Electrics question - impacts of using other plug sockets on hifi power loop

[admin_exported]

Hi

I don't think this post belongs in the accessories section - apologies if wrong?!

Can anyone tell me what effect is going on with the whole of the power circuit when a plug isn’t quite plugged in and just starting to make contact - that point where sometimes you might expect to see a slight spark (not that I see sparks at this house, but have at others when plugging things on if the switch is already on)? Is it a power dip, a power spike, something to do with too high/low voltage from energy supply, or something else? Done lots of searching previous posts, but not found anything. Any help to the following would be really appreciated - as you’ll probably tell from my post, I’m no electrician!

All the plug sockets on the power circuit that my hifi is on do not have on/off switches. I am very careful about how I turn my hifi components on and off, making sure they are switched off at the back before plugging in, so am not concerned about that. However, I’m getting really annoyed as when I’m listening to my system, every time someone plugs something in on the same circuit, it causes my DAC to momentarily cut out. I do not experience any noticeable background hum through speakers. It seems to happen more when the source is the CD player, but then I do listen to CDs significantly more than computer based stuff, so may just be coincidence. This never happened when I was using the internal CD player DAC or analogue interconnect from PC. Until I bought the DAC I thought I was blessed with little electrical interference, as I never noticed any background noise (I‘m also very careful and tidy with cable runs). I’m on mainland UK power. Not sure if it relates, but there is also a distinct lack of plug sockets here, meaning lots of multi-plugs around the house. I have to connect all of my hifi stuff and PC into one wall socket!

I’m currently using coaxial interconnects from my PC and CD player (my system is listed in my biography), so appreciate it may be causing temporary interference on them - but if this is so, why would this only now become a problem when using an external DAC? Why would it not cause exactly the same problem for the digital signals to the internal DAC on the CD player, or making some form of popping noise or hum on the analogue interconnects previously being used? The closest the coaxials get to any power cable is at the DAC input sockets i.e. the distance between the input sockets (same applies for PC and CD player).

Secondly, could this cause damage to my system, or is it just an annoyance?

Lastly, I assume switching to toslink is likely to help, but is this just masking a problem that could be effecting other components? Is there a way to solve the problem other than switching to optical? Any solution would need to be appropriate to the cost of my system though. Some form of filtering perhaps, better grounding, or am I way off here - all I‘m currently using is a Tacima which has no impact on the issue? I assume if it is a power dip, filtering / surge protection wouldn’t do anything and fear an Uninterruptible Power Supply would be very costly. Unfortunately I can’t really do any physical changes to the house electrics, as it is a rented property.

On the other hand though, it might keep my house mate happy - If they’re fed up of what I’m listening to, they can carefully position a plug slightly out of the socket in another room, thus turning my music off!

Cheers in advance for any help.

 

[MattSPL]

Hi, what you are experiencing is arching. This is when an electrical current tries to jump from A to B, in your case from the socket to the plug.

This is because there is a load on the device being plugged in. If its a switched socket and the switch is off, then this will not happen as the switch is breaking the circuit.

If you plug equipment in with the equipment switched off, the arching will not happen unless the equipment goes straight into standby mode. But even if it does, standby mode shouldnt draw much current so you shouldnt have much of a problem.

The more power a device uses, the more current it draws therefore the bigger the arch will be. And a possible reduction in power on your circuit if somebody plugs something big in.

It is not safe to leave a plug half in as this arching is what can cause fire's if left like this.

My advice would be to make sure things are switched off before plugging in or un plugging if at all possible. And insert/remove plugs from sockets as quickly as can safely be done to reduce the chance of arching. And get yourself a mains filter/surge protector of some sort. Tacima do one reviewed in whathifi and i think its only £40 or there abouts. This should help with any clicks or pops.

 

[idc]

Manassas:
........ Unfortunately I can't really do any physical changes to the house electrics, as it is a rented property........

But your landlord can and if you can show that there is a problem with the mains and reasonable use with multiple occupancy, they may have to by law.

I would contact your landlord.

 

[True Blue]

Seconded what idc wrote, if it is a rented property it is subject to a yearly gas safety check, also an electrical safety check prior to any new tennants moving in. This should be carried out by a Part P certified Electrician and a certificate should have been given to your landlord, you can tell if this has happened as there will be a sticker on the Main Consumer unit saying when it was last tested and by who. If not the house should not be rented out, and it is a breach of contract on thier behalf.

 

[Anonymous]

For an easy life, you could just trot down the road to your local computer store and buy an uninterruptible power supply or a decent surge protector strip.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the comments. Your help is really appreciated!

Ideally before heading off to the shop, or contacting landlord, I'm keen to get more of an understanding of what exactly is going on. So when for example someone plugs in say a table lamp in another part of the house, at the point that lamp plug is arching (thanks MattSPL), is it causing:

a sudden momentary drop in current at my hifi?
a sudden surge in current at my hifi?
general 'electrical interference'?
or something else?

To try to simplify my long winded first email - The problem is only a momentary cut out of sound - no hum or crackling ever experienced. The DAC's front lights remain on, except for the 'incoming sample rate' which flickers when the issue occurs. I know for a fact this occurs when plugs are arching, but may be happening in other circumstances (partly why I'm keen to know a little more info).

I have had my system (listed in bio) at this house for a couple of years with no issue. No other electrical equipment is effected, including my AV set up in the lounge. Problem only occurred after introducing a DAC. I am guessing what ever is happening is disturbing the signal on the coaxial cables(?), but am confused as to how this interference is only now noticeable and didn't effect the signal to the internal DAC on my CD player?

I currently have surge protection and some conditioning, as I use a Tacima, but assume this does nothing for a dip in power?

Once again many thanks for any thoughts!

 

[wireman]

idc:

Manassas:........ Unfortunately I can't really do any physical changes to the house electrics, as it is a rented property........

But your landlord can and if you can show that there is a problem with the mains and reasonable use with multiple occupancy, they may have to by law.
Yes, but there's no law against there being too few sockets in a house provided they are safe. As Manassas says:

Manassas:...there is also a distinct lack of plug sockets here, meaning lots of multi-plugs around the house...
and that suggests to me that the property is of an age where it wasn't designed to acommodate so many electrical appliances. You may be overloading the ring circuit in the property. Using lots of multi-plugs probably won't be helping your problem as their contacts can loosen up through use and cause the arching type of problems already described by MattSPL.

 

[MattSPL]

Hi Manassas, i had just written a reply to you last night and my internet went down just as i pressed post.

Back working today anyway.

As you were saying that somebody plugs a lamp in the other room it causes you problems, is the lamp an energy saving type? These can give off quite bad RFI which may upset your dac.

As for a drop in power, this could only be caused by something big being plugged in like an electric heater, a large power amp or an electric shower being turned on. You would generally see the lights in the house dim for a second if this was the case.

As wireman said, you could all be working off the same circuit and overloading it. Has anything ever tripped out at your fuse board?

If its just the dac that is affected and clicks or pops are heard then it doesnt really sound like an electrical problem. It is possible that the dac is very sensitive to a steady supply or RFI interference.

I suggest giving Russ Andrews a call and explain the situation to them. They may have seen this before and one of their plug in noise killers may solve your problem