Are some better than others, or is it simply the driver / player interface that is critical when set up in s/pdif? What about USB drivers / cards, are some better than others, is it hardware, software, or both? If its software, where can you find about how to tweak them?
Do soundcards have any effect..?
- Thread starter SteveR750
- Start date
To be honest the general standard of built in stuff nowadays are really good. The better laptops for example have very good integrated ones that can produce 5.1 etc. They even process a good sound over HDMI (equipt laptops that is). The creative ones are really good but the general standard is quite high anyway you may struggle to hear a difference. Best bet is to use a good dac I suppose.
I'm assuming the one in mine isn't too nasty, as its touted as a media playing laptop (16" full HD screen, HDMI out, BDP etc), but i have never heard of realtek until the last work machine I had which has a cheaper looking one fitted, which has a fairly unpleasant sound quality full of interference and grainy treble
Soundcard SPDIF quality boils down to hardware/driver design. Providing the driver/hardware allows bit-perfect output via spdif, most soundcards should offer similar performance providing the receiving DAC can sort out any jitter issues correctly. Analogue output on the other hand via the mini-jacks will depend greatly on the design/quality of the DACs, output stage and quality of electrical components used (much the same as any piece of hi-fi equipment).
As a matter of interest, the AL88x Realtek onboard soundcards offer very good SPDIF output providing all DSP effects are disabled as bit-perfect ouput is possible up to 24bit/192khz. Their analogue performance for a 24bit card is best termed as average with signal to noise figures only marginally better than 16bit CD at just over 100db.
Contrast this with a PCI Xonar D2 card which offers very good PCM output due to quality Burr Brown DACs and properly designed analogue output stages that offer signal to noise figures of 115db which in practice gives very good dynamic sound (perfect for home cinema). However the SPDIF input and output is not bit-perfect on these cards.
Other high quality soundcards like the Auzentechs allow users to swap the op-amps in the output stages to tweak and improve the analogue ouput further.
But if it is solely a SPDIF route out of the PC you are looking for to an external DAC, then the Realtek onboard soundcards are as good as any, the only caveat being you usually have to manually set the sampling rate manually.
As a matter of interest, the AL88x Realtek onboard soundcards offer very good SPDIF output providing all DSP effects are disabled as bit-perfect ouput is possible up to 24bit/192khz. Their analogue performance for a 24bit card is best termed as average with signal to noise figures only marginally better than 16bit CD at just over 100db.
Contrast this with a PCI Xonar D2 card which offers very good PCM output due to quality Burr Brown DACs and properly designed analogue output stages that offer signal to noise figures of 115db which in practice gives very good dynamic sound (perfect for home cinema). However the SPDIF input and output is not bit-perfect on these cards.
Other high quality soundcards like the Auzentechs allow users to swap the op-amps in the output stages to tweak and improve the analogue ouput further.
But if it is solely a SPDIF route out of the PC you are looking for to an external DAC, then the Realtek onboard soundcards are as good as any, the only caveat being you usually have to manually set the sampling rate manually.
providing the receiving DAC can sort out any jitter issues correctly
Unless I am very mistaken, that's not at all certain due to the complex nature of syncing clocks, or "un syncing" and then re-clocking.
As a matter of interest, the AL88x Realtek onboard soundcards offer very good SPDIF output providing all DSP effects are disabled as bit-perfect ouput is possible up to 24bit/192khz. Their analogue performance
I'm not interested in its analogue output, only digital.
But if it is solely a SPDIF route out of the PC you are looking for to an external DAC, then the Realtek onboard soundcards are as good as any, the only caveat being you usually have to manually set the sampling rate manually.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. In this instance, MC15 does not resample, and bypasses any windows processes, so the data gets sent to the DAC in native rates. W7 allows you to set exclusive control from the software, so therefore so long as your media player is configured correctly it should be pretty good. It makes sense, the sound I am getting is very good.
Unless I am very mistaken, that's not at all certain due to the complex nature of syncing clocks, or "un syncing" and then re-clocking.
As a matter of interest, the AL88x Realtek onboard soundcards offer very good SPDIF output providing all DSP effects are disabled as bit-perfect ouput is possible up to 24bit/192khz. Their analogue performance
I'm not interested in its analogue output, only digital.
But if it is solely a SPDIF route out of the PC you are looking for to an external DAC, then the Realtek onboard soundcards are as good as any, the only caveat being you usually have to manually set the sampling rate manually.
Thanks for the info, much appreciated. In this instance, MC15 does not resample, and bypasses any windows processes, so the data gets sent to the DAC in native rates. W7 allows you to set exclusive control from the software, so therefore so long as your media player is configured correctly it should be pretty good. It makes sense, the sound I am getting is very good.
asimo82:Asus Xonar are fantastic they give Creatives cards a run for there money!
The only Creative card that sounds as good (some think better) as the Xonar is the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Unless I am very mistaken, that's not at all certain due to the complex
nature of syncing clocks, or "un syncing" and then re-clocking.
That is what I was getting at, but it all depends on how the DAC treats the incoming signal
The only Creative card that sounds as good (some think better) as the Xonar is the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Unless I am very mistaken, that's not at all certain due to the complex
nature of syncing clocks, or "un syncing" and then re-clocking.
That is what I was getting at, but it all depends on how the DAC treats the incoming signal
In short yes, but even better if you're using an outboard DAC with a good sound card. Having said that, if you can't replace your sound card as you use a laptop (or simply can't be bothered), the Audioengine W1 is an alternative USB wireless sound transmitter/receiver that doesn't cut out and offers exceptional sound thanks to USB connections. We've been using one in store for about 2 years on napster and it hasn't let us down yet (touch wood)
audioaffair:In short yes, but even better if you're using an outboard DAC with a good sound card. Having said that, if you can't replace your sound card as you use a laptop (or simply can't be bothered), the Audioengine W1 is an alternative USB wireless sound transmitter/receiver that doesn't cut out and offers exceptional sound thanks to USB connections. We've been using one in store for about 2 years on napster and it hasn't let us down yet (touch wood)
I'm not using the DAC part of the souncard - I used the term loosely for the audio device fited to the PC. I am using it set up to s/pdif optical out into a DACmagic. I was wondering if there is a difference in the devices when used purely in the digital domain.
I'm not using the DAC part of the souncard - I used the term loosely for the audio device fited to the PC. I am using it set up to s/pdif optical out into a DACmagic. I was wondering if there is a difference in the devices when used purely in the digital domain.
It can but its always worth listening for yourself as differences can of course differ based on the items in use. Some people don't hear differences over some comparisons that others can.
idc
Well-known member
SteveR750:
...
I'm not using the DAC part of the souncard - I used the term loosely for the audio device fited to the PC. I am using it set up to s/pdif optical out into a DACmagic. I was wondering if there is a difference in the devices when used purely in the digital domain.
That depends on whether jitter is audible or not. The 1s and 0s will either get through or they will not, that is a none issue despite what many speculate. Jitter, or the timing of the 1s and 0s is measurably different, but in pico seconds. A number of DAC makers have seized on that and the aim is to reduce jitter to as near to nothing as is possible. That, apparently makes for a better sound. But, whether that is actually the case is not really clear.
Firstly, can we hear jitter and secondly does jitter impact on sound quality? I would suggest that other parts of the hifi chain have a far greater impact.
...
I'm not using the DAC part of the souncard - I used the term loosely for the audio device fited to the PC. I am using it set up to s/pdif optical out into a DACmagic. I was wondering if there is a difference in the devices when used purely in the digital domain.
That depends on whether jitter is audible or not. The 1s and 0s will either get through or they will not, that is a none issue despite what many speculate. Jitter, or the timing of the 1s and 0s is measurably different, but in pico seconds. A number of DAC makers have seized on that and the aim is to reduce jitter to as near to nothing as is possible. That, apparently makes for a better sound. But, whether that is actually the case is not really clear.
Firstly, can we hear jitter and secondly does jitter impact on sound quality? I would suggest that other parts of the hifi chain have a far greater impact.
idc:
That depends on whether jitter is audible or not. The 1s and 0s will either get through or they will not, that is a none issue despite what many speculate. Jitter, or the timing of the 1s and 0s is measurably different, but in pico seconds. A number of DAC makers have seized on that and the aim is to reduce jitter to as near to nothing as is possible. That, apparently makes for a better sound. But, whether that is actually the case is not really clear.
Firstly, can we hear jitter and secondly does jitter impact on sound quality? I would suggest that other parts of the hifi chain have a far greater impact.
Agreed it's pretty inconclusive at what level jitter is audible, but the 1s and 0s don't simply either 'get through' or not, they are a time dependant signal, and if the time period is distorted then the analogue output is not going to be the same as the original - that is jitter. ADC and DAC accuracy is all about synchronising that sampling rate otherwise data is mis-read. It's a mistake to think that data cannot be corrupted or lost in the digital domain. Ultimately, using my ears, I know that using a PC produces a significantly improved sound over a pretty good performing CDP (CD6SE), most noticeably in HF region which is now totally free of harshness or sibilance. The only other change to the system was the DAC - and I doubt that the DACmagic is any better (if at all) than the DAC in the Cyrus. In any case, all of the changes in my system are in the digital signal processing, not analogue!
That depends on whether jitter is audible or not. The 1s and 0s will either get through or they will not, that is a none issue despite what many speculate. Jitter, or the timing of the 1s and 0s is measurably different, but in pico seconds. A number of DAC makers have seized on that and the aim is to reduce jitter to as near to nothing as is possible. That, apparently makes for a better sound. But, whether that is actually the case is not really clear.
Firstly, can we hear jitter and secondly does jitter impact on sound quality? I would suggest that other parts of the hifi chain have a far greater impact.
Agreed it's pretty inconclusive at what level jitter is audible, but the 1s and 0s don't simply either 'get through' or not, they are a time dependant signal, and if the time period is distorted then the analogue output is not going to be the same as the original - that is jitter. ADC and DAC accuracy is all about synchronising that sampling rate otherwise data is mis-read. It's a mistake to think that data cannot be corrupted or lost in the digital domain. Ultimately, using my ears, I know that using a PC produces a significantly improved sound over a pretty good performing CDP (CD6SE), most noticeably in HF region which is now totally free of harshness or sibilance. The only other change to the system was the DAC - and I doubt that the DACmagic is any better (if at all) than the DAC in the Cyrus. In any case, all of the changes in my system are in the digital signal processing, not analogue!
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