Help needed, investing in a second setup. Still Hi Fi or Studio Monitors?

[admin_exported]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, and rather a recent discoverer of hi fi. I've invested some time, money and research into my first setup, and I'm trying to find an affordable solution to my second one. Short summary below, would appreciate any comments

I began with Monitor Audio RX2 as bookshelf speakers, NAD T755 as receiver and power amp and I used to stream digital media direct to the NAD. Some time ago I received a turntable as a gift, and everything changed Now I'm listening only to vinyl, and recently changed the speakers to Dynaudio Focus 160 which are... amazing. My next step will be a Project 2Xpression Acryl TT, with a tube preamp from Project and probably a Grado Gold1 cartridge.

Anyway, this is my main setup, the the roadmap is not yet final, I'm still reading and testing and listening. The question here is about my second one.

I am planning to spend some time in a different apartment, and I would like a DECENT setup there, mainly to listen to the ripped vinyls that I have back home. (My TT has a built in preamp and DAC, so I'm constantly recording almost everything I enjoy listening to, at a modest 16bit 48 kHz). I will not be listening to music in a hifi-ish way in my second place, but I would still like to have quality sound. I'd also like to be able to throw small parties. And, since I'm beginning to be able to distinguish sensible differences in, speakers, let's say, or in cartridges, a "decent" sound really needs to be good.

Now - the dillemma. Since I'm saving money for my main setup, I'd want to invest not so much in the second one. So I was thinking... At something that hi fi enthusiasts may throw rocks at me for, but still I'm wondering: would it be a feasible solution to buy a pair of Yamaha HS 7 active speakers, which I hear great things about, and pair them with a little quality USB sound card, let's say, Yamaha Audiogram? In this way I would end up with a 500 euros setup which I don't think any hi fi option can match. I imagine that I can build something in the hi fi area, but it's definitely not gonna have enough power for, let's say, s small party.

I never tried this before, will this "studio oriented" setup deliver the decency I now came to expect? Will the sound be at least a little warm? And a little clear? I know it can't compare to what I have at home, but will it deliver?

Thank you,

Vlad.

 

[davedotco]

Personally I think this is very much the way to go.

There are plenty of good alternatives to be had and in addition to the Yamahas I would point you at Adam, my favourite Presonus Eris and a host of alternatives. If you are in europe, take a look here......

http://www.thomann.de/gb/active_nearfield_monitors.html

I would complete the system with an outboard dac rather than a sound card, this is superb and quite affordable.......

http://epiphany-acoustics.co.uk/products-page/dacs/e-dac-24bit-miniature-usb-dac/

 

[Anonymous]

Hi davedotco,

Thanks for your reply. The Epiphany Acoustics E-DAC seems to be great, it's definitely my choice.

I was also looking at the Presonus Eris 5s, but they seem to react only from 53Hz and I was looking for something to go from 40 - 45 Hz as the low end of the spectrum. My pricerange for one speaker would be around 300 euros max, and the Presonus Eris 8 are a little bit above.

Would you recomend anything other than the HS 7s in this price range?

Thanks a lot,

Vlad

 

[Anonymous]

How about the KRK RP8 RoKit G3? Do they outperform the Yamaha HS 7?

I litterally have no experience with active speakers, and what attracted me at the Yamahas was that in one review someone said that they are leaning a bit towards Hi Fi voicing. And I loooove Hi Fi voicing!

 

[SpursGator]

I agree with DDC on two points here: an outboard DAC, and check out the Adam F series. The F5 is close to your budget; the F7 costs a little more but would give you more 'party capability.' They have nice amps in them - class AB - and a two-band equaliser that will let you tune them up for your room a little - a big advantage for your application IMO.

One other piece of advise during your research: don't assume anything about the bass capability of speakers based on their frequency range (in other words, if one manufacturer says their speakers go down to 45 Hz and another says 55 Hz, don't assume the first pair has better bass). It dosn't work that way. Good bass, in a party sense, has a lot more to do with how much energy the speakers is throwing out over a range that goes up to around 200 Hz - extreme lower octave extension is just one piece of this, and not really the most important. The single overwhelmingly most important factor in bass ability is the size of the speaker. It may be possible to tune a small speaker to give extension down to, say 40 Hz, but no small speaker really likes doing that - the only way to get low end extension out of a small speaker (besides putting it in a big horn or something) is to sacrifice efficiency. So if you have two seemingly identical, smallish speakers, and one goes down 10 Hz lower, the price you will pay is a few dB of efficiency - which in turn means that there is that much less energy in the critical 80-200 Hz range.

As an example, I built a speaker based on a Scan-Speak 5" driver that has a resonance frequency (Fs) of 32 Hz. And it does have decent bass extension down into the 50s and 40s. OTOH, I recently heard a PA speaker based on a Beyma 15" driver with an Fs of 'only' 53 Hz - a hard-rock electric bass through this thing could cause structural damage to a building. My friend played 'I've Got a Feeling' by the Black Eyed Peas and I was worried afterwards that I needed to recomb my hair.

I was running my speakers with a few hundred McIntosh watts, and he was running his through a Yamaha home theatre receiver (my midrange was a lot better, damn it all). My speakers have a sensitivity of around 83 dB/W - his are in theory close to 95. Which means - if I've got the maths right - his speakers draw 1/16 of the power of mine at the same SPL.

I would not buy speakers based on the quoted low-end extension. The Adam F7s have an equaliser to control the bass - it's at 300 Hz! Try to read human impressions of speakers (if you can't actually listen to them) rather than the confusing and often quite fictional numbers that the manufacturers provide.

Best of luck - sounds like the bug has bitten you pretty hard. Please come back and tell us what you've chosen and how it sounds!

 

[davedotco]

Nice post Spurs, I'll try and bring a few specifics into the equation.

I concur about the Adam F series, though the (XArt Ribbon) tweeter sounds a little exposed compared to the more expensive A Series, they are very good value, though the F7 would be my choice if I was going to play anything with substantial low bass.

At lower cost, though with broadly similar capabilities, the Presonus Eris 5 and Eris 8 are, to my ears, outstanding. The Eris 8 is definitely worth the extra and will cope with just about anything in a domestic setup. An 8 inch driver directly driven by a hefty 75 watts goes a long way towards the kind of sound that you describe, powerful, punchy and a lot of presence.

The Eris 5 is a very decent allrounder too, a slight 'hyping' of the bass around 100-120 hz may not be strictly accurate but it does give the speaker a pleasing balance. Not the heft of the Eris 8, but for normal use not at all bad. Both Eris models have a decent degree of control over treble, bass level and roll off, rather more efective than the F series for me.

I prefer the Presonus to the Yamaha HS series but not by a lot, just make sure you do not mess too much with the controls on the Yamahas, they can easily be given a touch of the NS10s which is not nice. The Rockit and to a lesser degree, the Mackie models can sound a bit 'american', a little forthright for everyday listening but great for more 'social occasions'.

A lot will depend on what is and is not available in the local area, these observations are based on european pricing which can be easily got from the Thomann link I gave earlier.

 

[SpursGator]

I was not familiar with Presonus - had a look at the site and they look great. Thomann has the Eris 8 for £388 - that 8" kevlar woofer has to be a deal winner, given the OP's needs. Great shout - I need to hear these as I've a friend looking for something similar and I had mentioned the F7.

 

[skippy]

I have the Mackie MR5 ii's, I paid $300 (they are on offer now $200, as they've gone to mkiii's).

Didn't here them against the Presonus models, but I have these in my garage (no treatment, concrete floor) and they sound surprisingly good, up close the vocal image is centrally placed between the monitors with the instruments clearly separated. In the background.

The MR8 ii's are on offer at $340 at the moment, which are a good deal, but this is a large box and rear ported, compared to the front port of the Presonus.

Best thing to do though is find somewhere you can compare, home demo is always best though.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

These are on special now for 500 euros the 2. They have DAC amp and preamp built-in, plus have USB, RCA and other digital inputs. 30 day money back guarantee, too. Website is www.nubert.de, plenty of reviews if you understand German!

 

[davedotco]

These are on special now for 500 euros the 2. They have DAC amp and preamp built-in, plus have USB, RCA and other digital inputs. 30 day money back guarantee, too. Website is www.nubert.de, plenty of reviews if you understand German!

Nupert have been mentioned a few times on here, the product looks pretty interesting though at this time I do not know of any that have made it to the UK. The A20 is the middle speaker of the old range and a bit more basic than the new range, inputs are limited to a usb and a line in and there is no remote.

The current price makes then similar to the Eris 8, though with a smaller bass driver. Love to get hands on, particularly the new models which have all the functionality of the ADM9s at around half the price.

 

[EvPa]

My pricerange for one speaker would be around 300 euros max, and the Presonus Eris 8 are a little bit above.

As SpursGator said, Thomann sells a pair of PreSonus Eris E8 for roughly 470/480€ (including EU VAT so it depends on your country of residence) and offers free shipping to EU countries at that pricepoint; this is well under your 600€ maximum budget:

http://www.thomann.de/intl/presonus_eris_8.htm

(remember to select your country in order to see the actual price)

The ADAM Audio F7 (which recently got Sound on Sound's "Best Studio Monitor 2014") would end up a bit more expensive, around 550€ for a pair.

 

[don77quijote]

Hi SpursGators,

I very much understand your point, but I am completly new to the monitors area, and hi fi has brought me thinking not so much power but musicality. So no so much power but more frequency rages really does sound ok.

Should I go for a Dynaudio BM5A MKII?

Thank you all for your replies, sorry for the delay.