Floorstanders for Denon PMA-250SE

[Gerrardasnails]

Any ideas what sort of level of speaker this amp can drive? My Dad currently has the Kef IQ1 bookshelf speaker and it's lacking in a few areas, bass and warmth to my ears in particular. Price is not that important - as I don't think the amp deserves anything to special (maybe I'm wrong) - I doubt any more than £400 second hand. Alternatively could adding a better amp to the Kefs result in a better sound? Opinions please... ps. Demo's are pretty much out of the equation, this could be a 'suck it and see' operation - buying off ebay and then selling on if not quite right.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Deffo have a nosey at the Acoustic Energy AE Neo 3's Gerrardasnails...

Superb speakers for their cost and can be driven easily...

Saying that the M/A BR5's would be worth looking as well

 

[Anonymous]

Yep Neo 3's for definite

 

[Torres09]

+1 for the Neo 3's, i picked up a pair before xmas for silly money ( £300 ) great floorstanders......

 

[Gerrardasnails]

d_a_n1979:Deffo have a nosey at the Acoustic Energy AE Neo 3's Gerrardasnails...

Superb speakers for their cost and can be driven easily...

Saying that the M/A BR5's would be worth looking as well

Thanks Dan, the BR5s were on my radar but I'll check out the AE's.

 

[Blackdawn]

I like my Denon Amp but you'd be best with a different speaker (ideally 6 ohm) than the Neo 3 for this amp. With 30 w into 8 ohms output you are on the minimum. The Denon finds my RB81 hard to drive even though they are far more sensitive than the neo 3's. I'd upgrade the amp to a NAD 355 and then get some Neo 3 version 2's. 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

Gerrardasnails:Any ideas what sort of level of speaker this amp can drive? My Dad currently has the Kef IQ1 bookshelf speaker and it's lacking in a few areas, bass and warmth to my ears in particular. Price is not that important - as I don't think the amp deserves anything to special (maybe I'm wrong) - I doubt any more than £400 second hand. Alternatively could adding a better amp to the Kefs result in a better sound? Opinions please...ps. Demo's are pretty much out of the equation, this could be a 'suck it and see' operation - buying off ebay and then selling on if not quite right.How does your Dad feel about the sound?

 

[Blackdawn]

You could try some old Mission 752/753 speakers but again I think the 250SE is underpowered to get the best from them.

 

[AEJim]

Blackdawn:You could try some old Mission 752/753 speakers but again I think the 250SE is underpowered to get the best from them.

752's should be ok but I'd avoid the 753's - They are a big drain on current with all those drive units, I used to have them and they definitely responded to power! The Neo's should be ok on the Denon too - a friend of mine had some older Evo 3's (similar load characteristics) running off an old Audio Innovations Alto which I believe was a 30 watter and they sounded lovely on it.

 

[the record spot]

Totally agree with the last two posts. You'll drive the 752s fine (I use an elderly 30w Sansui amp for mine currently) however, they thrive with more powerful amps that can really get a hold of the speakers. It's worth it too.

If it was my cash, I'd look out some sensitive speakers (90db or better) and if the space is available, I'd plump for a pair of Q Acoustics 1050i floorstanders, less than £250 new thanks to the new 2050 floorstander on the go. I think they're around 92 or 94db, have a big sound (it's a big box!) but they're not short of hi-fi credentials. Good for the money, they originally went for £370 and have a won a smattering of awards (Hi Fi World in the UK in 2008). There's the current Q Acoustics 2050 of course, as mentioned and they're £370 new.

Older speakers, KEF Q35.2, Mission 733i (an easier load than the 75-series amps and a nice sound to boot, I had a pair for going on a decade and they're decent for the throwaway money you'll pair for a good pair), Royd Minstrels if space is limited and you can find a pair. Just a few that spring to mind. Happy hunting!

 

[AEJim]

the record spot:Totally agree with the last two posts. You'll drive the 752s fine (I use an elderly 30w Sansui amp for mine currently) however, they thrive with more powerful amps that can really get a hold of the speakers. It's worth it too.If it was my cash, I'd look out some sensitive speakers (90db or better) and if the space is available, I'd plump for a pair of Q Acoustics 1050i floorstanders, less than £250 new thanks to the new 2050 floorstander on the go. I think they're around 92 or 94db, have a big sound (it's a big box!) but they're not short of hi-fi credentials. Good for the money, they originally went for £370 and have a won a smattering of awards (Hi Fi World in the UK in 2008). There's the current Q Acoustics 2050 of course, as mentioned and they're £370 new.Older speakers, KEF Q35.2, Mission 733i (an easier load than the 75-series amps and a nice sound to boot, I had a pair for going on a decade and they're decent for the throwaway money you'll pair for a good pair), Royd Minstrels if space is limited and you can find a pair. Just a few that spring to mind. Happy hunting!

I had the 734's 😉 Also did some nice things despite the rather low-rent tweeter! The Minstrels were lovely (I'm starting to realise I've had a lot of Hi-Fi) and had real character with a crisp and bright demeanour but capable of seriously deep bass for their size when the material demanded - would fit into any room environment due to their tiny size too!

 

[Gerrardasnails]

the record spot:Totally agree with the last two posts. You'll drive the 752s fine (I use an elderly 30w Sansui amp for mine currently) however, they thrive with more powerful amps that can really get a hold of the speakers. It's worth it too.

If it was my cash, I'd look out some sensitive speakers (90db or better) and if the space is available, I'd plump for a pair of Q Acoustics 1050i floorstanders, less than £250 new thanks to the new 2050 floorstander on the go. I think they're around 92 or 94db, have a big sound (it's a big box!) but they're not short of hi-fi credentials. Good for the money, they originally went for £370 and have a won a smattering of awards (Hi Fi World in the UK in 2008). There's the current Q Acoustics 2050 of course, as mentioned and they're £370 new.

Older speakers, KEF Q35.2, Mission 733i (an easier load than the 75-series amps and a nice sound to boot, I had a pair for going on a decade and they're decent for the throwaway money you'll pair for a good pair), Royd Minstrels if space is limited and you can find a pair. Just a few that spring to mind. Happy hunting!

Thanks, I think the Neo 3s are 90db.

 

[the record spot]

Bet those 734s had a fair of thump to them with the double bass drivers on them. Take it this was in the pre-AE days then James...?! You can't short of a decent pair of speakers now.

 

[AEJim]

the record spot:Bet those 734s had a fair of thump to them with the double bass drivers on them. Take it this was in the pre-AE days then James...?! You can't short of a decent pair of speakers now.

Yeah, been into Hi-Fi since I was a young teen - and at AE for 10 years! (I feel much older than my 33 years 😉) There are still plenty of new and exciting products coming around though and I don't mind admitting it when I like other company's efforts - At Munich I thought the Audio Vector's were awesome, especially as they were fairly "normal" speakers, though their Air motion tweeter was starting to get lively on a track and they were promptly turned down. It's only since we got back our Head of RnD found out they were £10k's worth - ouch. The "serious" high end on offer was largely over bright and uninteresting to listen to - I just don't get most of it, a little "Emperor's new clothes" for my liking. At Bristol the little Totem Rainmakers were great for their size and very musical - Proac also had a lovely sound going on. There were plenty I didn't like too but it's a little un-PC to say which!

The 734's took a while to replace, even Audio-T where I went to upgrade looked down on them until I played them and they conceded they were better than they were expecting! (replaced with Ruark Sceptre's on a Naim Nac92/Nap90, Arcam Alpha 9 CD - great system and still better on some tracks than almost anything I've heard).

The Neo's are 88dB in the strictest terms, I know as we've just been working on them and replaced them with a mildly warmed over version - minor tweaks to sound (we were pretty happy with them!) but a bit of a makeover so they're not so ugly! Still called Neo 3 as I didn't want to make more "SE's"... which will in hindsight cause some confusion! I wouldn't be scared off by the figures, they are not hard speakers to drive - most figures are much like the MPG ones you get from car manufacturers at the end of the day and can be a little optimistic...

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wouldn't say the iQ1's are a great match with the Denon, so I'm not surprised you find it lacking.

As a general rule, I'd say you'd be ok with any floorstanders that are, or were, below £500. As far as standmounts go, be a little more careful. Stay away from speakers like Dynaudio's Audience 42's, which are a 4ohm load.

For the KEF's, you could look at any used Arcam Alpha amplification, as the two went together perfectly. If you could pick up an Alpha 9, that'd be special. Also look out for old Creeks.

 

[smuggs]

i might wrong bought i would say that a pair of MA br1's would do lovely mate,

there bottom end is very tight and controlled and the tweeter is spot on. the br5's would good but i am finding they go way to deep for the size and cause of that,they can overlook the detail. The br1's are on the front of my av gear being ran off my denon av1909 and they seem to be very well matched with denon very warm and under control.

If you are after deeper bass or loud music then dont even look at them, but i reckon that it may be just a need of brand and maybe no need to go down the floorstander route.

what about the neo1's are they any good guys

sorry to hijack but frank i am finding my MA br5's to much at me but with out a wide soundstage so its like i feel that the speakers are in my private space i have them 9ft apart and im 8ft from each speaker so i have almost a perfect triangle. I listen to neil young/brucie springsteen,love,gary moore and i really think that the alpha9 is to punchy/forward for the MA bronze range is that fair to say or have i just got setup problems and im miles away cause, you say kef go well with the mid90's alpha range would say that the iq30's would be worth a look.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That's ok, it's not my thread Carl 🙂

The Alpha 9 is about as far away from 'forward' as you can get!! They're very warm, laid back amplifiers, with plenty of bass, but for me it was only the 9 that actually controlled it well (the 7 or 8 couldn't). It was every bit as good as the 8000A, but the Alpha 9 warmed things up and softened everything, made everything sound nice. Sounded beautiful with Ruark Sceptres.

I would say you could do with better speakers.

 

[smuggs]

thanks frank, so i should be looking to save up then, when you say better how in terms of pounds for example brand new in todays market. Just after a target to start the piggy bank. And if possible a few brands that would work well with the arcam aplha9 (genie2/dac-magic). As they are all in near brand new condition and i will be keeping for a while.

so is it that the alpha9 is just pushing the br5's to there limits and showing the weakness's alot more than say my old rotel rx202mk2 or denon1909 and in that way undoing the good points like easy to drive punchy upfront and deep bass for small cabinet.

thanks for you time frank.

 

[Frank Harvey]

No problem Carl

 

[Frank Harvey]

smuggs: thanks frank, so i should be looking to save up then, when you say better how in terms of pounds for example brand new in todays market. Just after a target to start the piggy bank. And if possible a few brands that would work well with the arcam aplha9 (genie2/dac-magic).

It depends what sort of sound you're after. To me, the BR5's are a little on the warm/bassy side, and are not the most refined as far as treble is concerned. Don't get me wrong, they're a reat speaker for the money, but compare those as representative of a £400/500 floorstander to an equivalently priced standmount like the Monitor Audio RX1. You get wood veneer (instead of vinyl wrap) wrapped around a more solidly braced cabinet, which produces less bass/midrange colouration. You also get smooth cabinet edges which make the speaker nicer on the eye. You get a higher quality bass driver (albeit one less) that is more responsive and accurate. The RX1's are still a little bassy as most MA's are, but they're capable of a more convincing, 'out of the box' performance. Something like Rega's RS1's will give you similar results too, and will sound a little more lively.

so is it that the alpha9 is just pushing the br5's to there limits and showing the weakness's alot more than say my old rotel rx202mk2 or denon1909 and in that way undoing the good points like easy to drive punchy upfront and deep bass for small cabinet.

The Alpha 9 won't be pushing the BR5's to their limits, it'll be helping you get the most from them. The RX202, although I'm not familiar with it, is more than likely still great sounding product, so I can't see them sounding bad on the end of it. The 1909 isn't going to test them - it's not a hi-fi product, and therefore will not get thbest from them.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Torres09:+1 for the Neo 3's, i picked up a pair before xmas for silly money ( £300 ) great floorstanders......

Nando, are these the version 2 speakers or the originals? I've just found the originals for £249.95 delivered!

 

[AEJim]

Gerrardasnails:Torres09:+1 for the Neo 3's, i picked up a pair before xmas for silly money ( £300 ) great floorstanders......
Nando, are these the version 2 speakers or the originals? I've just found the originals for £249.95 delivered!

^ That's a good deal, I'd snap it up - the mk2 isn't enough of an acoustic change to warrant the extra £150 outlay on a new pair... It's like getting the car with the higher spec interior, still does the basics the same! I'll have the mk2 on our website in the next week or so (new site completely in-fact!)

 

[Torres09]

Gerrardasnails:Torres09:+1 for the Neo 3's, i picked up a pair before xmas for silly money ( £300 ) great floorstanders......

Nando, are these the version 2 speakers or the originals? I've just found the originals for £249.95 delivered!

Damn that's a great price, mine are the originals

Still sound great......