HD tracks, Loudness Wars, Pono

[Deleted member 108165]

I don't have the necessary equipment to measure DR.

Foobar has a DR meter plugin; that's what I use for my uploads to the DR database. You may not like the artist but some of my results can be seen here:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Donna+Summer&album=

 

[Vladimir]

DR isn't a measure of recording quality; it's only a measure of dynamic range in the mastering. A recording can be distorted to hell and still score well for dynamic range.

I know that but it was a sub-optimal recording on 1955 portable equipment where "the bass and drums were receded". Just how much DR could have been captured under those circumstances and by such primitive equipment? (It was only a few years after the first satisfactory recorded transmissions and I'm sure what was found behind the stage at 'Concert By The Sea' wasn't a megabucks Ampex set-up!)

Frustatingly that database isn't very comprehensive either! I wanted to use it as a guide to which more recently mastered CDs to ditch in favour of better, older versions that haven't been screwed with.

In those days jazz drums were miked very badly (usually just one or two microphone) and often just were clipping their peak transients. I'm often frustrated how badly distorted Elvin Jones sounds. With the growth of the recording industry the recording quality went up and drums were recorded with as much as 8 microphones and properly gained. Count the mics in this one.

EDIT: Actually give this a watch.

 

[loneranger]

There is only 1 resolution anf that is back to analog (LP). The record industry will not change.

 

[Vladimir]

Sure.

 

[matt49]

I have been disappointed on both fronts. I guess the 'hi fi, high DR' market is so small, that it really isn't worth going after.

To be a bit more (pedantically) specific, the hi-fi rock/pop market is so small compared to the lo-fi rock/pop market, that it isn't worth going after.

Being thankful for small mercies, the hi-fi classical market remains large enough compared to the lo-fi classical market, that it remains worth going after, and the DR of most classical recordings is still excellent.

 

[BigH]

There is only 1 resolution anf that is back to analog (LP). The record industry will not change.

Yes but many recordings are not on vinyl. Also most jazz and claasical are fine on cd and you dont get all the imperfections you do with vinyl. I was brought up on vinyl in the 70s. I gave buying vinyl because of the poor quality, never could get a decent version and all the crackling in between the tracks. Even in early to mid 70s about 1/3 of lps were stratched, warped or badly pressed. Even some demos by turntable manufacturers have scrathed lps playing. There was 1 lat year, out of the 3, 1 was good, 1 was badly scratched and the other slightly, I want to listen to the music not a load of other noises.

 

[davedotco]

In those days jazz drums were miked very badly (usually just one or two microphone) and often just were clipping their peak transients. I'm often frustrated how badly distorted Elvin Jones sounds. With the growth of the recording industry the recording quality went up and drums were recorded with as much as 8 microphones and properly gained. Count the mics in this one.

EDIT: Actually give this a watch.

It is possible to over egg miking drum kits, it's not that difficult.

I was lucky to sit in (mutely) on a discussion between Eddie Kramer and my boss John Curl on miking acoustic instruments, drums mainly, in a rock studio environment.

Served me well in later years, particularly Kramer's more stripped down approach that I found well suited to stage use. Kramer was not at all dogmatic about this, if a kit needed a dozen mics he would use them, usually a lot less though.

 

[MajorFubar]

I used to hate miking drums. Struggled to avoid phase errors. Actually I wasn't a great fan of miking anything if I'm honest. Always happier playing with the sliders after the recording finished. .

 

[davedotco]

I used to hate miking drums. Struggled to avoid phase errors. Actually I wasn't a great fan of miking anything if I'm honest. Always happier playing with the sliders after the recording finished. .

Most of my work was live rather than studio, for a smallish kit (from the punk/new wave) era I would start with just 4 or 5 mics, only adding more if needed.

I didn't go in for all this 'top snare', 'bottom snare' malarky.

Trying to bring us back on topic, some of the great 60s jazz recordings have great drum sound, the rhythm section being pivotal to the ensemble playing that was so important in that era. Often equipment and facilities were far from first class, but check out Teo Macero's recordings with Miles Davis (Cellar Door, Filmore East).

 

[Vladimir]

I used to hate miking drums. Struggled to avoid phase errors. Actually I wasn't a great fan of miking anything if I'm honest. Always happier playing with the sliders after the recording finished. .

Most of my work was live rather than studio, for a smallish kit (from the punk/new wave) era I would start with just 4 or 5 mics, only adding more if needed.

I didn't go in for all this 'top snare', 'bottom snare' malarky.

Trying to bring us back on topic, some of the great 60s jazz recordings have great drum sound, the rhythm section being pivotal to the ensemble playing that was so important in that era. Often equipment and facilities were far from first class, but check out Teo Macero's recordings with Miles Davis (Cellar Door, Filmore East).

Those came out in 1970. Miles' biggest career problem was he didn't die in the 60s.

Actually a good drum recording from the 1950's was Brubeck's Time Out (Joe Morello on drums), which was done by Teo as well.

 

[Vladimir]

Then with the introspective Evans at the piano, the sextet recorded "So What," which would become the album's opener, starting with an ethereal bass-and-piano prelude. Cobb hit a cymbal crash just as Davis began his solo, and waited for the trumpeter to call for another take.

"I thought I had made a mistake and had hit the cymbal too hard ... but it worked out because it resonated and got smaller and smaller."

Davis kept the tape rolling, and launched into one of the most memorable solos in jazz history-lyrical and restrained, using space to build drama, with his trumpet having a heartbreaking quality.

At first they were all hesitant and had no idea what they were doing. But with that cymbal crash KOB was born.

 

[davedotco]

I used to hate miking drums. Struggled to avoid phase errors. Actually I wasn't a great fan of miking anything if I'm honest. Always happier playing with the sliders after the recording finished. .

Most of my work was live rather than studio, for a smallish kit (from the punk/new wave) era I would start with just 4 or 5 mics, only adding more if needed.

I didn't go in for all this 'top snare', 'bottom snare' malarky.

Trying to bring us back on topic, some of the great 60s jazz recordings have great drum sound, the rhythm section being pivotal to the ensemble playing that was so important in that era. Often equipment and facilities were far from first class, but check out Teo Macero's recordings with Miles Davis (Cellar Door, Filmore East).

Those came out in 1970. Miles' biggest career problem was he didn't die in the 60s.

Actually a good drum recording from the 1950's was Brubeck's Time Out (Joe Morello on drums), which was done by Teo as well.

That is very tasteless.

If you have already assembled two of the greatest quintets of all time, produced several of the best jazz albums ever produced, what do you do next?

Actually I love 'electric' Miles, his influence, particularly on rock music was immense. In fact I cited the two albums particularly because they were electric, getting a good drumsound with amplified instruments is very different to what you can do unamplified, much more difficult in my experience.

 

[Vladimir]

I said career problem, not creative problem. He wasn't a masterfull jazz musician to begin with. Electric Miles created a lot of nonjazz music and spawned nonjazz musicians that continued to make nonjazz. He became a poster you hang on the wall if you are white but want to feel liberal and intelectual.

I guess I'm more of a Coltrane guy. 😉

 

[MrReaper182]

I don't want a better mastering of Neil Young's music, or of Adele. I don't want to listen to any of it. Time to show the greedy music mafia and their stables full of zero integrity riff stealing musicians the middle finger. So much music to listen to, why bother with those fastfood generics at all.

I said the same thing on here and lots of people had a go at me.

 

[MrReaper182]

Yes, but what if it is your favorite music?. Nightwish is a favorite band of me. But al their cd's sounded very bad because of those loudness war. Lp better. Classical music is much better recorded.but i don't like that. So, what can you do?

Once is a beautiful CD but badly recoreded. You should love classical music more as Tarja studied to be an opera singer while in Nightwish. She does the heavy stuff and classical stuff wich makes her awesome in my book.

 

[loneranger]

That's why LP. On LP so much better. Long live analog! (and a nice warm sound)

 

[Vladimir]

That's why LP. On LP so much better. Long live analog! (and a nice warm sound)

Go for it. If that's the sound you like for your music, you decide on what to spend your money on.