Heard the Naim mu-so at the weekend

[Frank Harvey]

It was a bit irritating that the unit wasn't ethernet connected to the shop's router (at least get a long cable chaps)

That's why we always try and physically plug in any wireless product we have in the store. The last thing you want is for a personal demonstration to be interrupted or spoiled by drop outs or a dodgy wireless connection. The only issue I get every now and again is the connection to my iPhone when I'm using it as a controller for various products.

 

[relocated]

It was a bit irritating that the unit wasn't ethernet connected to the shop's router (at least get a long cable chaps)

That's why we always try and physically plug in any wireless product we have in the store. The last thing you want is for a personal demonstration to be interrupted or spoiled by drop outs or a dodgy wireless connection. The only issue I get every now and again is the connection to my iPhone when I'm using it as a controller for various products.

Wouldn't that rather defeat testing whether the thing worked consistently well, wirelessly??? Isn't that the point of these pieces of equipment, one doesn't have to run more wires around the house?

 

[relocated]

"Well, I heard the MUSO today at my dealers. The Muso was on a glass shelf and I did question this as in my experince NAIM gear never sounds great on glass".

This is a very interesting comment, because where will people put the Muso? Will it fit a rack and wouldn't that restrict its abilities? Likewise, will people put it on a piece of furniture, with all the problems of full range sound and electronics exciting vibrations within the furniture and its voids, and never get anywhere near the best out of it.

Where would one house it???????

 

[Dave_]

Wouldn't that rather defeat testing whether the thing worked consistently well, wirelessly???

Not really, since WiFi reliability/performance is affected by the environment its being operated in as well as the h/w being used

As I'm sure you're aware, given the fancy router proudly on display in your sig...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Wouldn't that rather defeat testing whether the thing worked consistently well, wirelessly??? Isn't that the point of these pieces of equipment, one doesn't have to run more wires around the house?

Our building is particularly awkward, and even if the potential customer also has an awkward setup, it doesn't necessarily mean the two situations will be alike in any way. The distance that some of our items are from our router is far greater than most people would would ever have an item from a router. The only way to see how well the wireless works is to try it in that specific situation. With products being wired, it shows that when the job is done properly, there is no issue with the product's streaming capabilities, so if there is a problem once placed in situ, the issue is with the wireless capabilities of the user's router.

In this case, the Mu-so has two antennas for the best possible reception when used wirelessly.

 

[chebby]

It was a bit irritating that the unit wasn't ethernet connected to the shop's router (at least get a long cable chaps)

That's why we always try and physically plug in any wireless product we have in the store. The last thing you want is for a personal demonstration to be interrupted or spoiled by drop outs or a dodgy wireless connection. The only issue I get every now and again is the connection to my iPhone when I'm using it as a controller for various products.

Wouldn't that rather defeat testing whether the thing worked consistently well, wirelessly??? Isn't that the point of these pieces of equipment, one doesn't have to run more wires around the house?

I also pointed out that the shop were having a bad day with their wi-fi ...

It was a bit irritating that the unit wasn't ethernet connected to the shop's router (at least get a long cable chaps) and they were having grief with their wi-fi ("You should have come yesterday, the wi-fi was excellent then")

I am sure the Naim will be ok in a stable wi-fi environment (of the sort you'd expect a hi-fi shop to have given how many wireless network/streaming products they sell nowadays). I'm blaming Audio-T for not investing in that branch's wi-fi rather than blaming the Naim.

 

[relocated]

Wouldn't that rather defeat testing whether the thing worked consistently well, wirelessly???

Not really, since WiFi reliability/performance is affected by the environment its being operated in as well as the h/w being used

As I'm sure you're aware, given the fancy router proudly on display in your sig...

Yes I'm aware that environment makes a difference. But surely an important [very/] part of the product is it being wireless and a potential buyer should be able to see how well ANY wireless product works given the potential for problems? I would expect a modern technology selling business to have a sufficiently robust wifi network to show off ANY wireless product to its best, when operated wirelessly. Being given the, 'it was working wonderfully yesterday [honest]' line would put me off, quick smart.

Oh and "proudly" is your misguided interpretation of what, for me, is a list of what I use.

 

[gowiththeflow]

...... I'm blaming Audio-T for not investing in that branch's wi-fi rather than blaming the Naim.

During a recent speaker demo at a branch of Audio T, they couldn't get anything to stream from the internet at all. The salesman said they hadn't been able to access their usual online music services for a few days and wondered if the subscription hadn't been paid. They couldn't stream wirelessly from a HDD either and only had Naim streamers connected by ethernet to an adjacent UnitiServe.

It would have been a bit of a washout for testing streamers, if that's what I had been there for.

.

 

[gowiththeflow]

....Our building is particularly awkward, .........

......The distance that some of our items are from our router is far greater than most people would would ever have an item from a router.........

I don't mean to be rude, but I have to say that's a poor show and you are failing big time as a business.

How about using a wifi repeater(s) or booster(s), to ensure adequate coverage? If there are still difficulties with such things as interference etc, consider getting someone in to solve your issues. You are supposed to be a professional outfit after all.

.

 

[chebby]

Twas ever thus ...

... whenever I bought a tuner from this branch (Rega Radio in 1996 and Naim NAT05 in 2009) it could never be demonstrated in-store because they had no FM aerial!

They would recommend a good aerial installer but had never availed themselves of his services.

 

[relocated]

It seems that things are getting a bit defensive here and my point was not in specific relation to the MUso, it just happens to have come up in the Muso thread.

My questions/points are:

Should not a shop[ ANY shop - don't take this personally anyone] selling modern technology, have a sufficiently robust wifi network to enable them to demo ANY wireless product wirelessly? To enable a prospective purchaser to judge if that product can work satisfactorily and with sufficient fidelity to satisfy their needs.

If there are problems with ANY wireless product not working satisfactorily wirelessly; is that always the fault of the router or could it be because the product is just not up to the job of picking up the adequate[?] signal from the router?

Does anyone actually believe the various forms of: it's always worked perfectly before today, it's a computer malfunction, the wifi isn't working properly today, we've never had one of those break before, any more?

Obviously the first and last are somewhat rhetorical, but I'm genuinely interested in the answer to the second, because I don't know the answer.

 

[relocated]

Twas ever thus ...

... whenever I bought a tuner from this branch (Rega Radio in 1996 and Naim NAT05 in 2009) it could never be demonstrated in-store because they had no FM aerial!

They would recommend a good aerial installer but had never availed themselves of his services.

Well they must have been/are doing something right to keep your attention, but that is appalling over all those years.

 

[chebby]

....Our building is particularly awkward, .........

......The distance that some of our items are from our router is far greater than most people would would ever have an item from a router.........

I don't mean to be rude, but I have to say that's a poor show and you are failing big time as a business.

How about using a wifi repeater(s) or booster(s), to ensure adequate coverage? If there are still difficulties with such things as interference etc, consider getting someone in to solve your issues. You are supposed to be a professional outfit after all..

I think these businesses run on a shoestring budget and are frequently 'behind the curve' rather than ahead of it. The staff can't do anything about it if HQ won't pay for the 'infrastructure'.

Once at a demo in 2008 I had to take my own DAC (and laptop and USB cable) with me as a source. The staff member that day was mystified/amused by it and said something along the lines of "It won't catch on". Six years later and almost everything they sell has some kind of DAC and/or wireless or network element built-in.

Needless to say, they changed their mind when Naim brought out such products as the HDX* and the NaimUniti

*Interesting that Naim themselves can get it wrong. On their latest HDX page they claim "... it was also our first step into digital music delivery". Okay. Fine. So what were all those Naim CD players delivering before the HDX came along?

 

[GeoffreyW]

Cheers Geoff.

Can it be as good at being a soundbar as a dedicated soundbar tho?

As it doesn't have the spatial processing a soundbar has, I doubt it would be as good as a soundbar. However, if you only want quality sound from your tv or other devices, such as a CDP, plus all the other streaming services on offer, and don't have separate speakers then it'll be worth it, perhaps.

 

[chebby]

Well they must have been/are doing something right to keep your attention, but that is appalling over all those years.

Excellent support and service and they are friendly people. And it's the only hi-fi shop in town. (The next one is about 20 miles away and is also an Audio-T.)

 

[GeoffreyW]

I know where the inputs are, but there's not enough height for a USB stick, I reckon?

 

[GeoffreyW]

Chebby, you're just picking at nits now. You know exactly what I meant. I think maybe your making a big deal out of nothing to make up some imaginary point just to prove you are right?

Fact is most of our HI-FI systems, the people on this Forum, have systems that cost in excess of 895. After hearing a nice HI-FI system, like many of us have, Lifestyle products like Muso or Bose are a let down in sound quality.

All I did was a make a passing comment that these Lifestyle type systems do not sound as good as true HI-FI systems and that's all. So calm down and put your fists down.

If you want to go the 895 limit angle then I can further argue that I am confident I could put together a separates system that sounds better than the Muso does for the same price, although it may not have the same features count. Ummm..... are those fighting words?

I've been down the same road as you a couple (or more) times over the years. In 1996 I had a new Rega separates system (amp, tuner and turntable) and enjoyed it for the next 11 years. In 2009 I bought a Naim separates system (Nait 5i, CD5i, NAT05 and nSat speakers with a Rega P2 turntable and phono stage and a separate DAC) but I was beginning to reach the end of my tether with the space it all took up (and the racks and the stands and the cables etc.) and the BS surrounding it all. No matter how good it all sounded I still ended up sitting there looking at a big, light-sucking collection of ugly black boxes and wishing I could make most of it go away!

So I made that happen. I sold the lot and have been extremely happy since March 2011 with a pair of small Rega floorstanders (R3s) and a Marantz M-CR603. (Totally integrated into my preferences of iTunes, AirPlay, iPhone, iPad, Mac Mini and FM and Internet radio.) There was suprisingly (shockingly at first) little difference in overall sound quality and a huge amount of extra useable space.

I thought that might wear off but here, now, three and a half years later, I am still happier than when I owned separates. I'm not saying it's outright 'audiophile' credentials are quite up there with the old Naim stuff, but i've had (and still have) tremendous fun with this system and i've lost any snobbery that I might have felt once about so-called 'lesser' systems (and have no envy for people with 'better' hi-fi). It took a while but the BS was replaced with Book Shelves and I now buy far more CDs (to rip) than I ever did.

I am still considering an upgrade (or change) one day, but only maybe. That upgrade might be the mu-so if I like it (firstly and most importantly), or it might be based around the Naim UnitiQute, or something like the new Quad Vena with an Apple TV for the AirPlay.

So long as it's compact (and not separates again) and good and provides the right functionality/connectivity for eveything I want.

One thing I won't be doing in a hurry is writing off any option - except separates - (including just keeping what I have now as a very real option) just because of other people's prejuduces against the 'idea' of certain kinds of product.

I'm with you on this one, Chebby, as I did the same, ending up with a Uniti, ('cos I want to play cds), an old Planar 3, and my Doublets, and although I'm happy, I still checkout new developments. I'd love a NaimUniti universal disc player, for both video and audio dics, but having auditioned the Bose at home, I still think that, even for the Muso, due to my sitting room, I'll stick with separate speakers, as they give the best sound. But if the Muso scratches your itch, go for it.

I do think that a dedicated hifi seller would have more than just an i-phone input, as my local branch of JL had no radio or other streamimg device connected when I listened, but had I engaged with the salesman, who was busy, and I didn't have time to wait, perhaps more would have been on offer. For something at that price, I'd want to try as many different sources as possible before committing.

 

[tinkywinkydipsylalapo]

I know where the inputs are, but there's not enough height for a USB stick, I reckon?

Again, the USB Type A input is on the righthand side panel.

 

[tinkywinkydipsylalapo]

As it doesn't have the spatial processing a soundbar has, I doubt it would be as good as a soundbar. However, if you only want quality sound from your tv or other devices, such as a CDP, plus all the other streaming services on offer, and don't have separate speakers then it'll be worth it, perhaps.

Again, I don't think Naim has ever said it's been designed as a soundbar (or in fact as a wireless speaker)

 

[Frank Harvey]

Naim aren't marketing it as a soundbar. If anything was ever said about a soundbar, I would've said it. I said that it could also be used as a soundbar due to the connections it has, and it's shape, and as a bonus it has a lot of extra features over a normal soundbar. It may be twice the price of most good quality soundbars (and still cheaper than some high end ones for that matter), but it's quality justifies the price tag.

 

[relocated]

It seems that things are getting a bit defensive here and my point was not in specific relation to the MUso, it just happens to have come up in the Muso thread.

My questions/points are:

Should not a shop[ ANY shop - don't take this personally anyone] selling modern technology, have a sufficiently robust wifi network to enable them to demo ANY wireless product wirelessly? To enable a prospective purchaser to judge if that product can work satisfactorily and with sufficient fidelity to satisfy their needs.

If there are problems with ANY wireless product not working satisfactorily wirelessly; is that always the fault of the router or could it be because the product is just not up to the job of picking up the adequate[?] signal from the router?

Does anyone actually believe the various forms of: it's always worked perfectly before today, it's a computer malfunction, the wifi isn't working properly today, we've never had one of those break before, any more?

Obviously the first and last are somewhat rhetorical, but I'm genuinely interested in the answer to the second, because I don't know the answer[ As a fact].

I would appreciate an answer if anyone can be bothered. Thanks.

 

[nopiano]

@ relocated, not related to the Naim, but my iPad and Audio Pro system, per the footer below... If I use the tablet only for music duties it very rarely drops out. But by its nature, I might read the news on the iPad while listening, or type a reply here. Sometimes a webpage seems to interrupt the signal or rarely another source takes over the AirPlay feed.

Just once, as I mentioned somewhere here, I could not get the AirPlay to connect at all, and then the solution is often the equivalent of ctrl, alt, del, where one seems to have no option but start over. That is why, in my estimation, we are some way from replacing wired up separates. I know my tuner and amp ALWAYS work first time, and with no strange delays, echoes or blips!

 

[chebby]

It seems that things are getting a bit defensive here and my point was not in specific relation to the MUso, it just happens to have come up in the Muso thread.

My questions/points are:

Should not a shop[ ANY shop - don't take this personally anyone] selling modern technology, have a sufficiently robust wifi network to enable them to demo ANY wireless product wirelessly? To enable a prospective purchaser to judge if that product can work satisfactorily and with sufficient fidelity to satisfy their needs.

If there are problems with ANY wireless product not working satisfactorily wirelessly; is that always the fault of the router or could it be because the product is just not up to the job of picking up the adequate[?] signal from the router?

Does anyone actually believe the various forms of: it's always worked perfectly before today, it's a computer malfunction, the wifi isn't working properly today, we've never had one of those break before, any more?

Obviously the first and last are somewhat rhetorical, but I'm genuinely interested in the answer to the second, because I don't know the answer[ As a fact].

I would appreciate an answer if anyone can be bothered. Thanks.

I'll let you know if/when I buy one* and get it home where my wi-fi is rock-solid.

*Or manage to get one on home dem for a weekend.

 

[relocated]

Thank you both.

When I listen to music, that is the only thing I do, 100% listen, no distractions. Luckily my stuff just works, so it is of interest as to what is to blame for others. When I used the new cylindrical Apple Extreme router [ no in-built back-up] then things didn't work properly, or with a replacement.

Chebby, If you get a home demo what are you going to house it on [or would do for any similar type of unit]? Someone earlier, said that Naim doesn't like glass [so that rules out a lot of dedicated stands] and I can't imagine it [or any other] favouring being put on most pieces of furniture.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I can't see Naim not working on glass, as their own stands that they make for their own equipment have glass shelves.