Although I wouldn't pass a blind test, its that subtle. The CD sounds flatter and crisper. I think there is a slight audible difference.
I can tell the difference between a CD and a FLAC file
- Thread starter admin_exported
- Start date
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
I think hearing the difference between CD and a compressed file can be easier once you know what you're listening for. I hear compression (I'm guessing here) from around 5-8kHz upwards. It's easier to hear HF compression than LF compression, I think.
what are you using to play the cd? maybe it's a transport difference, or are you talking about wav files on a pc versus flac? i personally think you give it away when you say you couldn't distinguish them without knowing which is which in advance.
david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
Craig M.:
what are you using to play the cd? maybe it's a transport difference, or are you talking about wav files on a pc versus flac? i personally think you give it away when you say you couldn't distinguish them without knowing which is which in advance.
david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
Yes I'm saying I couldn't pass a blind test because I couldn't pass the blind test between the WASAPI interface and the Wave-Out interface. Even though Microsoft themselves said that there is a difference in SQ between them. I'm a ready to be proven wrong.
what are you using to play the cd? maybe it's a transport difference, or are you talking about wav files on a pc versus flac? i personally think you give it away when you say you couldn't distinguish them without knowing which is which in advance.
david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
Yes I'm saying I couldn't pass a blind test because I couldn't pass the blind test between the WASAPI interface and the Wave-Out interface. Even though Microsoft themselves said that there is a difference in SQ between them. I'm a ready to be proven wrong.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Craig M.: david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
I'll have to admit I'm not up on my compressed/lossless formats and what does what. Yes, I can hear the difference in compressed files, and I suppose it'll partly depend on bit rates. I just think that after having an iPod for a year now, and thinking back to previous personal hi-fi formats, there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
I'll have to have a play about at work once we're fully wired in our main demo room with a Wadia i170 dock through the Naim DAC.
I'll have to admit I'm not up on my compressed/lossless formats and what does what. Yes, I can hear the difference in compressed files, and I suppose it'll partly depend on bit rates. I just think that after having an iPod for a year now, and thinking back to previous personal hi-fi formats, there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
I'll have to have a play about at work once we're fully wired in our main demo room with a Wadia i170 dock through the Naim DAC.
what i mean by "proven" is if you look at the bits (the 1's and 0's) that make up a digital file (a cd) and a flac that has been extracted, there is no difference whatsoever. so if for example, you then send those bits to a soundcard or off board dac, how can there be a difference? the dac is receiving identical bits in both cases, there are no other variables. it doesn't become music until the dac has turned the bits into an analogue signal. and given the bits are the same, the analogue signal is the same. some people say that because there is extra processing going on with the flac, that accounts for the difference in sound, but the dac has no idea this extra processing happened, and because the digital file is buffered to memory it wouldn't matter if it did.
i don't know about your ears, but mine work the same whether my eyes are open or closed.
i don't know about your ears, but mine work the same whether my eyes are open or closed.
FrankHarveyHiFi:
Craig M.: david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
I'll have to admit I'm not up on my compressed/lossless formats and what does what. Yes, I can hear the difference in compressed files, and I suppose it'll partly depend on bit rates. I just think that after having an iPod for a year now, and thinking back to previous personal hi-fi formats, there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
I'll have to have a play about at work once we're fully wired in our main demo room with a Wadia i170 dock through the Naim DAC.
i totally agree with you about lossy compressed files, it's usually in the treble that i notice it first.
i think my ipod touch is rubbish for sq no matter what format it's playing.
anyway, enough geekery - bed time.
Craig M.: david, when you say you can hear a difference between a compressed file and cd, are you talking about mp3 or other lossy compression? because flac files are not compressed in the traditional sense, once extracted (which any pc can do on the fly without breaking sweat) there is absolutely no difference between the flac and the original. this has been proven many times.
I'll have to admit I'm not up on my compressed/lossless formats and what does what. Yes, I can hear the difference in compressed files, and I suppose it'll partly depend on bit rates. I just think that after having an iPod for a year now, and thinking back to previous personal hi-fi formats, there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
I'll have to have a play about at work once we're fully wired in our main demo room with a Wadia i170 dock through the Naim DAC.
i totally agree with you about lossy compressed files, it's usually in the treble that i notice it first.
i think my ipod touch is rubbish for sq no matter what format it's playing.
anyway, enough geekery - bed time.
idc
Well-known member
Are you really hearing the difference in the 'bits', or are you hearing a difference in the players? Even comparisons between files, are you hearing a difference in the 'bits' or are you hearing a difference in the codecs?
if he's talking about a wav file versus a flac file then there is only one variable. the listener.
have a read of the latest edition of plush for the editors opinion, it's aimed at the complete novice to computer audio and helps dispel some myths. no difference between software players when playing "bit perfect" audio as the soundcard/dac receives exactly the same data in both cases. if the data is the same, the sound is the same.
have a read of the latest edition of plush for the editors opinion, it's aimed at the complete novice to computer audio and helps dispel some myths. no difference between software players when playing "bit perfect" audio as the soundcard/dac receives exactly the same data in both cases. if the data is the same, the sound is the same.
Alec
Well-known member
Alec
Well-known member
Craig M.:
i totally agree with you about lossy compressed files, it's usually in the treble that i notice it first.
i think my ipod touch is rubbish for sq no matter what format it's playing.
anyway, enough geekery - bed time.
Certain compression systems are worse than others, where treble is concerned.
As an example wma (windows media audio) compression removes all frequencies above
@64kbps - 13Khz
@96kbps - 16Khz
@320kbps - 21Khz
i totally agree with you about lossy compressed files, it's usually in the treble that i notice it first.
i think my ipod touch is rubbish for sq no matter what format it's playing.
anyway, enough geekery - bed time.
Certain compression systems are worse than others, where treble is concerned.
As an example wma (windows media audio) compression removes all frequencies above
@64kbps - 13Khz
@96kbps - 16Khz
@320kbps - 21Khz
Sliced Bread
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi:...there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
Yep...we seem to be losing something on each generation of new technology
. Hopefully with broadband and storage becoming cheaper and more widely available, we will see more 24bit formats, and perhaps finally make an improvement.
I've yet to hear a CD player (of at least a sensible budget) that would bounce along with the foot tapping energy of a half decent record player!
Having experienced the gain in audio when moving from 16bit to 24bit audio in films, I'm optimistic that we will get it back again.
Has anyone here tried listening to any 24 bit recordings? Were they any better?
Yep...we seem to be losing something on each generation of new technology
I've yet to hear a CD player (of at least a sensible budget) that would bounce along with the foot tapping energy of a half decent record player!
Having experienced the gain in audio when moving from 16bit to 24bit audio in films, I'm optimistic that we will get it back again.
Has anyone here tried listening to any 24 bit recordings? Were they any better?
JohnNewman:FrankHarveyHiFi:...there's just something missing - a little like the CD vs vinyl debate.
Yep...we seem to be losing something on each generation of new technology
. Hopefully with broadband and storage becoming cheaper and more widely available, we will see more 24bit formats, and perhaps finally make an improvement.
I've yet to hear a CD player (of at least a sensible budget) that would bounce along with the foot tapping energy of a half decent record player!
Having experienced the gain in audio when moving from 16bit to 24bit audio in films, I'm optimistic that we will get it back again.
Has anyone here tried listening to any 24 bit recordings? Were they any better?
The 2 available formats at the moment would be either SACD or DVD audio.
DVD audio is available @ 24 bit and SACD has a dynamic range of 120dB.
In my experience moving to a higher sampling rate gives a bigger improvement than bit depth.
Though 96Khz @ 24 bit on DVD audio can be superb, if mastered correctly.
Yep...we seem to be losing something on each generation of new technology
I've yet to hear a CD player (of at least a sensible budget) that would bounce along with the foot tapping energy of a half decent record player!
Having experienced the gain in audio when moving from 16bit to 24bit audio in films, I'm optimistic that we will get it back again.
Has anyone here tried listening to any 24 bit recordings? Were they any better?
The 2 available formats at the moment would be either SACD or DVD audio.
DVD audio is available @ 24 bit and SACD has a dynamic range of 120dB.
In my experience moving to a higher sampling rate gives a bigger improvement than bit depth.
Though 96Khz @ 24 bit on DVD audio can be superb, if mastered correctly.
I think that some of my cd,s sound better from the cd player and others in flac audio from my pc-dac dont know why but i carnt be botherd changeing discs all the time, i think this is the reason a lot of people run music know from pc,s-dac systems. Maybe cd players will become fewer in numbers who knows.
hi john having had both sacd and dvda they both were better than cd to my ears
i prefferd dvda to sacd, its just a shame dvda failed as a format,and sacd is just about
fininshed as a hi res carrier of music, i spent a lot of money on them silly me, eh.
i am now getting into lossless music on pc and enjoying the results i never thought computer music
would sound so good but you need a good dac to obtain this.
i prefferd dvda to sacd, its just a shame dvda failed as a format,and sacd is just about
fininshed as a hi res carrier of music, i spent a lot of money on them silly me, eh.
i am now getting into lossless music on pc and enjoying the results i never thought computer music
would sound so good but you need a good dac to obtain this.
Craig M.:
what i mean by "proven" is if you look at the bits (the 1's and 0's) that make up a digital file (a cd) and a flac that has been extracted, there is no difference whatsoever. so if for example, you then send those bits to a soundcard or off board dac, how can there be a difference? the dac is receiving identical bits in both cases, there are no other variables. it doesn't become music until the dac has turned the bits into an analogue signal. and given the bits are the same, the analogue signal is the same. some people say that because there is extra processing going on with the flac, that accounts for the difference in sound, but the dac has no idea this extra processing happened, and because the digital file is buffered to memory it wouldn't matter if it did.
i don't know about your ears, but mine work the same whether my eyes are open or closed.
i know nothing of the technology so this may be a dumb question.....
if all that matters is the dac getting all of the 0's and 1's from the recording in the correct order, then should all digital cables, optical or coax, be equal in sound quality as long as the connections at each end are clean and secure? and the difference in price simply reflects the general build quality and look of the cable?
what i mean by "proven" is if you look at the bits (the 1's and 0's) that make up a digital file (a cd) and a flac that has been extracted, there is no difference whatsoever. so if for example, you then send those bits to a soundcard or off board dac, how can there be a difference? the dac is receiving identical bits in both cases, there are no other variables. it doesn't become music until the dac has turned the bits into an analogue signal. and given the bits are the same, the analogue signal is the same. some people say that because there is extra processing going on with the flac, that accounts for the difference in sound, but the dac has no idea this extra processing happened, and because the digital file is buffered to memory it wouldn't matter if it did.
i don't know about your ears, but mine work the same whether my eyes are open or closed.
i know nothing of the technology so this may be a dumb question.....
if all that matters is the dac getting all of the 0's and 1's from the recording in the correct order, then should all digital cables, optical or coax, be equal in sound quality as long as the connections at each end are clean and secure? and the difference in price simply reflects the general build quality and look of the cable?
Similar threads
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
-
-
-
-
I'm a LiAV(!) and the future is Not Vinyl or CD, it's DAC / Streaming, what do yo think?- Started by Jasonovich
- Replies: 43
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram