Getting volume levels right

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

Hi there, I'm a bit confused by the volume produced by my amp. Here's my current setup: Turntable: Pro-ject Debut IIIDAC: Oppo 105-DAmp: Sony TA-FE370Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver RS1Active Speakers: Yamaha HS5 (for DAC only) Turning the volume knob on my amp to about 10 - 15 percent produces ample loudness with any record I play. I've never cranked it past 25 percent because it's just so loud - is this normal? The sound doesn't distort, it's just that at 15 percent it's at the limit of a comfortable level. The amp is in source direct mode and loudness is off. When I feed the same amp digital music (CD or files) via my DAC, the volume on the amp needs to be at least 50 percent to reach the same loudness. The turntable is connected to the PHONO RCS input on the amp. The DAC is connected to the CD RCA input. Confusingly, when I connect the DAC directly to a pair of active speakers (Yamaha HS5) via XLR, again the volume control on these speakers never goes past 10 or 15 percent because it's super loud above that. Am I doing anything wrong? Somehow it doesn't seem right for the required amplification to be so low. Am I getting the most out of the components and fidelity/detail from the sources? Is there a smarter way to get my levels right with this kit? cheers,Rafi

 

[davedotco]

This is a difficult one because to really understand what is happening here requires you to 'think a bit differently'.

Firstly think of your Sony as a power amp, approx 1 volt in for about 40 watts out.

Your Dac will output at least 2 volts out so the volume control turns down the 2 volt input to something more useable. It is a reasonably well matched system if normal listening is around half way on the volume knob.

Now, you record player outputs just a few millivolts so needs a head amp, in this case it is built into the Sony, it is the output of this 'head amp' that feeds into the 'power amp'. Sometimes the designer will set the output from the head amp a bit low, say around half a volt, so you have to turn the amp up louder to give the same power out as the 2 volt Dac, this is quite common.

However in your case it appears that the output from the head amp is rather high, more than the 2 volts from the dac, so you do not need to turn the record player up as far as the Dac for the same power output, this is less common but still perfectly ok.

As I said above, the Dac outputs 2 volts, the input on the Yamahas need a lot less than that to drive the onboard amps to full power, hence the low setting of the level controls on the speakers.

Everything is working as it should and as it has been designed, it is just not very convenient.

 

[keeper of the quays]

There are plugs that fit on rca inputs these plugs alter the Attenuation? I think? My Musical Fidelity amp had same issue! Volume loud at 9 o'clock..if you do internet search. Should find something.

 

[Al ears]

This is a difficult one because to really understand what is happening here requires you to 'think a bit differently'.

Firstly think of your Sony as a power amp, approx 1 volt in for about 40 watts out.

Your Dac will output at least 2 volts out so the volume control turns down the 2 volt input to something more useable. It is a reasonably well matched system if normal listening is around half way on the volume knob.

Now, you record player outputs just a few millivolts so needs a head amp, in this case it is built into the Sony, it is the output of this 'head amp' that feeds into the 'power amp'. Sometimes the designer will set the output from the head amp a bit low, say around half a volt, so you have to turn the amp up louder to give the same power out as the 2 volt Dac, this is quite common.

However in your case it appears that the output from the head amp is rather high, more than the 2 volts from the dac, so you do not need to turn the record player up as far as the Dac for the same power output, this is less common but still perfectly ok.

As I said above, the Dac outputs 2 volts, the input on the Yamahas need a lot less than that to drive the onboard amps to full power, hence the low setting of the level controls on the speakers.

Everything is working as it should and as it has been designed, it is just not very convenient.

Just so. This is why Rothwell attenuators where developed and might be worth employing here.

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

thank you so much, that has demystified things!

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

interesting, will look into those, thanks. presume there's no loss in quality with attenuators.

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

thanks, will check out Rothwell attenuators.

 

[Al ears]

interesting, will look into those, thanks. presume there's no loss in quality with attenuators.

In theory no and I couldn't discern any quality losses I used them. They come in various levels of attenuation, I used 10dB.

 

[chrisr1718]

I use Rothewell attenuators on a couple of sources and have found them to be total transparent. There are several different types with attenuation either -10db, -15db or -20db and can be fitted to either source or amp. I use the -10db and have fitted them to the source, only because I have a Cyrus2 and the RCA inputs are vertical!

http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

 

[The_Lhc]

I might have misread this but it doesn't stop anyone else, so... How's he going to use attenuators with an integrated phono stage?

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

good question. just reading about it now, I presume a pair of these go into the phono inputs on the back of my amp (the ones that lead to the phono stage?)

http://www.ekmpowershop16.com/ekmps/shops/rothwellaudio/in-line-attenuators-2-p.asp

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

yes, I think I'll start with -10db and see how that goes with the Pro-Ject -> amp -> RS1 and -10db balanced xlr for Oppo -> HS5

 

[hybridauth_Twitter_14821062]

thanks, that's good info. Although, I'm not sure I see the difference between attaching an attenuator to the source vs. the amp.

Seeing as the RCA cables attached to my Pro-Ject have standard male red and white connectors intended to go straight into the phono stage female red and white connectors of my amp - aren't the attenuators simply a go-between?

The signal only travels in one direction, source to amp. What am I missing?