Dynaudio 2/6 with NAD C356bee harsh!

[admin_exported]

This makes me very crazy, this hi fi world.

Today I own a pair of Dynaudio 2/6 and an old pair Wharfdale 10.1. My amp is Technics SU-V300, 35W something.

Earlier from today I thought my amp (Technics) was bright and harsh cause Ive tried Monitor Audio BX2 speakers at home which sounded very bright and hard on the ears. I returned the MAs and stayed with the much easier and nicer wharfedales.

One half year later, I bought Dynaudio 2/6 after an succesfull demo. Im happy with them except that I think the treble can be a bit hard on the ears sometimes (harder than the wharfedales, everything else is superb). To fix this I thought NAD could be a problem fixer as they are told to be "warm", "musically" and "easy on the ears".

This could have been the miracle, changing my old bright amp to the NAD...

I borrowed NAD C356bee for tonight and I must say that the bass got heavier and I got alot more power, BUT. The NAD is even sharper in the treble than my old amp and I just want to turn the volume down cause of the treble when a track pumps out of my speakers. I actually prefer my 15 year old cheap amp to this. Its also almost as punchy and detailed but much nicer, leaner on the ears.

I listened to the NAD earlier in the store with B&W 685 and I also thought it was a bit hard even then. It felt like the treble was a bit harder and higher than the rest, even if I wouldnt consider it bright.

So now, I dont know what to do..

I have earlier tried Rotel 06Se and 1520 in another shop before with my Dynaudios but I think its way to bright. But there isnt that many more options now. I liked Musical Fidelity M3i with the Dyns but I think its a bit too expensive for me. I also heard the Dyns with Musical Fidelity M6 which was a superb monster, but I will never spend that money... Sooo...

Denon? Marantz?

 

[plastic penguin]

Dynaudios tend to need a gutsy amp to hear them at their best. It sounds like the Nad isn't controlling the Dyns as well as they should. There was one forumite (ex) that had Marantz 7001 with your Dyns and loved it, although I've heard Naim Nait 5i is impressive with Dyns.

The alternative is to change the speakers for a brand less demanding: Focal, Epos, MA RX1 spring to mind.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

This makes me very crazy, this hi fi world.

Today I own a pair of Dynaudio 2/6 and an old pair Wharfdale 10.1. My amp is Technics SU-V300, 35W something.

Earlier from today I thought my amp (Technics) was bright and harsh cause Ive tried Monitor Audio BX2 speakers at home which sounded very bright and hard on the ears. I returned the MAs and stayed with the much easier and nicer wharfedales.

One half year later, I bought Dynaudio 2/6 after an succesfull demo. Im happy with them except that I think the treble can be a bit hard on the ears sometimes (harder than the wharfedales, everything else is superb). To fix this I thought NAD could be a problem fixer as they are told to be "warm", "musically" and "easy on the ears".

This could have been the miracle, changing my old bright amp to the NAD...

I borrowed NAD C356bee for tonight and I must say that the bass got heavier and I got alot more power, BUT. The NAD is even sharper in the treble than my old amp and I just want to turn the volume down cause of the treble when a track pumps out of my speakers. I actually prefer my 15 year old cheap amp to this. Its also almost as punchy and detailed but much nicer, leaner on the ears.

I listened to the NAD earlier in the store with B&W 685 and I also thought it was a bit hard even then. It felt like the treble was a bit harder and higher than the rest, even if I wouldnt consider it bright.

So now, I dont know what to do..

I have earlier tried Rotel 06Se and 1520 in another shop before with my Dynaudios but I think its way to bright. But there isnt that many more options now. I liked Musical Fidelity M3i with the Dyns but I think its a bit too expensive for me. I also heard the Dyns with Musical Fidelity M6 which was a superb monster, but I will never spend that money... Sooo...

Denon? Marantz?

Hi surferpat

What source component/s are you using please?

Interconnect/s and speaker cables are?

What do you generally listen to?

Your maximum budget for an amp is?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Dynaudios tend to need a gutsy amp to hear them at their best. It sounds like the Nad isn't controlling the Dyns as well as they should. There was one forumite (ex) that had Marantz 7001 with your Dyns and loved it, although I've heard Naim Nait 5i is impressive with Dyns.

The alternative is to change the speakers for a brand less demanding: Focal, Epos, MA RX1 spring to mind.

Hi plastic penguin

Leaving its tonal presentation aside the NAD C356BEE is more than capable of effectively driving/powering DM 2/6's. Btw, the DM 2/6's are not a reactive 4 ohm load.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Hello!

Im using an Imac, sometimes the inbuilt soundcard and sometimes my Audio 2 DJ soundcard (very good), the later one is a bit less hard on the ears. I have 2 different cables at home. 1 old crappy thick one that sounds a bit mellower than the other newer "Van Den Hul, The Clearwater".

It sound a bit better when using my television and PS3 as a source.

But anyhow... it sounded also very hard on the ears using B&W speakers in the shop with this NAD. Using 683 and 685.

Im listening to all sorts of music but right now more electronic. A good test if its too harsh is to put Deadmau5s "Raise your weapon" original mix. These vocals cuts through ears if the setup is trebly! This vocals are extreme... I know. But I dont play this track anymore, cause I cant stand the razor sound on the worst highs.

Ofcourse its a matter of taste also, I think the personel in the shop thought the hard treble sounded good Im just very sesitive to hard treble. I want it soft, yet detailed.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello!

Im using an Imac, sometimes the inbuilt soundcard and sometimes my Audio 2 DJ soundcard (very good), the later one is a bit less hard on the ears. I have 2 different cables at home. 1 old crappy thick one that sounds a bit mellower than the other newer "Van Den Hul, The Clearwater".

It sound a bit better when using my television and PS3 as a source.

But anyhow... it sounded also very hard on the ears using B&W speakers in the shop with this NAD. Using 683 and 685.

Im listening to all sorts of music but right now more electronic. A good test if its too harsh is to put Deadmau5s "Raise your weapon" original mix. These vocals cuts through ears if the setup is trebly! This vocals are extreme... I know. But I dont play this track anymore, cause I cant stand the razor sound on the worst highs.

Ofcourse its a matter of taste also, I think the personel in the shop thought the hard treble sounded good Im just very sesitive to hard treble. I want it soft, yet detailed.

It sounds like the Nad may not be your cuppa. Look at the suggestions I made, as it seems you need something slightly softer. I've heard this so many times about the Nads in general.

When I auditioned the 356 with my old Arcam it sounded like a boom box in comparison. Great if you're a bass head - look elsewhere if you're not.

 

[Anonymous]

I like bass and power, which I really think it has.. its just that that the treble seems to be a bit higher and harder than the rest and takes too much of my attention.

I really agree with MUSICRAFT about the NADs power, It has plenty and enough of it. Im not even near using its full potential.

This power, or a bit less.. with good bass and a sweeter treble is what Im looking for.

Maybe Im looking for a more laidback presentation amp... but I dont know which one to look for.

Maybe Marantz PM7004 or a Denon?

 

[Vortex160]

I like bass and power, which I really think it has.. its just that that the treble seems to be a bit higher and harder than the rest and takes too much of my attention.

I really agree with MUSICRAFT about the NADs power, It has plenty and enough of it. Im not even near using its full potential.

This power, or a bit less.. with good bass and a sweeter treble is what Im looking for.

Maybe Im looking for a more laidback presentation amp... but I dont know which one to look for.

Maybe Marantz PM7004 or a Denon?

ahh i have the same problem but with a totally different setup(MA Rx6 with a denon 791)

you were thinking about a denon to tame down the system thinking the nad was too harsh , on the other hand i was thinking to replace my denon with a nad to get a warmer sound!! , cheers to that!!!

this hi fi stuff is crazy!!! :dance:

 

[Vortex160]

I like bass and power, which I really think it has.. its just that that the treble seems to be a bit higher and harder than the rest and takes too much of my attention.

this is exactly what i feel like with my current setup , the highs feel more evident and pronounced then the rest of track ,it is really irritating , i have treble tone down to -6db right now which has made the slightest improvement.

i think the denon does not suit the MA rx6, might work with dynaudio who knows

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hello!

Im using an Imac, sometimes the inbuilt soundcard and sometimes my Audio 2 DJ soundcard (very good), the later one is a bit less hard on the ears. I have 2 different cables at home. 1 old crappy thick one that sounds a bit mellower than the other newer "Van Den Hul, The Clearwater".

It sound a bit better when using my television and PS3 as a source.

But anyhow... it sounded also very hard on the ears using B&W speakers in the shop with this NAD. Using 683 and 685.

Im listening to all sorts of music but right now more electronic. A good test if its too harsh is to put Deadmau5s "Raise your weapon" original mix. These vocals cuts through ears if the setup is trebly! This vocals are extreme... I know. But I dont play this track anymore, cause I cant stand the razor sound on the worst highs.

Ofcourse its a matter of taste also, I think the personel in the shop thought the hard treble sounded good Im just very sesitive to hard treble. I want it soft, yet detailed.

Hi surferpat

Thanks for your reply.

Are you also happy to consider a used/discontined amplification?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello!

Im using an Imac, sometimes the inbuilt soundcard and sometimes my Audio 2 DJ soundcard (very good), the later one is a bit less hard on the ears. I have 2 different cables at home. 1 old crappy thick one that sounds a bit mellower than the other newer "Van Den Hul, The Clearwater".

It sound a bit better when using my television and PS3 as a source.

But anyhow... it sounded also very hard on the ears using B&W speakers in the shop with this NAD. Using 683 and 685.

Im listening to all sorts of music but right now more electronic. A good test if its too harsh is to put Deadmau5s "Raise your weapon" original mix. These vocals cuts through ears if the setup is trebly! This vocals are extreme... I know. But I dont play this track anymore, cause I cant stand the razor sound on the worst highs.

Ofcourse its a matter of taste also, I think the personel in the shop thought the hard treble sounded good Im just very sesitive to hard treble. I want it soft, yet detailed.

Hi surferpat

Thanks for your reply.

Are you also happy to consider a used/discontined amplification?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Rotel by any chance? :shame:

 

[Anonymous]

Wow...

Never EVER heard anyone claim that NAD produces a harsh sound!

I demo'd the NAD C355BEE and C356BEE with the Dynaudio Excite 16's and the DM 2/6's and 2/7's and they were never harsh at all; even with music from an iPod and also an old Yamaha CD player!

 

[plastic penguin]

Wow...

Never EVER heard anyone claim that NAD produces a harsh sound!

I demo'd the NAD C355BEE and C356BEE with the Dynaudio Excite 16's and the DM 2/6's and 2/7's and they were never harsh at all; even with music from an iPod and also an old Yamaha CD player!

There has been a few threads about Nads being shrill, which I find very puzzling as they are pretty warm sounding.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah!

To me it has to be something with the cabling or room acoustics as NAD has a very level, detailed and wearm top-end. Not far from the Arcam sound really!

Very strange... :?

 

[kev g]

I too cannot believe that the Nad sounds harsh...

My father has an old Nad C320 with Mission 700 speakers, Yamaha cd, Qed cables & it sounds fine.

I don`t know if I`m allowed to put up a link to youtube on here but there is a demo of a Nad C355 amp, Nad C515 cd, with B&W CM8 speakers & even through the computer speakers it sounds great.

You don`t mention what cables you use.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I too cannot believe that the Nad sounds harsh...

My father has an old Nad C320 with Mission 700 speakers, Yamaha cd, Qed cables & it sounds fine.

I don`t know if I`m allowed to put up a link to youtube on here but there is a demo of a Nad C355 amp, Nad C515 cd, with B&W CM8 speakers & even through the computer speakers it sounds great.

You don`t mention what cables you use.

Hi kev g

surferpat is using -

I have 2 different cables at home. 1 old rubbish thick one that sounds a bit mellower than the other newer "Van Den Hul, The Clearwater".

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Frank Harvey]

There has been a few threads about Nads being shrill, which I find very puzzling as they are pretty warm sounding.

It's like those other puzzling threads - Pioneer, KEF, Cyrus etc etc...

 

[Anonymous]

Im listening to all sorts of music but right now more electronic. A good test if its too harsh is to put Deadmau5s "Raise your weapon" original mix. These vocals cuts through ears if the setup is trebly! This vocals are extreme... I know. But I dont play this track anymore, cause I cant stand the razor sound on the worst highs.

i just checked that song on youtube and all sound good on my setup, not harsh

 

[kevinJ]

Isn't that Technics a class A amp? 30watts tops I believe. (I had a folder about it 15 years or more ago, when I was looking for my first real hifi set)

What you might be experiencing is the change of sound over the years. Most "older" electronics were (very) warm sounding, because people always wanted a warm sound. The last 10 to 15 years, there's been a shift to more neutral to even bright sounding electronics.

Have you auditioned a valve amp? That might just be what you're looking for.

 

[poldo]

I did own the NAD + Monitor Audio rs6 and that was very very bright, but that was the speaker and not the amp. The NAD is very neutral with a little warmth at the top end. But if your speakers/source or maybe the record or cables are bright, yes...it wil sound bright.

Put on some nice records like Opeth - Damnation, Morphine-Cure for pain or Nick Cave - Boatmen's Call if that sound bright you have a bad system and you should chance some components.

 

[Blackdawn]

I think the Yamaha AS700 or AS1000 would be a good amp for you. No harsh treble and plenty of power on tap with good mid and bass. Theres always the Onkyo TX-8050 receiver, all three would be up to the job and a good alternatives to the NAD.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

This makes me very crazy, this hi fi world.

Today I own a pair of Dynaudio 2/6 and an old pair Wharfdale 10.1. My amp is Technics SU-V300, 35W something.

Earlier from today I thought my amp (Technics) was bright and harsh cause Ive tried Monitor Audio BX2 speakers at home which sounded very bright and hard on the ears. I returned the MAs and stayed with the much easier and nicer wharfedales.

One half year later, I bought Dynaudio 2/6 after an succesfull demo. Im happy with them except that I think the treble can be a bit hard on the ears sometimes (harder than the wharfedales, everything else is superb). To fix this I thought NAD could be a problem fixer as they are told to be "warm", "musically" and "easy on the ears".

This could have been the miracle, changing my old bright amp to the NAD...

I borrowed NAD C356bee for tonight and I must say that the bass got heavier and I got alot more power, BUT. The NAD is even sharper in the treble than my old amp and I just want to turn the volume down cause of the treble when a track pumps out of my speakers. I actually prefer my 15 year old cheap amp to this. Its also almost as punchy and detailed but much nicer, leaner on the ears.

I listened to the NAD earlier in the store with B&W 685 and I also thought it was a bit hard even then. It felt like the treble was a bit harder and higher than the rest, even if I wouldnt consider it bright.

So now, I dont know what to do..

I have earlier tried Rotel 06Se and 1520 in another shop before with my Dynaudios but I think its way to bright. But there isnt that many more options now. I liked Musical Fidelity M3i with the Dyns but I think its a bit too expensive for me. I also heard the Dyns with Musical Fidelity M6 which was a superb monster, but I will never spend that money... Sooo...

Denon? Marantz?

hi Surferpat. I thought I'd share some of my experience with you as I was in almost exactly the same situation some 1,5 years ago. at that time I owned Teac Referece 600 (CDP + receiver) and Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers for about 6 months. I really liked this combo. Diamonds do have very forgiving sound. I could live with this set up for a long time. but the Diamonds were meant to be only temporary solution until I had enough resources for speaker upgrade. I decided on Dynaudios. having auditioned Excite 12 on end of Teac Reference 500 I decided to buy Focus 110 (as you can see from my sig). Dynaudios are major improvement over Diamonds, especially in terms of resolution. I'm sure you can relate. but the problem with such speakers always is that you might hear more than you want to. I mean you can easily tell good sounding gear from sounding bad. so in the end it turned out that Teac Reference 600 was not for me. I think it was flawed in very similar way to how you experience your Nad. it wasn't exactly bright but there was something wrong with high frequencies that made me feel sick every time I was thinking about listening to music. this could be felt especially with sibilant sounds. so I decided to get myself a new, better amp as I couldn't believe that there might be anything wrong with the speakers. after hours of reading I decided to buy blind (not much choice above budget level where I live) Pathos Classic One mkIII (as you can see in my sig). and it was a bullseye! much faster, more detailed, smoother and also taunter presentation. simply organic and musical. after a couple of months I also bought Pathos Digit CDP and it improved things even more (to be honest I didn't expect much change when changing CDP. I just thought Classic One and Digit would look cool next to each other . aren't we vain, are we?).

so, all that English above was only an introduction so you could understand better what I want to tell you now. you say you liked Dynaudios driven by Musical Fidelity amps? well, don't waste your time and don't skimp on good quality amp, go and buy it! good quality sound is all about in hi-fi and if Dyns with MF work for you than you've got nothing to contemplate. otherwise you might never be satisfied which will only lock you in budget level gear "upgrading" to no avail. it's better to spend once well and be done with it than saving some change and eventually finding oneself looking for something else (which BTW may bring even bigger spending if you add it up)...

still, make sure you have a listen to some Denon or Marantz or whatever and see if it works for you. personally, I think you'll find it hard to compromise. >)

good luck!
so you could understand better

 

[the record spot]

Hmmm, which kind of makes sense right until the bit where you find that your £1300 amps (such as Leema's Pulse) or £1000 amps (such as Harman's HK990) can be closely matched by some of the budget stuff you put down to a degree. My current setup (and others I've had in the past) delivered what the Leema or the Harman did for a fraction of the cost.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Hmmm, which kind of makes sense right until the bit where you find that your £1300 amps (such as Leema's Pulse) or £1000 amps (such as Harman's HK990) can be closely matched by some of the budget stuff you put down to a degree. My current setup (and others I've had in the past) delivered what the Leema or the Harman did for a fraction of the cost.

well, maybe in this case it wouldn't be a bad idea to look outside of Leemas or other Harman Kardons of this world?

 

[the record spot]

Au contraire Oldric; I rate both brands highly - they make excellent products, properly engineered and measured - see Sean Olive's blog (of HK) if you need more info. I've heard both too.

You are right though; I suppose I could've tried out other gear, spent more and got a minimal improvement in sound quality. But I don't perceive the return I'd get could be considered as good value for the money spent. I get a high quality return as it is, all in for less than £1000. And it sounds better than you're prepared to give credit for. The loss isn't mine...

As I've said so often in recent years, you don't need to spend £4k to get a high end sound. Ah, sorry, as long as it's on certain brands that prop up your POV eh Oldric? Well, then it makes sense.

I heard an £11k system last year (at Audio Emotion in Fife) and while it was beautifully constructed and stonkingly expensive, the sound quality didn't have me sitting there thinking I should melt the credit card and buy it. Or even one half that price. The Perreaux amp was lovely, the speakers I can't recall who made them and the Antelope DAC was again a well crafted little box. The power conditioner seemed excessive (think it was about £1k) and so on and so forth. The speakers were about £6k or so. But listening to some piano didn't make me think the piano was real or in the room. The sound was turned up (as it so often is with these things) and it was perfectly detailed and a good recording, but it wasn't what you'd expect. The guys at AE were great though and the two hours went by in a flash. Well worth a visit and they won't force any of their products on you.

So I can't agree with your premise; IMO, it's a flawed perspective. Maybe once it might've been true, but no longer.