Help a noob with first setup?

[JoeMR]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and indeed to most of the things discussed on it. Such is my noobness that I'm not even sure if this post belongs under Hi-Fi and not something else. Thanks in advance for any replies, I'm sure you guys get sick of people asking this same question.

Things you should know:

- I would store my music on my pc as lossless files

- this is intended for my bedroom (about 3 by 4 metres)

- I listen to many different varieties of music, including rock, classical, dnb, ambient, so I don't want stupidly powerful bass

- My budget is probably about 500 pounds, but I'm aiming to spend more like 350-400

- I know you're not going to get anything incredible for that price but this is to see me through the next 5 or so years of uni before I can move out and hopefully make a more serious investment

- I don't want to buy studio monitors because I already have studio headphones (yes I know you shouldn't mix with headphones, just ignore) and I don't really enjoy listening to music out of them because they expose the worse mixes

- I would be interested in buying a subwoofer if it's worth it

So as far as I understand now, a good setup would involve buying a usb DAC which would then connect to either an amp + passive speakers or just some active speakers. Been looking at dacmagic100 and hrt music streamer.

I hope I've made it fairly easy for you guys to see what I'm after, and once again thanks for any advice and apologies for my noobness. Everyone's got to start somewhere right?

 

[MakkaPakka]

This plus a DAC of your choice (I personally wouldn't spend too much on the DAC):

http://www.audio-express.co.uk/product.php?_YAM_AS500_DAL_ZENSOR1_&CAT=STSYS&id=3958

I've only heard these speakers briefly, but they sounded very, very nice.

 

[CarlDW]

A cheap dac along with maybe a Denon PMA720 or Pioneer A30 and then Q2020i or Dali Zensor 1 wouldnt be a bad place to start.

Get down to Richer Sounds and listen to some systems, they have some good package deals.

 

[JoeMR]

This plus a DAC of your choice (I personally wouldn't spend too much on the DAC):

http://www.audio-express.co.uk/product.php?_YAM_AS500_DAL_ZENSOR1_&CAT=STSYS&id=3958

I've only heard these speakers briefly, but they sounded very, very nice.

Wow that looks like a good deal. I'll see if I can find a place to try them out. Cheers.

 

[JoeMR]

A cheap dac along with maybe a Denon PMA720 or Pioneer A30 and then Q2020i or Dali Zensor 1 wouldnt be a bad place to start. Get down to Richer Sounds and listen to some systems, they have some good package deals.

I was planning to head down there at my next oppertunity, very excited. I just thought I'd ask some advice here first so I'm not utterly at the mercy of the salesman haha. Thanks for the suggestions.

Not sure how this quoting thing works and why I can't reply to more than one person in one comment but just to confirm, the setup I listed above (computer - usb DAC - amp/reciever - speakers) is the best option for this price range? I've heard people throw around ideas involving optical connectors and sound cards over DACs.

Thanks all

 

[d_a_n1979]

Personally with your budget I'd look at second hand!

More bang for your buck etc...

Also as your music is on your PC I'd look at streaming it but do you use itunes or would you use itunes (in that way you can use airplay)?!

Maybe something along the lines of:

NAD C320BEE or Marantz PM6004 amp

Apple Airport Express (either latest version new or a second hand one)

Fiio D3 DAC to amp via RCA interconnects (Airport Express to DAC via optical cable)

Q Acoustic 2010's, Monitor Audio BR or BX2's or B&W 602 S2's or S3's

if you don't want to stream then you could look at getting a sound card for your PC that has either optical or coax out so you can utilise a good DAC; the Fiio D3 is only £30 but it's a little belter!

 

[Leeps]

Here's a possibility:

£100 Cambridge Audio DAC magic XS or

£150 Cambridge Audio DAC magic 100 (if the budget can stretch a tad)

into...

£400 Q Acoustics BT3 - bluetooth active speakers (amplifier included)

The Q Acoustics BT3's are quite versatile little beasts - they're the sort of thing you could still put to easy use in a second room in years to come if you intended to purchase a higher grade system. They're not a mix-and-matchable as a separates system of course, but they certainly avoid cluttering up a bedroom if available space is a consideration and the bluetooth feature is a handy bonus.

I do like discreet products where people want to ask where all the boxes are making this sound! (Although my own system I must admit fills my room with lots of shiny black boxes

)

 

[gramps23]

Personally with your budget I'd look at second hand!

More bang for your buck etc...

Also as your music is on your PC I'd look at streaming it but do you use itunes or would you use itunes (in that way you can use airplay)?!

Maybe something along the lines of:

NAD C320BEE or Marantz PM6004 amp

Apple Airport Express (either latest version new or a second hand one)

Fiio D3 DAC to amp via RCA interconnects (Airport Express to DAC via optical cable)

Q Acoustic 2010's, Monitor Audio BR or BX2's or B&W 602 S2's or S3's

if you don't want to stream then you could look at getting a sound card for your PC that has either optical or coax out so you can utilise a good DAC; the Fiio D3 is only £30 but it's a little belter!

+1.

For your budget you could get a cracking system second hand, which, for the money, will trump new kit every which way sound wise. I buy all of my kit that way, it's become a bit of a hobby I guess, and makes buying new stuff seem a bit silly!

D_a_n1979's suggestions for kit are all great and should serve your purposes very well. The only thing that I would add is to factor in some decent speaker stands and cables.

 

[JoeMR]

Also as your music is on your PC I'd look at streaming it but do you use itunes or would you use itunes (in that way you can use airplay)?!

if you don't want to stream then you could look at getting a sound card for your PC that has either optical or coax out so you can utilise a good DAC; the Fiio D3 is only £30 but it's a little belter!

Yeah I suppose second hand is sensible, thanks. As for "streaming" I'm not familiar with how it works to be honest. I have itunes for my iPod but I would rather take advantage of my FLAC collection so I don't think I'll use itunes for this setup. Thanks for your suggestions, I'm adding everything to my list of things to try out at a store.

I was under the impression that the function of a DAC was to bypass the computer's soundcard altogether? Or is this only the case for usb DACs?

 

[JoeMR]

Thanks for the recommendation. My only issue would be that I don't think I'd ever use the bluetooth feature, and I'm sure that feature adds to the cost. I like your idea about less boxes, but I think I'm happy to have more boxes if they make a better sound for the same price, and I'll just have to do my uni work on the floor or something haha

 

[JoeMR]

Thanks, I'd forgotten about stands actually.

Can I just add that I'm so confused as to how this replying/quoting works...it's stupid that you can't see the entire thread when you reply. Or maybe I'm being stupid.

 

[davedotco]

Joe

If you are playing FLAC files, use a good software player, not an area in which I have great expertese bt something like JRiver maybe.

Use a usb dac to bypass your sound card entirely. The Epiphany Edac is just £100 and brilliant, no need to spend more unless you need more functionality.

Then take one of the following options, bear in mind that you will need to spend a few pounds on cables and stands.

1) Get down to Richer or your local equivilant, if you can get a decent amp cheap enough then get that with a pair of Zensor 1 or if they are too expensive try the basic finish 2010i or 2020i. Do not be tempted by other speakers at this price level.

2) Buy a pair of Adam Audio F5 active monitors. Far better option in my opinion, though this will not generally meet with approval on this forum. They will sound rather different to what you can normally get for the money (£350-ish) so require something of a leap of faith. Check out this, it's american but will give you an idea......

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57586054-47/meet-the-new-champ-of-desktop-speakers-adam-audio-f5/

 

[gramps23]

Thanks, I'd forgotten about stands actually.

Can I just add that I'm so confused as to how this replying/quoting works...it's stupid that you can't see the entire thread when you reply. Or maybe I'm being stupid.

Hi Joe.

Just to clear up the reply/quote issue first. In the bottom right hand corner there's three options, highlighted in blue writing - 'reply', 'flag as offensive' and 'quote'. If you want to reply to someone's post directly, including what they wrote in a 'quote bubble' (like the one above), then click on 'quote'. That way you can see what you're replying to when you write it as well! Otherwise, yep, it is a bit of a pain that you can't see the whole thread when you're making a reply, but that's just the way it is... Hope that all makes sense!

The Adam speakers that are recommended above are very good, and well worth having a listen to - very clean sounding and for the money I don't know of an amp/speaker combo that will touch them. For much less money however, you could find a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 Pro Active's, or 8.2's if you want a bit more LF extension/loudness capability. They go for about £100-£130 second hand in good condition, and sound shockingly good. They're not built as well as the Adam's, but are surprisingly capable and very musical.

 

[JoeMR]

Joe

If you are playing FLAC files, use a good software player, not an area in which I have great expertese bt something like JRiver maybe.

Use a usb dac to bypass your sound card entirely. The Epiphany Edac is just £100 and brilliant, no need to spend more unless you need more functionality.

Then take one of the following options, bear in mind that you will need to spend a few pounds on cables and stands.

1) Get down to Richer or your local equivilant, if you can get a decent amp cheap enough then get that with a pair of Zensor 1 or if they are too expensive try the basic finish 2010i or 2020i. Do not be tempted by other speakers at this price level.

2) Buy a pair of Adam Audio F5 active monitors. Far better option in my opinion, though this will not generally meet with approval on this forum. They will sound rather different to what you can normally get for the money (£350-ish) so require something of a leap of faith. Check out this, it's american but will give you an idea......

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57586054-47/meet-the-new-champ-of-desktop-speakers-adam-audio-f5/

Hi there, thank you for the advice. I had actually narrowed the speakers down to the 2020is or the zensor 1s, but I'm interested that you prefer studio monitors to these. I was under the impression that studio monitors were not particularly enjoyable to listen to - I only really use my studio headphones to listen to music occasionally for the novelty. Also, because they are nearfield, is it not essential to listen to them from a distance of 1-2 metres? I know there are ideal listening distances for all loudspeakers but I thought it was more noticeable with nearfield ones if your positioning isn't correct. This could be an issue for me as I like listening to music from my bed which is about 2.5 metres away!

What do you think?

 

[JoeMR]

Thanks, I'd forgotten about stands actually.

Can I just add that I'm so confused as to how this replying/quoting works...it's stupid that you can't see the entire thread when you reply. Or maybe I'm being stupid.

Hi Joe.

Just to clear up the reply/quote issue first. In the bottom right hand corner there's three options, highlighted in blue writing - 'reply', 'flag as offensive' and 'quote'. If you want to reply to someone's post directly, including what they wrote in a 'quote bubble' (like the one above), then click on 'quote'. That way you can see what you're replying to when you write it as well! Otherwise, yep, it is a bit of a pain that you can't see the whole thread when you're making a reply, but that's just the way it is... Hope that all makes sense!

The Adam speakers that are recommended above are very good, and well worth having a listen to - very clean sounding and for the money I don't know of an amp/speaker combo that will touch them. For much less money however, you could find a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 8.1 Pro Active's, or 8.2's if you want a bit more LF extension/loudness capability. They go for about £100-£130 second hand in good condition, and sound shockingly good. They're not built as well as the Adam's, but are surprisingly capable and very musical.

Hey. Thanks for explaining it, I'm just too used to facebook I guess!

I'm surprised that you prefer the adams over similar priced amp/speakers for listening to music. Since they are nearfield, is it essential to listen to them from a distance of 1-2 metres? Or do they sound ok if you're moving around the room etc?

The Wharfedales look very good for the price, but I think if I went for active speakers I could stretch to the Adams since I would save money on an amp.

Thanks.

 

[davedotco]

Joe

If you are playing FLAC files, use a good software player, not an area in which I have great expertese bt something like JRiver maybe.

Use a usb dac to bypass your sound card entirely. The Epiphany Edac is just £100 and brilliant, no need to spend more unless you need more functionality.

Then take one of the following options, bear in mind that you will need to spend a few pounds on cables and stands.

1) Get down to Richer or your local equivilant, if you can get a decent amp cheap enough then get that with a pair of Zensor 1 or if they are too expensive try the basic finish 2010i or 2020i. Do not be tempted by other speakers at this price level.

2) Buy a pair of Adam Audio F5 active monitors. Far better option in my opinion, though this will not generally meet with approval on this forum. They will sound rather different to what you can normally get for the money (£350-ish) so require something of a leap of faith. Check out this, it's american but will give you an idea......

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57586054-47/meet-the-new-champ-of-desktop-speakers-adam-audio-f5/

Hi there, thank you for the advice. I had actually narrowed the speakers down to the 2020is or the zensor 1s, but I'm interested that you prefer studio monitors to these. I was under the impression that studio monitors were not particularly enjoyable to listen to - I only really use my studio headphones to listen to music occasionally for the novelty. Also, because they are nearfield, is it not essential to listen to them from a distance of 1-2 metres? I know there are ideal listening distances for all loudspeakers but I thought it was more noticeable with nearfield ones if your positioning isn't correct. This could be an issue for me as I like listening to music from my bed which is about 2.5 metres away!

What do you think?

Hey Joe....... :rockout:

In this context the term 'nearfield monitor' is just a name.

Modern digital recording has lead to a huge boom in home studios, often referred to as 'project studios'. These are set up in makeshift rooms usually with no or minimal acoustic treatment.

To take a room 'out of the equation' when mixing it is usual to sit quite close to the monitors, simple as that. In fact, like any speakers they sound better at a distance where the room has a tendency to even out the response somewhat.

About the only difference is that studio speakers will sometimes be balanced with a little more depth to the bass than most similarly sized hi-fi speakers but most of them have a bass 'shelving' control (sometimes called acoustic space) to help balance their response to different positions in the room. Personally I find that feature very useful indeed.

The problem is that such speakers are sold through music/pro audio shops and they tend to demonstrate things differently, usually much, much louder than a hi-fi store. The whole volume thing is quite difficult to understand too, the better examples of monitor, even at these price levels, tend to be clearer and more controlled, (some might say lacking in warmth or body) and sounds less loud for a measured spl so the tendency is, for hi-fi users anyway, to play them too loud.

It is a different sound though and personally I find it so much more transparent and 'hear through' than even Zensor 1s, which I rate very highly for their type, to get the Zensor i to come even close in this regard requires a quality of amplification that is beyond the budget you have set. Personally I think there is no comparison, i think the studio speakers are technically superior and sound better too, but others think differently and will happy to tell you where I am going wrong, they usually are.

 

[JoeMR]

Joe

If you are playing FLAC files, use a good software player, not an area in which I have great expertese bt something like JRiver maybe.

Use a usb dac to bypass your sound card entirely. The Epiphany Edac is just £100 and brilliant, no need to spend more unless you need more functionality.

Then take one of the following options, bear in mind that you will need to spend a few pounds on cables and stands.

1) Get down to Richer or your local equivilant, if you can get a decent amp cheap enough then get that with a pair of Zensor 1 or if they are too expensive try the basic finish 2010i or 2020i. Do not be tempted by other speakers at this price level.

2) Buy a pair of Adam Audio F5 active monitors. Far better option in my opinion, though this will not generally meet with approval on this forum. They will sound rather different to what you can normally get for the money (£350-ish) so require something of a leap of faith. Check out this, it's american but will give you an idea......

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-57586054-47/meet-the-new-champ-of-desktop-speakers-adam-audio-f5/

Hi there, thank you for the advice. I had actually narrowed the speakers down to the 2020is or the zensor 1s, but I'm interested that you prefer studio monitors to these. I was under the impression that studio monitors were not particularly enjoyable to listen to - I only really use my studio headphones to listen to music occasionally for the novelty. Also, because they are nearfield, is it not essential to listen to them from a distance of 1-2 metres? I know there are ideal listening distances for all loudspeakers but I thought it was more noticeable with nearfield ones if your positioning isn't correct. This could be an issue for me as I like listening to music from my bed which is about 2.5 metres away!

What do you think?

Hey Joe....... :rockout:

In this context the term 'nearfield monitor' is just a name.

Modern digital recording has lead to a huge boom in home studios, often referred to as 'project studios'. These are set up in makeshift rooms usually with no or minimal acoustic treatment.

To take a room 'out of the equation' when mixing it is usual to sit quite close to the monitors, simple as that. In fact, like any speakers they sound better at a distance where the room has a tendency to even out the response somewhat.

About the only difference is that studio speakers will sometimes be balanced with a little more depth to the bass than most similarly sized hi-fi speakers but most of them have a bass 'shelving' control (sometimes called acoustic space) to help balance their response to different positions in the room. Personally I find that feature very useful indeed.

The problem is that such speakers are sold through music/pro audio shops and they tend to demonstrate things differently, usually much, much louder than a hi-fi store. The whole volume thing is quite difficult to understand too, the better examples of monitor, even at these price levels, tend to be clearer and more controlled, (some might say lacking in warmth or body) and sounds less loud for a measured spl so the tendency is, for hi-fi users anyway, to play them too loud.

It is a different sound though and personally I find it so much more transparent and 'hear through' than even Zensor 1s, which I rate very highly for their type, to get the Zensor i to come even close in this regard requires a quality of amplification that is beyond the budget you have set. Personally I think there is no comparison, i think the studio speakers are technically superior and sound better too, but others think differently and will happy to tell you where I am going wrong, they usually are.

Thank you for that very helpful post, it really made clear a load of things which I previously only partially understood. I think I like the idea of listening to a more transparent and honest speaker, as long as it is still enjoyable to listen to. It would also kill two birds with one stone because I could use them in combination with my beyerdynamic dt770's for mixing.

Thomann seem to have a 30 day money back guarentee, so I think you've persuaded me to try these out at least, and I'll head down to Richer to listen to some hifi speakers to compare them.

Thanks to everyone who responded to this post, I'll update when I've got my final setup in case anyone is interested.

Cheers

 

[JoeMR]

In case anyone is in a similar position and finds this thread - I tested the 2020is and Zensor 1s in richer sounds with the Marantz PM6005 and they sounded great. The Zensors sounded better to me - clearer vocals and less muffly bass. Strangely, the guy in the shop said the amp didn't have a built in dac but on the internet it says it does...

I ended up buying the Adam F5s off of Thomann, and the cheap fiio d3 to go with (for now). They suit me because they sound fantasic when played quietly and from a close listening position, which is great for a uni room. They take up less space as there is no amp, and best of all I can mix and listen to music on the same set of speakers. I'm glad people recommended these, I was definately mislead when I read that music isn't enjoyable through studio monitors.

The jump from mp3, ipod, ipod dock to flac, pc, dac, studio monitors is incredible. Listening to Solar Fields "Sol" and you can hear every little sound and it's decay in full. Beaut.

Thank you to all