Iv been reading about dacs today...and I wondered if you had a cheapish CD player with a digital out would a nice expensive dac make a massive difference to the quality of sound?
DAC - make a cheap CD player sound like an expensive CD player?
- Thread starter mushroomgod
- Start date
Depending on the cheapness of the player, and the expensiveness(?) of the DAC, very probably.
Other options:
Just buy a decent CD player
Just buy a DAC and use your computer as a source
Other options:
Just buy a decent CD player
Just buy a DAC and use your computer as a source
I guess you should loan one and find out, I really couldn't say, it will be based on the inner circuitry of the dac, I think it might improve the sound of a budget cd player definitely but not sure if it better the performance (when using the cd player as transport) of a more expensive cd player.
idc
Well-known member
I think that this is a very good question and worthy of further discussion. There was a while where CDPs were being split into transport and DAC, but a check of the reviews on What hifi and a google of CD transports does not produce very much. The google search does find CDP transports are available, for £1495, £1897.50 and £7495. There are forum members who use DVD players as transports and DACs to listen to music. So, why not buy a Tangent CDP out of Richer sounds for £50, or a Tesco DVD for less and use it solely as a transport for a Beresford or Dacmagic DAC? The actual transport, ie the bit that makes the disc spin and reads the data, is it not the case that there are only a couple of manufacturers and most CDP and DVD manufacturers use those few transports?
Gozaradio
Well-known member
The way I see it (and I may be wrong), while a decent offboard DAC should provide better sound quality from a 'cheaper' CD player, all it is doing is improving the transition from digital to analogue. The difference in the transport section between a £50 CDP and one costing £500 should be fewer read errors, providing a truer digital stream to the DAC.
You would expect the cheaper transport to do a poorer job of reading the CD and so it will provide less accurate information to the DAC than a better CDP plugged into the same DAC.
However, as with all these things, there's theory and then there's the real world which often don't match - the best way to determine this would be to try it for yourself and see what you think - if a dirt cheap player plugged into a decent DAC sounds good to you, then you're onto a winner - if not, try another player.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of players across the market though - from a supermarket job through to DVD players to mid range and high-ish end - just to see 'what a difference a DAC makes' (would have made a good title for this thread!)
EDIT: Just realised I didn't really answer the question in the title which to me is: No, but it can make it sound better than it currently does.
You would expect the cheaper transport to do a poorer job of reading the CD and so it will provide less accurate information to the DAC than a better CDP plugged into the same DAC.
However, as with all these things, there's theory and then there's the real world which often don't match - the best way to determine this would be to try it for yourself and see what you think - if a dirt cheap player plugged into a decent DAC sounds good to you, then you're onto a winner - if not, try another player.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of players across the market though - from a supermarket job through to DVD players to mid range and high-ish end - just to see 'what a difference a DAC makes' (would have made a good title for this thread!)
EDIT: Just realised I didn't really answer the question in the title which to me is: No, but it can make it sound better than it currently does.
idc
Well-known member
Gozaradio:
......The difference in the transport section between a £50 CDP and one costing £500 should be fewer read errors, providing a truer digital stream to the DAC.....
My thought on this (and because of two current posts casting doubt on the sonic differences between very differently priced CDPs) is that it boils down to only a few transports being available to use. So the role of the DAC is far more important in producing the sound, so the idea of a cheap CDP and expensive DAC is not unreasonable.
I am sure I remember comments from before that there may be only two CD transporst available to buy and in fact it is DVD transports that are often used (and there are not many of them). Can anyone confirm or refute this?
......The difference in the transport section between a £50 CDP and one costing £500 should be fewer read errors, providing a truer digital stream to the DAC.....
My thought on this (and because of two current posts casting doubt on the sonic differences between very differently priced CDPs) is that it boils down to only a few transports being available to use. So the role of the DAC is far more important in producing the sound, so the idea of a cheap CDP and expensive DAC is not unreasonable.
I am sure I remember comments from before that there may be only two CD transporst available to buy and in fact it is DVD transports that are often used (and there are not many of them). Can anyone confirm or refute this?
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Cambridge use their own transport servos which are dedicated to audio and which use Sony laser blocks. Arcam also use specialist transports, and Yamaha have done a lot of work on their latest transports as well.
Otherwise I think there is a pre-ponderance of CD-ROM/DVD transports in use across audio CD players as IDC points out.
This is what led me to my current source set-up. The 340C uses Cambridge's own servo, is well built and quiet in operation. The Musical Fidelity V-DAC raises its performance to a completely different level and it sounds every bit as good as the CD73 and Rega Apollo players I've had here in the past. I've also got complete flexibility because of the USB input on the V-DAC which allows me to stream high quality music from my laptop.
(Previously I was a DAC sceptic).
Otherwise I think there is a pre-ponderance of CD-ROM/DVD transports in use across audio CD players as IDC points out.
This is what led me to my current source set-up. The 340C uses Cambridge's own servo, is well built and quiet in operation. The Musical Fidelity V-DAC raises its performance to a completely different level and it sounds every bit as good as the CD73 and Rega Apollo players I've had here in the past. I've also got complete flexibility because of the USB input on the V-DAC which allows me to stream high quality music from my laptop.
(Previously I was a DAC sceptic).
Gozaradio: It would be interesting to see a comparison of players across the market though - from a supermarket job through to DVD players to mid range and high-ish end - just to see 'what a difference a DAC makes' (would have made a good title for this thread!)
Yup, I'd love to see a comparison of the digital output of a cheapo transport (e.g. £50 supermarket special), a budget (e.g. Cambridge 540 ish) and mid range player. Would only require some kind of software for verifying the digital output and er... jitter? (Is this right?)
Anybody in a position to give this a shot since I fear it might be a bit too techie for the mag? (Though the Editor for Comparisons of Digital Outputs from Multiple Transports may want to jump in here and correct me...)
Yup, I'd love to see a comparison of the digital output of a cheapo transport (e.g. £50 supermarket special), a budget (e.g. Cambridge 540 ish) and mid range player. Would only require some kind of software for verifying the digital output and er... jitter? (Is this right?)
Anybody in a position to give this a shot since I fear it might be a bit too techie for the mag? (Though the Editor for Comparisons of Digital Outputs from Multiple Transports may want to jump in here and correct me...)
Im glad people think its an intresting topic...
Im in a situation where I could buy a expensive CDP (well - £300/£500) or simply buy a £100 odd CDP and a DAC. I can see the benifits of doing both but its tricky.
One question though....Iv heard people on this forum say take the hardware home and try it....is it normal to borrow gear form shops before you buy?
Im in a situation where I could buy a expensive CDP (well - £300/£500) or simply buy a £100 odd CDP and a DAC. I can see the benifits of doing both but its tricky.
One question though....Iv heard people on this forum say take the hardware home and try it....is it normal to borrow gear form shops before you buy?
John Duncan
Well-known member
It's a tricky price point. The comments above about it being the transport hold true - I don't think a 50 quid DVD player with a DAC suddenly becomes a £1k-beater. But I think you will find that it would produce a perfectly respectable CD player, but would offer lots more flexibility when adding lossless streaming to the mix, or any other source with a digital out.
Just from my experience, I found:
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
You pays yer money.
As for borrowing, depends on the shop - Richer Sounds for example (who sell the DACMagic) are unlikely to just lend you one, though they may have a 14 day money back deal (I heard tell of it, but can't see anything mentioning it on their site).
Just from my experience, I found:
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
You pays yer money.
As for borrowing, depends on the shop - Richer Sounds for example (who sell the DACMagic) are unlikely to just lend you one, though they may have a 14 day money back deal (I heard tell of it, but can't see anything mentioning it on their site).
Basically up until recently Sony and Philips provided the lasers and their transport mechanisms for all because they held the exclusive rights. Recently Philips sold their rights to a Korean partner (I think). What the situation is now I'm not sure, but Rega and several others have been working with Sony for a while to produce transport mechanisms to their own requirements. ÿMarantz and maybe Pioneer now use dvd transports - there may be others, I don't know.
JD's thoughts reflect my own, based on my mucking around with a recently returned Rega Planet. I didn't think there was a world of difference between the lossless/AE/DAC but there was certainly a greater sense of space between the instruments and the bass seemed a tad fuller. The Rega and Rega/dac sounded virtually the same, but that's also because their voicing is similar.
On a separate occasion I tried my Sony DVD recorder through the DAC, which, as expected, was a vast improvement over the DVD recorder itself.
ÿ
JD's thoughts reflect my own, based on my mucking around with a recently returned Rega Planet. I didn't think there was a world of difference between the lossless/AE/DAC but there was certainly a greater sense of space between the instruments and the bass seemed a tad fuller. The Rega and Rega/dac sounded virtually the same, but that's also because their voicing is similar.
On a separate occasion I tried my Sony DVD recorder through the DAC, which, as expected, was a vast improvement over the DVD recorder itself.
ÿ
matthewpiano
Well-known member
tractorboy:
Gozaradio: It would be interesting to see a comparison of players across the market though - from a supermarket job through to DVD players to mid range and high-ish end - just to see 'what a difference a DAC makes' (would have made a good title for this thread!)
Yup, I'd love to see a comparison of the digital output of a cheapo transport (e.g. £50 supermarket special), a budget (e.g. Cambridge 540 ish) and mid range player. Would only require some kind of software for verifying the digital output and er... jitter? (Is this right?)
Anybody in a position to give this a shot since I fear it might be a bit too techie for the mag? (Though the Editor for Comparisons of Digital Outputs from Multiple Transports may want to jump in here and correct me...)
Yes it would be very interesting. Not much point in a 540 over a 340 though because the transport and servo and exactly the same. Its just the DAC thats different.
Gozaradio: It would be interesting to see a comparison of players across the market though - from a supermarket job through to DVD players to mid range and high-ish end - just to see 'what a difference a DAC makes' (would have made a good title for this thread!)
Yup, I'd love to see a comparison of the digital output of a cheapo transport (e.g. £50 supermarket special), a budget (e.g. Cambridge 540 ish) and mid range player. Would only require some kind of software for verifying the digital output and er... jitter? (Is this right?)
Anybody in a position to give this a shot since I fear it might be a bit too techie for the mag? (Though the Editor for Comparisons of Digital Outputs from Multiple Transports may want to jump in here and correct me...)
Yes it would be very interesting. Not much point in a 540 over a 340 though because the transport and servo and exactly the same. Its just the DAC thats different.
Sliced Bread
Well-known member
JohnDuncan:Just from my experience, I found:
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
Is that based on the DACMagic?
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
Is that based on the DACMagic?
John Duncan
Well-known member
JohnNewman:JohnDuncan:Just from my experience, I found:
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
Is that based on the DACMagic?
Yep.
Lossless files + DAC - beats £800 CD player
£800 CD player + DAC - exactly same as £800 CD Player
£80 DVD player + DAC - sounds good, but not as good as £800 CD player.
Is that based on the DACMagic?
Yep.
And on the other hand, I found:
Lossless files + DAC - doesn't beat £600ish CD player
CD Player + DAC - er... no, couldn't be bothered.
Obviously a variety of factors at work here, not least of all personal taste, no doubt.
Lossless files + DAC - doesn't beat £600ish CD player
CD Player + DAC - er... no, couldn't be bothered.
Obviously a variety of factors at work here, not least of all personal taste, no doubt.
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