Hi , i want to change my tuner from a DAB model to a FM one but an outdoor aeriel is out of the question as i live in rented accomadation. How important is the outdoor antenna foe good reception? I can put up with a bit of hiss but obviously want a strong signal . I do actually live within 3 miles of the crystal palace transmitter but that didnt make any difference to my tv signal (poor on terrestial and freeview).
How important is an outdoor aeriel for FM reception?
- Thread starter kusum65
- Start date
kusum65:Hi , i want to change my tuner from a DAB model to a FM one
Well done.
kusum65:I do actually live within 3 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter
Now that's lucky! Best transmitter in the world, it used to be said!
However, are there any buildings in the way of you and the transmitter (close, not far away)? I should give you an explination of diffraction of VHF radio waves and how close a building has to be, but my GCSE brain has been fully used up today! A decent indoor aeriel is all I have (albeit situated in my loft and it is 16ft long - yes, 16ft long!) but a decent 3ft long one should do it - heck, even a year ago I was using a bit of wire to get a signal and I was picking up reception fine on BBC1,2,3,4,Classic,local stations etc...
I wouldn't fret too much over it! - Unless that is, you are planning to spend alot of money on a tuner (£500+)!
Well done.
kusum65:I do actually live within 3 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter
Now that's lucky! Best transmitter in the world, it used to be said!
However, are there any buildings in the way of you and the transmitter (close, not far away)? I should give you an explination of diffraction of VHF radio waves and how close a building has to be, but my GCSE brain has been fully used up today! A decent indoor aeriel is all I have (albeit situated in my loft and it is 16ft long - yes, 16ft long!) but a decent 3ft long one should do it - heck, even a year ago I was using a bit of wire to get a signal and I was picking up reception fine on BBC1,2,3,4,Classic,local stations etc...
I wouldn't fret too much over it! - Unless that is, you are planning to spend alot of money on a tuner (£500+)!
Thanks for the reply. In answer to your question , if it wasnt for the pesky building across the road i would have the transmitter bang right in front of me. The surrounding buildings do some times cause freeview problems even with a brilliant little indoor i got a hold of from a traditional little TV shop here in crystal palace ( he had an original logie baird TV set....sadly the poor sod had to close down) . The tuner i was looking at was a budget one , the creek evo at £260.
kusum65:The tuner i was looking at was a budget one , the creek evo at £260.
According to a certain hi-fi magazine which I can't name, the Creek had quite a high sensitivity and responded well to just using a small indoor aeriel. It also had (I havn't heard one myself, I am going with this magazine, of which Mr.Price is the editor) sublime sound-quality and it apparently was the best out of a shoot-out of tuners; many of which were nearly £400!
Therefore, I conclude that the Creek Evo should be just splendid with a good-quality indoor aeriel - you'll never hear the proms so good! (If that is, you like classical!)
According to a certain hi-fi magazine which I can't name, the Creek had quite a high sensitivity and responded well to just using a small indoor aeriel. It also had (I havn't heard one myself, I am going with this magazine, of which Mr.Price is the editor) sublime sound-quality and it apparently was the best out of a shoot-out of tuners; many of which were nearly £400!
Therefore, I conclude that the Creek Evo should be just splendid with a good-quality indoor aeriel - you'll never hear the proms so good! (If that is, you like classical!)
kusum65:
Thanks for your reply , i couldnt have wished for a better answer.
Anytime, anywhere, anyhow...wait, I don't have a laptop!
Please get back to us all on how it all sounds! Have fun!
Thanks for your reply , i couldnt have wished for a better answer.
Anytime, anywhere, anyhow...wait, I don't have a laptop!
Please get back to us all on how it all sounds! Have fun!
I would say that such a nice tuner deserves an outdoor aerial.
I had a nice neat and small omni directional FM aerial at my last place which did the trick. Cost less than £100 to get installed and could attach to the existing aerial.
As for rented accomodation. I had ISDN installed at one rented place I was at. I just convinced the landlord that it would add to the value...An FM aerial certainly will.
I had a nice neat and small omni directional FM aerial at my last place which did the trick. Cost less than £100 to get installed and could attach to the existing aerial.
As for rented accomodation. I had ISDN installed at one rented place I was at. I just convinced the landlord that it would add to the value...An FM aerial certainly will.
Dave_
Well-known member
i used to be an aerial fitter round them parts (crystal palace), and more often than not, whenever we used to do installs there, we had to attenuate the signal to prevent overgain, but mainly for tv reception it has to be said, so should easily get away with an indoor aerial
fr0g:I would say that such a nice tuner deserves an outdoor aerial. I had a nice neat and small omni directional FM aerial at my last place which did the trick. Cost less than £100 to get installed and could attach to the existing aerial. As for rented accomodation. I had ISDN installed at one rented place I was at. I just convinced the landlord that it would add to the value...An FM aerial certainly will.
I've seen it said that some of these omnis have negative gain??? I am sure somebody posted a link recently to a great site for aerial info Look here http://www.aerialsandtv.com/fmanddabradio.html
I've seen it said that some of these omnis have negative gain??? I am sure somebody posted a link recently to a great site for aerial info Look here http://www.aerialsandtv.com/fmanddabradio.html
Hughes123:kusum65:Hi , i want to change my tuner from a DAB model to a FM one
Well done.
kusum65:I do actually live within 3 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter
Now that's lucky! Best transmitter in the world, it used to be said!
However, are there any buildings in the way of you and the transmitter (close, not far away)? I should give you an explination of diffraction of VHF radio waves and how close a building has to be, but my GCSE brain has been fully used up today! A decent indoor aeriel is all I have (albeit situated in my loft and it is 16ft long - yes, 16ft long!) but a decent 3ft long one should do it - heck, even a year ago I was using a bit of wire to get a signal and I was picking up reception fine on BBC1,2,3,4,Classic,local stations etc...
I wouldn't fret too much over it! - Unless that is, you are planning to spend alot of money on a tuner (£500+)!
The BBC VHF/FM service for London doesn't come from Crystal Palace, it comes from Wrotham in Kent.
Well done.
kusum65:I do actually live within 3 miles of the Crystal Palace transmitter
Now that's lucky! Best transmitter in the world, it used to be said!
However, are there any buildings in the way of you and the transmitter (close, not far away)? I should give you an explination of diffraction of VHF radio waves and how close a building has to be, but my GCSE brain has been fully used up today! A decent indoor aeriel is all I have (albeit situated in my loft and it is 16ft long - yes, 16ft long!) but a decent 3ft long one should do it - heck, even a year ago I was using a bit of wire to get a signal and I was picking up reception fine on BBC1,2,3,4,Classic,local stations etc...
I wouldn't fret too much over it! - Unless that is, you are planning to spend alot of money on a tuner (£500+)!
The BBC VHF/FM service for London doesn't come from Crystal Palace, it comes from Wrotham in Kent.
chebby
Well-known member
welshboy:I've seen it said that some of these omnis have negative gain??? I am sure somebody posted a link recently to a great site for aerial info Look here http://www.aerialsandtv.com/fmanddabradio.html
Yes that was me....
http://whathifi.com/forums/t/105901.aspx
The pertinent bit of that ATV (Aerials & TV) link regarding Omni's .....
"The round FM "omni" type antennas do not perform as well as the half wave dipole and this reflects their design, which gives a minus 3 dB gain figure......."
However in such a high signal area, as the original poster lives in, the Omni will probably be fine. Certainly better than any indoor or 'set-top' type aerial.
[EDIT]
However (having just re-read the original post) an outdoor aerial is impossible so he will have to experiment with inddor types. I recommend a home made 'dipole' made from thin speaker wire (QED 42 strand from Maplin) split down to a 'T' shape with the top of the 'T' blu-tacked or pinned to a picture rail and the remainder of the (unsplit) cable dropping vertically then run along the skirting board to the tuner. Connect to the coax socket of the tuner with a short length of 75 ohm coaxial, screened cable with a Balun ('balanced - unbalanced' adaptor) like this from Maplin...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=5145&doy=21m7&C=SO&U=strat15
...and connect the ends of the 'dipole' (the thin speaker cable) to the screw terminals on the Balun.
Instead of thin speaker cable you could make the 'T' shape dipole from 300 ohm feeder cable...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=285&doy=21m7&C=SO&U=strat15
The dipole part of the 'T' shape aerial (the top of the 'T' that runs horizontally along your picture rail) should be a total of 150cm (2 x 75cm) and the vertical bit down to your floor about 2 - 2.5 metres...
Experiment with positioning until your signal strength is as high as you can get.
The reason for 150cm (1.5 metres) is that it makes a 'half-wave' dipole. FM wavelengths are 3.4m to 2.8m (for 88 to 108 MHz) so half wave = 1.7 metres - 1.4 metres. This is why 1.5 metres is about right.
Yes that was me....
http://whathifi.com/forums/t/105901.aspx
The pertinent bit of that ATV (Aerials & TV) link regarding Omni's .....
"The round FM "omni" type antennas do not perform as well as the half wave dipole and this reflects their design, which gives a minus 3 dB gain figure......."
However in such a high signal area, as the original poster lives in, the Omni will probably be fine. Certainly better than any indoor or 'set-top' type aerial.
[EDIT]
However (having just re-read the original post) an outdoor aerial is impossible so he will have to experiment with inddor types. I recommend a home made 'dipole' made from thin speaker wire (QED 42 strand from Maplin) split down to a 'T' shape with the top of the 'T' blu-tacked or pinned to a picture rail and the remainder of the (unsplit) cable dropping vertically then run along the skirting board to the tuner. Connect to the coax socket of the tuner with a short length of 75 ohm coaxial, screened cable with a Balun ('balanced - unbalanced' adaptor) like this from Maplin...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=5145&doy=21m7&C=SO&U=strat15
...and connect the ends of the 'dipole' (the thin speaker cable) to the screw terminals on the Balun.
Instead of thin speaker cable you could make the 'T' shape dipole from 300 ohm feeder cable...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=285&doy=21m7&C=SO&U=strat15
The dipole part of the 'T' shape aerial (the top of the 'T' that runs horizontally along your picture rail) should be a total of 150cm (2 x 75cm) and the vertical bit down to your floor about 2 - 2.5 metres...
Experiment with positioning until your signal strength is as high as you can get.
The reason for 150cm (1.5 metres) is that it makes a 'half-wave' dipole. FM wavelengths are 3.4m to 2.8m (for 88 to 108 MHz) so half wave = 1.7 metres - 1.4 metres. This is why 1.5 metres is about right.
chebby
Well-known member
Or instead of making it yourself, get the Maplin one already made.....
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22497&criteria=fm%20aerial&doy=15m8
It comes with a 'Balun'. All you need is a length of terminated (and screened) 75 ohm coax to connect it to your tuner. Long enough to run from where the vertical of the 'T' drops down (where the Balun will be) to your tuner.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=22497&criteria=fm%20aerial&doy=15m8
It comes with a 'Balun'. All you need is a length of terminated (and screened) 75 ohm coax to connect it to your tuner. Long enough to run from where the vertical of the 'T' drops down (where the Balun will be) to your tuner.
Dave_
Well-known member
jim is right, fm/vhf does come from wrotham an dab comes off c/p, it was early an i was half asleep, didnt read thread properly, so ignore my earlier post guys,
For FM, even a piece of wire has rendered a good transmission for me. Tried this on a Marantz ST4000, Yamaha TX-492 RDS, Onkyo T4211, Sony ST-SE370 and they all produced a good sound as soon as contact was made. I now use a proper indoor aerial that I got for £8.00 and it's perfect.
For DAB however, an external aerial is highly recommended. My Arcam DT81 was rubbish even with a proper internal aerial.
For DAB however, an external aerial is highly recommended. My Arcam DT81 was rubbish even with a proper internal aerial.
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