Hi all, I currently have use B&W 685 S2 speakers (which I intend to keep) with Cambridge Audio Azur 651A amplifier. I am thinking to add an Arcam irDAC to the system. Do you think it's a good idea? The other option would be to sell the Cambridge, add the money for the DAC and buy an amplifier in the £800-900 range, that already has an integrated DAC. Will the Arcam irDAC work fine later if I decide to upgrade to a an amplifier that already has an integrated DAC? Thanks for reading!
DAC or Amplifier Upgrade
- Thread starter nonpattern
- Start date
nonpattern said:
I guess it will depend on your sources and what you think is lacking in your system right now.
The budget and middle market seems to be moving away from separate dacs, as you say a lot of amplifiers have them built in and separate dacs are begining to look rather expensive
In the new Cambridge CX range all the amps and recievers have built in dacs and their CD player does not, it is purely a transport. For the price you are quoting their are a fair few amps that have digital inputs, Cambridge as mentioned, Creek 50a, Quad Vena, Peachtree are standout options and there are more mainstream models too.
rainsoothe
Well-known member
1. is there anything you don't like about your CA + B&W system?
2. what will you be using the DAC with? PC/laptop, or bluray or tv or whatnot?
3. What kind of music do you listen to, and what kind of sound (very forwards, or more relaxed, or warm, or crisp and detailed etc)
2. what will you be using the DAC with? PC/laptop, or bluray or tv or whatnot?
3. What kind of music do you listen to, and what kind of sound (very forwards, or more relaxed, or warm, or crisp and detailed etc)
davedotco said:
Thanks for the reply!
I play music from the computer over USB through a cheap cable, if that is what you mean by sources. I check out the amp models you mentioned.
rainsoothe said:
1. Well, I can't describe it, but I know I listened other systems and I feel that something is missing.
2. PC, maybe tv in the future, but not very important in the decision.
3. metal/rock - fast and loud production most of the time, so very forwards I guess, but also very dense, so detail is probably needed.
That gives a better idea. The usb dac in the 651A is not the most up to date and sophisticated and improvements can be made, but at a price. The irDac is technically better but the quality difference will be quite small for a substantial outlay, the Arcam presentation will be different and may appeal in the short term, but essentially you are not moving things that far forward.
To be honest you setup looks quite well balanced so small changes might not make that much difference, a lot depends on the music you are playing, maybe your current setup is simply too refined?
To be honest you setup looks quite well balanced so small changes might not make that much difference, a lot depends on the music you are playing, maybe your current setup is simply too refined?
rainsoothe
Well-known member
nonpattern said:
Metal/rock you say? Then Arcam iRdac + Naim Nait 5si (or used XS2), or Hegel H80 (which has a - VERY GOOD - built in DAC) would be my main suggestions. Audition them if you can, but the Hegel seems to be what you're looking for - if audition is not possible but you can get a hometrial from some web-store, you should check it out, lots praise it for "bang for buck"-ness.
There are several good amplifiers with built in DACs, like Naim SuperNait mark 1, or you could look at all digital amplifiers such as NAD C390DD. Digital amplifiers would help to keep the number of boxes down and can be very flexible - in the case of the NAD C390DD it has MDC modules which can offer extra features like HDMI.
davedotco said:
Thanks again, I am leaning towards not buying a separate DAC now, as that is exactly what I feared: not much difference at twice the price.
"Too refined" - no. I'm not looking for that wall of sound kind of thing. I was recommended Cerwin-Vega speakers for the type of music I'm listening, but I didn't like them as they created that loud concet type of sound, powerful but not detailed at all.
rainsoothe said:
Thanks for suggestions, I haven't heard the amplifiers you mention. I'll definetely try the Hegel since there's an dealer across the street. I would preffer on box instead of two
wilro15 said:
Thanks, I should give Naims a listen, since almost everybody recomends them
NAD C390DD looks tempting with all those connections that I may need in the future. But I would still choose based on sound quality.
rainsoothe
Well-known member
nonpattern said:rainsoothe said:
Thanks for suggestions, I haven't heard the amplifiers you mention. I'll definetely try the Hegel since there's an dealer across the street. I would preffer on box instead of two
lol, talk about lucky!
)The Hegel amplifiers are still quite rare in the uk but are getting a very good reputation amongst those who have been lucky enough to hear them.
Not cheap though, there are several very good amplifiers that have comparable power and functionality at around half the price so you would need good reasons to pay the extra. Undoubtably it is a quality product but you would need to audition to see whether it is worth it for you. If you have a dealer close by, give it a go.
Not cheap though, there are several very good amplifiers that have comparable power and functionality at around half the price so you would need good reasons to pay the extra. Undoubtably it is a quality product but you would need to audition to see whether it is worth it for you. If you have a dealer close by, give it a go.
SteveR750
Well-known member
Another option would be to buy a used cambridge audio dacmagic, or the dacmagic plus if you want to use headphones too. Much cheaper than an irdac new or used, and just as good if not technically better. I think you'd find it a noticeable improvement over your current setup. I've not heard the H80, but it's clear from the H160 they know how to make an integrated DAC/preamp work very well indeed.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi Dave
Hegel's good reputation is fully deserved
Btw, have you heard their electronics?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Hegel's good reputation is fully deserved
Btw, have you heard their electronics?
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT said:
Sadly not, I do not get into hi-fi stores that often these days. The fact that it is being talked about as being in the same class as Electrocompaniet is encouraging. Electro' remains one of my favourite amplifier brands.
Anyway, my attention (for my own use) has been grabbed by active monitors of various types. I recently got to hear the Unity Audio 'The Rock' in it's latest guise, sounded fantastic and I am trying to pull some strings to get hands on a pair.
Price is about £2.4k, or around the price of the H80 with suitable speakers, more or less.
newworld
Well-known member
Only heard the hegel 160 and am saving for one but i also listen to heavy metel and grunge etc and hegel does thi well as they handle distortion well. A reviewer described it cleaning your music collection
SteveR750
Well-known member
davedotco said:
I have already plotted my next move. Bigger active ATCs, as much as I am reasonably confident the Hegel is a better solution with the passive SCM40s than their own SIA250, even if it's just because it's a thousand quid cheaper; I'm planning a day of comparing my system with the active SCM40s. Part of the conundrum is finding a suitable dac preamp.
Morning Steve,
I appreciate that, for a variety of reasons, ATC have a much higher profile among hi-fi folk than many other pro speakers but there are a fair few speakers in the marketplace that will give them a run for their money, and at lower prices too.
Big studio speakers are rarely suited for home use, unless you have a well treated room so I tend to put the practicle limit in the £2-4k range. The Event Opal gets frequent mentions on here and is a fine speaker when properly set up but in the last year or so I have been particularly taken with the PMC TwoTwo series and the aformentioned Unity Audio speakers.
I have not had any hands on, but the Genelec 8040 and 8050 models are highly regarded in the pro world so are worth a look too, there are some seriously good speakers out there, but often not that easy to find and hear.
Dac pre-amps at this level are easy, get a Benchmark, whichever models has the facilities you need.
I appreciate that, for a variety of reasons, ATC have a much higher profile among hi-fi folk than many other pro speakers but there are a fair few speakers in the marketplace that will give them a run for their money, and at lower prices too.
Big studio speakers are rarely suited for home use, unless you have a well treated room so I tend to put the practicle limit in the £2-4k range. The Event Opal gets frequent mentions on here and is a fine speaker when properly set up but in the last year or so I have been particularly taken with the PMC TwoTwo series and the aformentioned Unity Audio speakers.
I have not had any hands on, but the Genelec 8040 and 8050 models are highly regarded in the pro world so are worth a look too, there are some seriously good speakers out there, but often not that easy to find and hear.
Dac pre-amps at this level are easy, get a Benchmark, whichever models has the facilities you need.
Hegel 160 is too expensive for me right now. But I'll try to give it a listen at the dealer and compare it with H80.
Hugh56
Well-known member
is far and away better than the rDac it replaced in my system, bass is still big but more controlled and more detail in the upper-mid. I haven't heard the CA DAC so can't comment. The irDac routes all my digital sources, my Yam CD DAC is ok but it doesn't take too much insight to quickly realise the Arcam wipes it basically, although everything I have is now on a WDTV with a big hard drive. I also listen to mainly rock/metal/prog so go audition some gear - good luck!
Hugh56
Well-known member
The B&W 685 S2 are excellant speakers, however they are a bit bass light.
I would go for a best dac you can afford, such as Chord Qute EX or HD for its bass quality and a serviced Naim Nait 3 to save money. Don't forget the NAC05 cable. The Nait 3 sounds as nearly as good as the 5si and you can fit phono boards.
To save money further, I suggest using a Raspberry Pi/Hifiberry Digi + for a Streamer. You will be amazed.
I would go for a best dac you can afford, such as Chord Qute EX or HD for its bass quality and a serviced Naim Nait 3 to save money. Don't forget the NAC05 cable. The Nait 3 sounds as nearly as good as the 5si and you can fit phono boards.
To save money further, I suggest using a Raspberry Pi/Hifiberry Digi + for a Streamer. You will be amazed.
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