Denon DVD-A1UD

[admin_exported]

It's the world's first Universal BluRay player.

Really? Then what do all the other BluRay players do? Before What Hi-Fi have even reviewed the world's most expensive player the DVD3800BD, which appears to play all the disc formats imaginable, an even more expensive player is being launched, by the same company!!

So have Denon screwed up with the 3800? Is there something flawed in this machine that the A1UD corrects?

The urge to create a yet more expensive, yet more incredibly heavy and enormous box, to do the exact same job as some of the most expensive players in this day and age is looking more and more like ..... well you guys tell me what you think it looks like! I'll try not to prejudice this page! LOL.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Will Harris:It's the world's first Universal BluRay player.

Really? Then what do all the other BluRay players do? Before What Hi-Fi have even reviewed the world's most expensive player the DVD3800BD, which appears to play all the disc formats imaginable, an even more expensive player is being launched, by the same company!!

So have Denon screwed up with the 3800? Is there something flawed in this machine that the A1UD corrects?

The urge to create a yet more expensive, yet more incredibly heavy and enormous box, to do the exact same job as some of the most expensive players in this day and age is looking more and more like ..... well you guys tell me what you think it looks like! I'll try not to prejudice this page! LOL.

You are missing the point of the UD machine Will. Until now, no BD player has been able to play DVD audio or SACD, let alone both. Denon have produced a machine that would replace two maybe even three boxes for some people.

 

[Anonymous]

I see. That must be worth a couple of grand, easy.

Forgive me please for what I'm about to say. Question is, does it do anything better than the DVD3800BD when it comes to DVDs and BDs? I may be a little cynical when I suggest the following. The A1UD will be tested and found to be supperior to the 3800 for BD and DVD and I'd love to know how. The price will be the guide. There is a long running theme that seems so far to be infallible, which states that if it's RRP is higher, it must be better. After all, can you name many instances of a product from one price range being held up as superior to that in another price-range?

One day, someone will rate products irrespective of cost. An "absolute" quality appraisal and allow us to determine if an extra 1% of quality is worth a 40% price increase. Until that day, we have this rather subjective star system with value for money causing objective criteria to be left to one side and in my view confusing the issue.

Do many people think that the capabilities of DVD Audio and SACD, which can be found in numerous much much cheaper machines (and to which no-one I've ever met listen to) require such an enormous price hike over the 3800?

[Will shakes his head and wonders when the hoodwinking of the general public will end].

 

[Clare Newsome]

How on earth is our star rating system 'subjective' when it's based on performance per pound criteria? Subjective because it's our opinion, yes, but the fact that every product we test is comparatively reviewed against both its immediate competitors and the next up/down rivals makes it a damn sight more objective than some testing I can think of.

And yes, there are many, many examples of cheaper products outgunning pricier ones - that's why, for example, the Yamaha 863 AV amp (avaialble for £450ish) can beat many amps up £1000 (which is why many of those amps are getting lower star ratings - they just don't represent good value).

Also, one minute you're boggling at how anything costing as much as the Denon could be worth it, the next you want us to rank stuff according to 'absolute' performance. In that system, the true bargains of the world - the entry-level products that perform amazingly for their price - would never get a look in.

Sorry Will, but please don't confuse Denon's marketing, technical and design decisions with our (as yet unwritten) reviews of eiher of the high-end products from them you mention.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry for offending you Clare and I don't wish to pre-judge you and your team's verdict on the A1UD but an "absolute" performance guide would give us exactly the information we need to make our own minds up as to whether a product is worth it's price tag.

And as to the Yamaha beating £1000 receivers, why don't you tell us which ones? Allow me to suggest one possible explanation, because it would allow us to interpolate your value for money star system and make our own judgements. Would this be so wrong?

We want you to rate the products, but insisting on your version of "value for money" means you never know whether a £500 5* product is just microns away from a £1000 3* product or light years. If you gave us an occasional complete pecking order of absolute quality, irrespective of value for money, then we could make our own minds up as to whether 1% improvement is worth £300 or £3000 pounds more money.

Please don't take offence that this is the view I hold. We're entitled to differ.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

Will Harris:I see. That must be worth a couple of grand, easy.

Forgive me please for what I'm about to say. Question is, does it do anything better than the DVD3800BD when it comes to DVDs and BDs? I may be a little cynical when I suggest the following. The A1UD will be tested and found to be supperior to the 3800 for BD and DVD and I'd love to know how. The price will be the guide. There is a long running theme that seems so far to be infallible, which states that if it's RRP is higher, it must be better. After all, can you name many instances of a product from one price range being held up as superior to that in another price-range?

One day, someone will rate products irrespective of cost. An "absolute" quality appraisal and allow us to determine if an extra 1% of quality is worth a 40% price increase. Until that day, we have this rather subjective star system with value for money causing objective criteria to be left to one side and in my view confusing the issue.

Do many people think that the capabilities of DVD Audio and SACD, which can be found in numerous much much cheaper machines (and to which no-one I've ever met listen to) require such an enormous price hike over the 3800?

[Will shakes his head and wonders when the hoodwinking of the general public will end].

Will. The Denon DVD A1 cost £2800 about 5 or 6 years ago and plays the lot (apart from BD of course). Denon have brought out a high end BD transport and a high end BD player this year. Neither played DVD audio or SACD. They now bring out a top end BD player that can play this formats as well as, I would imagine, excel at cd playback and probably has a digital in so that you can use the DAC for other sources. You may not have met someone that plays DVD audio or SACD but there are many. We have had a lot on here recently asking when a universal player would be coming out. In my opinion, Denon is just doing what they have been doing over the past few years - covering the top end in the AV player market.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Will Harris: If you gave us an occasional complete pecking order of absolute quality, irrespective of value for money, then we could make our own minds up as to whether 1% improvement is worth £300 or £3000 pounds more money.

But that's exactly what our Best Buys and Awards do, Will - they list the very best, ascending in price order. The price bands indicate the jump in money you have to invest to get (in our opinion) a worthwhile jump in performance.

And sorry, but our reviews regularly reference other products that offer worse/better value at different price points - both in the text and 'Also Consider' panel. Take, for example, the 37in Pioneer LCD we reviewed and gave four stars to - we clearly said we felt it was an excellent TV, but not worth the premium over superb sets that cost considerably less.

Anyhow, we've discussed this topic many, many times, and I think we're going to have to agree to differ!

 

[Anonymous]

Too pricey for me! But i cant wait for the trickle down technology from the the big denon to become more afforable as i own quite a number of sacd and dvd audio disk myself!!!!! I'll give someone a grand for one ;-) got a demo version hanging around clare???

 

[Clare Newsome]

It's not out until March, so I wouldn't expect a review sample until the new year - and i'd expect it to be a centrepiece of Denon's demo at the Bristol Sound and Vision Show in February

 

[Anonymous]

I can't see many people spending much more than £1,000 on a Bluray player. I certainly wouldn't. IF they made the BD side of the players multi region, then i might invest in a nice one, but i still wouldn't spend much more than £1,500. And i have expensive tastes.

 

[jase fox]

4LKN4:I can't see many people spending much more than £1,000 on a Bluray player. I certainly wouldn't. IF they made the BD side of the players multi region, then i might invest in a nice one, but i still wouldn't spend much more than £1,500. And i have expensive tastes.I have to agree with you here as i dont think theres no need to pay more than a grand for a bluray player, i own the Denon 2500bt transport to me its absolutely excellent with both bluray & dvds alike, if i were to want more than the Denon 2500 then thered be no pleasing me as why on earth would i want better?? i suppose Denon etc has to aim at the millionaires we now have ever since the lottery started, as most of em do have more money than sense & to be fair if i was a millionaire id most likely buy it just for the hell of it & im sure denon are also aware of this haha, as for SACD?? does that format still exist? lol i thought that went the way of mini disc? I suppose at the end of the day its down to what you want & how much your prepared to spend but a grand is more than enough for any component, unless your wanting to acommodate a football stadium ha

 

[Gerrardasnails]

jase fox:4LKN4:I can't see many people spending much more than £1,000 on a Bluray player. I certainly wouldn't. IF they made the BD side of the players multi region, then i might invest in a nice one, but i still wouldn't spend much more than £1,500. And i have expensive tastes.I have to agree with you here as i dont think theres no need to pay more than a grand for a bluray player, i own the Denon 2500bt transport to me its absolutely excellent with both bluray & dvds alike, if i were to want more than the Denon 2500 then thered be no pleasing me as why on earth would i want better?? i suppose Denon etc has to aim at the millionaires we now have ever since the lottery started, as most of em do have more money than sense & to be fair if i was a millionaire id most likely buy it just for the hell of it & im sure denon are also aware of this haha, as for SACD?? does that format still exist? lol i thought that went the way of mini disc? I suppose at the end of the day its down to what you want & how much your prepared to spend but a grand is more than enough for any component, unless your wanting to acommodate a football stadium ha

Most people wouldn't have paid over £1k for a dvd player, let alone £2k. Yet, Meridian, Naim, Arcam, Denon among others all produced and sold many in that price range - and all those companies are better known for audio than they are for visual. Does this not say a lot? I'm sure Arcam will come up with a BD player soon that is over £1k and is excellent with cds too.

 

[jase fox]

Gerrardasnails:jase fox:4LKN4:I can't see many people spending much more than £1,000 on a Bluray player. I certainly wouldn't. IF they made the BD side of the players multi region, then i might invest in a nice one, but i still wouldn't spend much more than £1,500. And i have expensive tastes.I have to agree with you here as i dont think theres no need to pay more than a grand for a bluray player, i own the Denon 2500bt transport to me its absolutely excellent with both bluray & dvds alike, if i were to want more than the Denon 2500 then thered be no pleasing me as why on earth would i want better?? i suppose Denon etc has to aim at the millionaires we now have ever since the lottery started, as most of em do have more money than sense & to be fair if i was a millionaire id most likely buy it just for the hell of it & im sure denon are also aware of this haha, as for SACD?? does that format still exist? lol i thought that went the way of mini disc? I suppose at the end of the day its down to what you want & how much your prepared to spend but a grand is more than enough for any component, unless your wanting to acommodate a football stadium ha

Most people wouldn't have paid over £1k for a dvd player, let alone £2k. Yet, Meridian, Naim, Arcam, Denon among others all produced and sold many in that price range - and all those companies are better known for audio than they are for visual. Does this not say a lot? I'm sure Arcam will come up with a BD player soon that is over £1k and is excellent with cds too.Im sure Arcam will come up with one soon but i havnt heard a dvd / bluray player that comes close to playing cds than a good dedicated cd player? & ive done an A & b comparison with the majority thats not to say that some have come very close but not as good as a dedicated cd player all the same, but im sure the majority of AV & hifi fans like myself would rather have a dedicated cd player anyway, or is that just my way of thinking?

 

[Gerrardasnails]

jase fox:Gerrardasnails:jase fox:4LKN4:I can't see many people spending much more than £1,000 on a Bluray player. I certainly wouldn't. IF they made the BD side of the players multi region, then i might invest in a nice one, but i still wouldn't spend much more than £1,500. And i have expensive tastes.I have to agree with you here as i dont think theres no need to pay more than a grand for a bluray player, i own the Denon 2500bt transport to me its absolutely excellent with both bluray & dvds alike, if i were to want more than the Denon 2500 then thered be no pleasing me as why on earth would i want better?? i suppose Denon etc has to aim at the millionaires we now have ever since the lottery started, as most of em do have more money than sense & to be fair if i was a millionaire id most likely buy it just for the hell of it & im sure denon are also aware of this haha, as for SACD?? does that format still exist? lol i thought that went the way of mini disc? I suppose at the end of the day its down to what you want & how much your prepared to spend but a grand is more than enough for any component, unless your wanting to acommodate a football stadium ha

Most people wouldn't have paid over £1k for a dvd player, let alone £2k. Yet, Meridian, Naim, Arcam, Denon among others all produced and sold many in that price range - and all those companies are better known for audio than they are for visual. Does this not say a lot? I'm sure Arcam will come up with a BD player soon that is over £1k and is excellent with cds too.Im sure Arcam will come up with one soon but i havnt heard a dvd / bluray player that comes close to playing cds than a good dedicated cd player? & ive done an A & b comparison with the majority thats not to say that some have come very close but not as good as a dedicated cd player all the same, but im sure the majority of AV & hifi fans like myself would rather have a dedicated cd player anyway, or is that just my way of thinking?

The Arcam DV139 would play cds better than your CD73. Most of us wouldn't bother demoing a £2-3k dvd or BD player as we couldn't afford it but there are many that would operate very well as a cd player. Mr E has the Naim DVD5 and it's supposed to be another excellent player of cds. My point is that there is obviously a market out there for high end players that cover all or most bases or just dvd/BD and cd. Otherwise, Arcam, Denon, Meridian, Naim and others would not have produced high end players in the past.

 

[professorhat]

Just to put an end to the arguments, there is absolutely a market for high end players. I myself bought the Denon DVD-A1 DVD player Gerrard mentions above (costing me £2,500) a few years back and I am in no way a millionaire I can assure you (just a fan of credit!). Everyone I knew at the time thought I was insane as DVD players could be picked up for £50 at that point (I in fact had a £70 Toshiba DVD player in my bedroom). However, at the time, it was the pinnacle of pictures I had seen and I bought it from Sevenoaks in Croydon after a long viewing session of different players.
It's for this very reason I stick with the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player at the moment (as I did the PS2 as a DVD player before purchasing the Denon). Until I see a high end player to really make me sit up and take notice, I don't really see a point in spending £500 for a mid-price Blu-Ray player which gives me a slightly better picture. I'd much rather spend anything up to £3,000 (if necessary) on a high end player which blows my mind - that to me is value for money. I know not everyone thinks that way, but it's my priority in life.

 

[jase fox]

professorhat:Just to put an end to the arguments, there is absolutely a market for high end players. I myself bought the Denon DVD-A1 DVD player Gerrard mentions above (costing me £2,500) a few years back and I am in no way a millionaire I can assure you (just a fan of credit!). Everyone I knew at the time thought I was insane as DVD players could be picked up for £50 at that point (I in fact had a £70 Toshiba DVD player in my bedroom). However, at the time, it was the pinnacle of pictures I had seen and I bought it from Sevenoaks in Croydon after a long viewing session of different players.
It's for this very reason I stick with the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player at the moment (as I did the PS2 as a DVD player before purchasing the Denon). Until I see a high end player to really make me sit up and take notice, I don't really see a point in spending £500 for a mid-price Blu-Ray player which gives me a slightly better picture. I'd much rather spend anything up to £3,000 (if necessary) on a high end player which blows my mind - that to me is value for money. I know not everyone thinks that way, but it's my priority in life.

I totally agree with you prof hat that there is a call for high end players but i dont think theres no need to spend that kind of cash these days as technology as got much better value for money, ive seen this latest denon priced at £3,300 ! & yes i am aware it isnt out yet but this is a pre launch pricing, take the denon 2500 i own, it cost me £800 new & you wouldnt want to even look for better once youve seen this machine up & running, its outstanding!! so if anyone were to want to buy this latest denon compared to the price of the 2500 that would leave you £2,500 for SACD, DVD A & hopefully a belting cd player! Anyway ive done my homework, & these forums are all about our own opinions were most of the time its easier to agree to disagree & as for you prof hat not only have i found with you that your very knowledgeable & always a pleasure to have your opinions etc but yes, you are also a fan of credit !! lol

 

[Anonymous]

jase fox - you have the denon 2500 transport. I am thinking of buying one to replace the PS3 & Arcam DV88. The only thing I can't get an answer on is the ability to play Region 1 DVD's. Not bothered about blu-ray region free just DVD. Have you tried R1? Do you know of a hack?