Digital Interconnects with WiFi

[admin_exported]

I am streaming music from my Mac to an AE, then from AE to DAC via optical cable.

Been thinking about spending on a 5 star interconnect (AE to DAC). Looking at the WHF reviews I see a wide range of recommendations from 2 to 5 stars, and from the descriptions some significant differences in sound.

Then I thought, am I wasting my time trying to improve the last 0.5m of digital transmission, wouldn't the sound quality be more influenced by how many doors are open between my office and my lounge, or people walking around; (not noticed a difference).

Can anyone help me understand:

Can SQ be influenced during the WiFi transmission, if so how should I maximise the quality?

To appreciate the difference between digital interconnects do I need to directly connect my DAC to my Mac?

 

[Anonymous]

No replies?

Either I posted when everyone was driving home or my questions were not clear.

I am interested to know if I need a 100% wired set-up to appreciate the benefits of high performance digital interconnects?

.....or is WiFi better than any digital cable so I would be better off with a DAC/Amp combo with built in wireless receiver?

 

[John Duncan]

This is a thorny question. Intuitively I think that wireless is just as good as wired, given a strong signal. But as you point out, that signal can be affected by a lot of things, and a wired network makes that go away. I ended up buying an Apple TV just so that I could get rid of the networking bit, as sometimes mine is a bit flaky.

The thing to do is connect your DAC to your Mac and compare the two - I plugged mine into my laptop briefly and thought it sounded magnificent, so I think there could be something in it...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your thoughts.

Good point about connecting my DAC to my Mac, I would need to move my Mac to within 0.5m of my DAC, then if I did a back to back listening test there would only be 0.5m between the Mac and the AE.

Before I start has anyone compared WiFi (via AE) with directly connecting a Mac to the DAC?

 

[John Duncan]

Not for a long time, so it would be unfair to make a judgement I think.

 

[The_Lhc]

Wired or wireless, it's still just ethernet using the TCP/IP protocol. The DATA (because that's all it is, it ISN'T music) will either get to the AE or it won't. If it doesn't it'll be resent.

Doors open or shut as long as the signal strength is strong enough to allow the data to be streamed at the required rate for the AE to convert it into a PCM signal with no breaks there will be NO effect on the sound quality at all.

None.

Nothing.

FUGGEDABOUDID.

 

[professorhat]

Veri:Before I start has anyone compared WiFi (via AE) with directly connecting a Mac to the DAC?

Yup, and in my setup I can't tell the difference between wireless streaming and direct connection. the_lhc is spot on really, you might get a pause in the music if the signal drops below a certain level because any errors can't be resent fast enough to ensure the music keeps playing. But if the signal is strong enough, there's no reason why it should be different and there won't be any pauses as the bandwidth is fast enough to allow errors to be resent in time.

The reason for this is because data sent wirelessly via the Airport Express is sent differently to music being sent directly via an optical cable - wireless transmission via the AE uses TCP/IP which has huge amounts of error control to ensure the data received is exactly the same as the data sent. That's why this protocol is used for internet traffic. Music sent via an optical cable is not sent in this way, which is why differing quality optical cables can have an influence on the sound.

 

[Anonymous]

The only possible differences here is bits and MHz.

Apple's AirPort and Apple TV systems are limited to 'CD quality': 16bits/44.1kHz.

An optical cable has no such limitations.

Most decent DACs accept 24bit/96kHz from TOSlink connections.

Whether you'll hear a difference between 24bit/96kHz and 16bit/44.1kHz, is different question. My bet is you can't. If you don't use 24bits sound files, it's no more than an academic question.

WiFi is a better solution than USB cable anyway. With a few (and typically expensive) exceptions, DACs only accepts 16bits signal via USB, and the metal wire connection from your computer might introduce electrical noise in your hi-fi system -- so it's no improvement from a wireless solution; only a possible source if trouble. OK, so it eliminates glitches -- but so does a correct router set-up and careful positioning of the wi-fi devices.

It's obvious that most people doesn't understand the basics of digital sound technology. Here, the 'sound' is sent as sequences of electrical 'ons' and 'offs'. These signals are processed in the receiving end, and possible faults are corrected. There's no way the sound can be gradually deteriorated -- it's either perfect, or the fault will be very obvious. So, in terms of sound quality the cable doesn't matter. Whether it's cabled or wireless doesn't matter (unless the wireless signal are compressed -- which is only done with BlueTooth devices).

Of course there's people who claim to hear differences between different connections; even if they're digital. There's lots of explanations for this, but they're connected with room acoustics, human perception, and psychology -- not with sound engineering.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks again for you insights....

There appear to be 2 slightly different answers:

Neither cable or WiFi transmission will influence the digital domain (providing no drop-outs are experienced).

or the cable part has more influence than the WiFi part, which would imply the best solution is to avoid the interconnect, and use an integrated DAC/AMP with built in WiFi receiver.

Basically I was so put off by reading a review of a 2 star digital interconnect, thinking if my cheap interconnect is doing that to the sound I should be considering a cable upgrade or think about solutions that avoid the interconnect.

 

[The_Lhc]

Veri:Thanks again for you insights....
There appear to be 2 slightly different answers:

Neither cable or WiFi transmission will influence the digital domain (providing no drop-outs are experienced).

Not quite, there's plenty of flavours of digital. The network part will have no influence on the sound quality, at all, so you really don't need to worry about that, in the same way you wouldn't worry about it with a CD player.

or the cable part has more influence than the WiFi part, which would imply the best solution is to avoid the interconnect, and use an integrated DAC/AMP with built in WiFi receiver.

If such a thing exists that would be very good, however I think you're worrying unduly for the sake of one cable.

Basically I was so put off by reading a review of a 2 star digital interconnect, thinking if my cheap interconnect is doing that to the sound I should be considering a cable upgrade or think about solutions that avoid the interconnect.

Do you have a problem with the sound at the moment? If not then why worry? If you really want to test it see if you can get a 5-star cable to demo and try it for yourself, you might hear a difference, you might not, you'll only know if you try.

 

[Anonymous]

I became worried after reading "Small, congested sound, lacks bass weight, speed, energy" when describing a digital interconnect.

From the information you (and others) have provided, and the fact that I am happy with the way my system sounds, I am no longer concerned about this and will probably not bother trying different interconnects.

Thanks for saving me the time and money.