Help needed! Advice on new Home Cinema setup

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We are redecorating our house and I want to get a decent home cinema setup for the main lounge, I also want to have a second room where I want to be able to watch another source to the main room, i.e. I want to be able to send two independent video+audio signals to two different rooms at the same time, now I dont know if this is even possible with todays relatively cheap (£500-£1000) home cinema amp or receivers.

I am not sure of the difference between an amp and a receiver to start with, I have had a look round the web and nothing jumps out as being a documented "this is an amp and this is a receiver" the only difference I can tell is that receivers have FM radio receivers built in.

So here is a list of what I think I need for 2 rooms, the second room would only have 2 speakers, the main room 5.1 surround

Main room:
37-46" plasma/lcd - please advise which is best lcd or plasma, we tend to watch very little sport and lots of movies
5.1 surround sound speakers - after a few searchs I like the look of the mission M-cube setup for this, is it any good?
Amp/receiver - have heard that the sony STR-DG range DA range and the Onkyo's are good, but can they do what I want
DVD player - no idea which to go for on this

Secondary room:
32" lcd or plasma - again please advise
I already have some old Mission 701's that will do for now for this room.

Obviously there are a lot of open ended questions here and no idea on budget, I dont want to go bonkers and spend thousands, but I want a setup that will last, most of the above items usually fit into a low/medium/high end categories, so ideas at each budget range would be handy.

There will also be Sky+ box and a PC sending audio and or video into this Amp. A lot of newbie questions there for some experts to have a go at!
 

professorhat

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Okay, let's start on the easy bit:

optimus72:the only difference I can tell is that receivers have FM radio receivers built in
That's exactly it!

optimus72:37-46" plasma/lcd - please advise which is best lcd or plasma
No such answer I'm afraid, it really is down to personal preference. Your best bet is to have a look at a few of the reviews online here and check out the magazine (next month's has a 40-42" test I think), make a shortlist and then go and demo them. I recommend going to a proper demo room at a dealer or at least somewhere which has a dimly lit showroom so you can see the proper colours on display on each TV. Also make sure they allow you to see both SD and HD sources and let you play around with the picture setup as most TVs are set up pretty badly in the showroom!

optimus72:5.1 surround sound speakers - after a few searchs I like the look of the mission M-cube setup for this, is it any good?
I haven't heard this, but it did get 5 stars in a fairly recent WHF review (which can be found online). Are you positive you need a style package though? A more traditional package (i.e. bigger boxier speakers) will give you a better sound for generally less money. However, if you do definitely want style, again, best advice is to check out the reviews here and go audition some. KEF, Jamo and Q Acoustics are some other brands you might want to check out at that price.

optimus72:Amp/receiver - have heard that the sony STR-DG range DA range and the Onkyo's are good, but can they do what I want?
On your multi-room, I think you're going to be looking at a fairly expensive receiver to get what you want. I'm pretty sure the Onkyo 905 can do what you require, not sure about the 875 (perhaps someone else can confirm). I'll try and do some more research on this when I get some time later on if no one else can answer!

optimus72:DVD player - no idea which to go for on this
Blu-Ray or DVD?
Really, until you give us an idea of budget, it's going to be difficult to give you good examples of each type of product but hopefully the above will help get you're thinking in the right direction!
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for a fast reply.

TV - I have looked at a few LG Lcd's they were recommended by a local hi fi shop, they also recommended the Samsung ones, I will check the mag review and base my selection on that.

Speakers - Sadly the wife is dictating the 'look/size' of these, hence the choose of the mission ones, they are 9cm square and in ivory they wont be too in your face, ahem...we, want something unobtrusive that delivers good theatre sound

Amp/receiver - I am prepared to spend the most on this part as I want it to last, TV's tend to come and go but a good amp should last longer than the TV is likely to, so I would stretch the budget on this to get the functionality I want, I had trouble actually finding one that would do video and audio to another room, lots seem to have a second "zone" that you can send another audio signal too but not another video signal, and I also notice most amps have more than one HDMI in but only 1 HDMI out, I have been using this as a basis to look for multiroom video and audio, but I appreciate there are many different output beyond HDMI.

DVD player - Not interested in Blue ray particularly, so whatever the better DVD players are

Budget wise, it probably wont be far off the following:
TV - up to £1000
Amp/receiver - up to £1000 possibly a bit more
5.1 Speakers - up to £750
DVD player - up tp £250
 

Gerrardasnails

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professorhat:Okay, let's start on the easy bit:

optimus72:the only difference I can tell is that receivers have FM radio receivers built in
That's exactly it!

optimus72:37-46" plasma/lcd - please advise which is best lcd or plasma
No such answer I'm afraid, it really is down to personal preference. Your best bet is to have a look at a few of the reviews online here and check out the magazine (next month's has a 40-42" test I think), make a shortlist and then go and demo them. I recommend going to a proper demo room at a dealer or at least somewhere which has a dimly lit showroom so you can see the proper colours on display on each TV. Also make sure they allow you to see both SD and HD sources and let you play around with the picture setup as most TVs are set up pretty badly in the showroom!

optimus72:5.1 surround sound speakers - after a few searchs I like the look of the mission M-cube setup for this, is it any good?
I haven't heard this, but it did get 5 stars in a fairly recent WHF review (which can be found online). Are you positive you need a style package though? A more traditional package (i.e. bigger boxier speakers) will give you a better sound for generally less money. However, if you do definitely want style, again, best advice is to check out the reviews here and go audition some. KEF, Jamo and Q Acoustics are some other brands you might want to check out at that price.

optimus72:Amp/receiver - have heard that the sony STR-DG range DA range and the Onkyo's are good, but can they do what I want?
On your multi-room, I think you're going to be looking at a fairly expensive receiver to get what you want. I'm pretty sure the Onkyo 905 can do what you require, not sure about the 875 (perhaps someone else can confirm). I'll try and do some more research on this when I get some time later on if no one else can answer!

optimus72:DVD player - no idea which to go for on this
Blu-Ray or DVD?
Really, until you give us an idea of budget, it's going to be difficult to give you good examples of each type of product but hopefully the above will help get you're thinking in the right direction!

A receiver does a lot more than offer radio! Upconversion, decoding, upscaling, etc., an amp generates sound for all the channels.

Anyway, I agree with the prof about the M cubes - I like the look of them but if you are serious about your movies and want a receiver that will also power another room, it's going to be a decent one and the M cubes will be somewhat lacking for such a machine. I have no idea of your budget but if you can stretch the money, the Denon 4308 or Onkyo 905 will be able to take two hdmi sources (your two screens). Again, this would be dependant on how far away the smaller LCD is from your receiver. Bluray player is a must if you are starting from scratch and love your films I would say. The Panasonic BD50 is supposed to be very good value. Big screens I'm not up to date with, plasma seems to be the best in most people's opinion - Panasonic or Pioneer if you can afford it, Sony LCD W4000 if you want to go that route. Sony 32PD3000 or whatever it's called is supposed to very good for your smaller screen and for a fairly budget dvd player in the second room, Denon 1740 won't let you down.

Speakers for your main room, there are lots of very good ones. If you go traditional, my ones are fantastic or Dali Ikon 6 also.
 

Gerrardasnails

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optimus72:
Thanks for a fast reply.

TV - I have looked at a few LG Lcd's they were recommended by a local hi fi shop, they also recommended the Samsung ones, I will check the mag review and base my selection on that.

Speakers - Sadly the wife is dictating the 'look/size' of these, hence the choose of the mission ones, they are 9cm square and in ivory they wont be too in your face, ahem...we, want something unobtrusive that delivers good theatre sound

Amp/receiver - I am prepared to spend the most on this part as I want it to last, TV's tend to come and go but a good amp should last longer than the TV is likely to, so I would stretch the budget on this to get the functionality I want, I had trouble actually finding one that would do video and audio to another room, lots seem to have a second "zone" that you can send another audio signal too but not another video signal, and I also notice most amps have more than one HDMI in but only 1 HDMI out, I have been using this as a basis to look for multiroom video and audio, but I appreciate there are many different output beyond HDMI.

DVD player - Not interested in Blue ray particularly, so whatever the better DVD players are

Budget wise, it probably wont be far off the following:
TV - up to £1000
Amp/receiver - up to £1000 possibly a bit more
5.1 Speakers - up to £750
DVD player - up tp £250

Aha, this helps. Screen Sony KDL40W4000 - much much better than anything from LG or Samsung. Speakers, fair enough, I understand and they will sound very good with the Onkyo (£899) or Denon receivers I mentioned before - the Denon might cost a bit more though. However, you can save money else where. The speakers can be got for cheaper than £750 (£599 see below), Denon DVD 1940 (excellent and you can get them now for £150) and the screen £879 delivered.

http://www.soundandvisiononline.com/moreinfo/index.asp?product_id=16093
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/2216
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3371
 

professorhat

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Gerrardasnails:A receiver does a lot more than offer radio! Upconversion, decoding, upscaling, etc., an amp generates sound for all the channels.
True in theory, but generally the difference I have seen between what is defined as an AV amplifier and an AV receiver is just the FM radio - both will also generally offer some sort of decoding etc.

Gerrardasnails:the Denon 4308 or Onkyo 905 will be able to take two hdmi sources (your two screens).
It's not quite as simple as that. Certainly with the Onkyo, you can't send one signal to the main TV using HDMI out 1 and then send a different signal out to the second TV via HDMI out 2 (in fact I don't think you can actually even send the same signal out via both HDMIs at the same time). With the multiroom here, I think you can only send one signal out via HDMI (either one) and then a different signal can be sent out via the Composite out (this is what I remember from reading the manual a while back, as I say I'll check this up later on). I'm not sure what the rules are for the Denon.
 
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Anonymous

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professorhat:Gerrardasnails:A receiver does a lot more than offer radio! Upconversion, decoding, upscaling, etc., an amp generates sound for all the channels.
True in theory, but generally the difference I have seen between what is defined as an AV amplifier and an AV receiver is just the FM radio - both will also generally offer some sort of decoding etc.

Gerrardasnails:the Denon 4308 or Onkyo 905 will be able to take two hdmi sources (your two screens).
It's not quite as simple as that. Certainly with the Onkyo, you can't send one signal to the main TV using HDMI out 1 and then send a different signal out to the second TV via HDMI out 2 (in fact I don't think you can actually even send the same signal out via both HDMIs at the same time). With the multiroom here, I think you can only send one signal out via HDMI (either one) and then a different signal can be sent out via the Composite out (this is what I remember from reading the manual a while back, as I say I'll check this up later on). I'm not sure what the rules are for the Denon.

My Denon 3808 has Zone 2. Zone 2 can send independant composite video and audio from that in Zone 1. But the input signal has to be analogue, i.e. anything input into the amp via HDMI or optical cable will not pass out to Zone 2. Basically you're stuck with using composite or s-video.

Rob
 

professorhat

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hifi_nut:My Denon 3808 has Zone 2. Zone 2 can send independant composite video and audio from that in Zone 1. But the input signal has to be analogue, i.e. anything input into the amp via HDMI or optical cable will not pass out to Zone 2. Basically you're stuck with using composite or s-video.
Yup, just read the Onkyo manual again and it's exactly the same for the Onkyo 905. You can read about it here in the manual (you'll need Adobe Reader installed and then just click on the link in the contents for Zone 2 and Zone 3 which start on page 119).
Looking through the manuals for the other Onkyo models, the cheapest in the range to offer both audio and video in the second room is the Onkyo 875. Again, this offers the same i.e. only components which are connected via the composite / S-video connections can be sent to room 2 via a composite cable so quality isn't going to be very good.
You may be better off considering a cheap completely separate all-in-one system in the secondary room for video sources whilst also using a decent pair of stereo speakers which are connected up to the main room for music listening (depending on what you're trying to achieve in the second room).
 
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Anonymous

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I've got the M Cubes and they were a style consideration. They sound good in my room and the Onk 606 powers them very well, but anything above that would be a waste.

Have you thought about buying 2 smaller systems ?
 
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Anonymous

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I may be trying to overcomplicate things too much with the multiroom thing. The second room will have a TV and a PC, I will be using the PC for music, which I can feed to the main amp, I could also feed it to a second amp in the second room and attach the TV in the second room to that amp. Like I said above I have an old set of mission 701's and I have a Sony TA VA8ES amp that is quite old, and I am not sure what inputs/outputs it has, but I could use that. The only issue I can see is that I may want the Sky from the main room played on the second room's TV, hence the need for 2 outputs/or multi room on the main amp, unless you can split a sky signal and send it two ways without and amp, I am open to ideas. If I do go down this route, obviously things like the onkyo 905 are going to be overkill, what would you recommend fo rthe revised non multiroom amp?
 
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Anonymous

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AFAIA you can split the Sky signal and from what you've said you really only need 2 250-400 pound receivers and you'll be fine.

Prof or Fuzzy are best suited to make recommendations but the standard of the Sony, Denon and onk 606 means you'll have all your needs fulfilled with 2 costing less than the 905

And you'll have the bonus of independance of sorce. If your pc has bluray then you'll be laughing and the wife will be happy with the Cubes.
 

FuzzyinLondon

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I agree with andy. I would try and keep things as simple as possible. Firstly, I would concentrate on your main room. With the cubes, something like a Denon 1909 or Onkyo 606 is going to be more than enough and the both have good upscaling, especially the Denon going by the review. The forthcoming Sony 2400ES also looks like it could be brilliant. I'd also recommend checking out the new Jamo A402 package, as it looks pretty decent too. If most of your music is in iTunes and you have wi-fi, then pick up an Airport Express and hook that up to the amp in the front room. You can then just stream all your music from the PC in the second room to your main amp. Also prioritise the TV in the living room over the second set and it's probably where you will do the majority of your movie/tv viewing. Go as big as you can comfortably fit in. Look at the TV forum for recommendations. For the second set try and find a bargain on last year's Panasonic LCDs.

For the second room, just utilise whatever you have until you know what you really need. Sky multi-room is definitely worth considering with the money you will have saved. At least that way you can watch different things in different rooms. Once you know exactly what you need for the second room, you can get another amp if need be. For a decent 32 inch set you won't need cutting edge scaling and you might be fine with one of the budget Onkyos or Sonys.

Good luck and don't rush into anything unnecessary
 
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Anonymous

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FuzzyinLondon:
I agree with andy. I would try and keep things as simple as possible. Firstly, I would concentrate on your main room. With the cubes, something like a Denon 1909 or Onkyo 606 is going to be more than enough and the both have good upscaling, especially the Denon going by the review. The forthcoming Sony 2400ES also looks like it could be brilliant. I'd also recommend checking out the new Jamo A402 package, as it looks pretty decent too. If most of your music is in iTunes and you have wi-fi, then pick up an Airport Express and hook that up to the amp in the front room. You can then just stream all your music from the PC in the second room to your main amp. Also prioritise the TV in the living room over the second set and it's probably where you will do the majority of your movie/tv viewing. Go as big as you can comfortably fit in. Look at the TV forum for recommendations. For the second set try and find a bargain on last year's Panasonic LCDs.

For the second room, just utilise whatever you have until you know what you really need. Sky multi-room is definitely worth considering with the money you will have saved. At least that way you can watch different things in different rooms. Once you know exactly what you need for the second room, you can get another amp if need be. For a decent 32 inch set you won't need cutting edge scaling and you might be fine with one of the budget Onkyos or Sonys.

Good luck and don't rush into anything unnecessary

That's what I was about to say
emotion-5.gif


See, told you he was the man to ask.
 
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Anonymous

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Ok, after reading your advice and demoing a few bits and bobs, and then having a slight rethink, I may well go for the following setup:

TV - Panasonic TH-42PZ81B
Speakers - Mission M Cube 5.1 speaker set (In Ivory finish)
DVD player - Panasonic DMPBD50

Receiver - Either SONY STRDA3300ES or ONKYO TXSR706

The receiver is the only one I haven't decided on, the 706 isnt out yet, but will be shortly, the two are comparable on price and most features, I just cant pick one over the other, I know I will have to at some point though.

After looking at both the sony 40" LCD and the panasonic plasma, I just couldn't go for the sony, the plasma's colours were so much better.

Can anyone recommend a good wall bracket for this plasma, and I will also be looking to get some fairly lengthy HDMI leads (approx 7m), any ideas people?
 

FuzzyinLondon

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Don't know much about wall brackets but I can weigh in on the other bits. If I were you I would wait for the forthcoming review of the Sony 2400ES or even think about the 3400ES as they will both deal with the latest HD audio codecs along with the new Onkyos - the 3300ES won't. If you're running long length for HDMI cables, the recommended cable around here seems to be the Chord HDMI Silver Plus 1.3 which you can buy in 8m lengths for £160. Running multiple long lengths can get very expensive (as the longer the length, the better the quality of the cable needs to be) so I'd advise you to try and keep your kit as close together as you can if possible.
 
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Anonymous

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optimus72:
Ok, after reading your advice and demoing a few bits and bobs, and then having a slight rethink, I may well go for the following setup:

TV - Panasonic TH-42PZ81B
Speakers - Mission M Cube 5.1 speaker set (In Ivory finish)
DVD player - Panasonic DMPBD50

Receiver - Either SONY STRDA3300ES or ONKYO TXSR706

The receiver is the only one I haven't decided on, the 706 isnt out yet, but will be shortly, the two are comparable on price and most features, I just cant pick one over the other, I know I will have to at some point though.

After looking at both the sony 40" LCD and the panasonic plasma, I just couldn't go for the sony, the plasma's colours were so much better.

Can anyone recommend a good wall bracket for this plasma, and I will also be looking to get some fairly lengthy HDMI leads (approx 7m), any ideas people?

So does that mean you've given up on the second room system ?

You could always get a PX80 and a Sony DAVIS10 for less than a grand if you need 2 surround systems.

There are loads of wall brackets on ebay whether you need static, tilt, or swivel.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Well not given up, as I said earlier I still have an old Sony TAVA8ES amp that I can use to power the second room , although I think it may have been pre HDMI, circa 1998 ish, but I can upgrade here when I get more money but it will do for now, the only thing I will have to get is a new TV for the second room, this will probably be a 32" set, so LCD I am guessing, any ideas on a good 32incher?
 

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