything you are getting off the Cyrus you will get off the Onkyo but in 5:1 bi amped mode.

I have hardly any interaction now off the TV, 875, Sub, PS3, 970. I can even put a mains cable next to a signal cable and nothing is heard! (as an experiment) They all have there own routes.

Didn't realise just how bad my mains supply was. Mind you thinking about it there is a big office block and a petrol station 100yrds away plus lots of houses, if they are all on the same grid they will be putting out a lot of noise.

 

[Anonymous]

michael_walkden:
HI Trev

The settings you speak about when turning up the dB levels to around +5/8, are they going to help with an Onkyo 806.

Have mine set up via the mic and they are all around the -5/ -2 area?

Also, because all mine are at slightly different levels would you set the currently loudest speaker to say +5dB and then increase the other accordingly?

Is pretty loud on the test tone when I reach +5dB.

Found a BT unit as well. Any idea what they will roughly go for. think this one is a 500mA model.

Yes, what I am explaining will work on all AV amps. In your case increase the setting into the +5/+8 region. The Burr Brown DACs are the golden boys, let them work properly.

I better shut up about the BT units, they are coming much in demand. Wished I had some spare ones to sell!

 

[Anonymous]

Trevor,

Sounds like you know exaclty what you are doing! I dont have room for the BT MC but I will invest in a smaller alternative when I have the cash.

To be honest I have wanted the cyrus amp cd combo for ages and just could't resist it now its reduced from £900 to £600. The sound is fantastic!