continual improvement

[cheyworth]

how far back in time would you need to go for the current best buy 'Marantz CD6002' to beat the best buy at £1000?

As all areas improve with each generation (CD player, amp speakers) would it be best to buy 'budget or mid priced' products and replace every 5 years or splash out and spent big?

Chris

 

[drummerman]

Would'nt worry about something that can't be generalised the way you just did. Technically some may have 'improved'. Amps have lower distortion, players upsample etc. but whether they sound better universally than a product that is a few years old is debatable and highly subjective. Speakers have hardly moved on technically other than the inclusion of some 'exotic' cone materials, usually to give them a usp. I think there are plenty of examples of manufacturers revised hardware being no better or even inferior compared to their predecessors.

Buy with your ears and within your budget mate.

PS. I do think there are some outstanding new products and especially budget cdp's are now of reasonable quality.

 

[Anonymous]

cheyworth:

As all areas improve with each generation (CD player, amp speakers)

Chris

That's if you believe that statement, my personal opinion is, a good product is a good product and will remain a good product, true things move on, but audio is pretty well understood, most of the improvements are in marketing talk.

 

[Anonymous]

silly:audio is pretty well understood, most of the improvements are in marketing talk.

You should tell this to the development teams working for every hifi manufacturer. They'd be pleased to know they're wasting their time.

I think the most noticeable improvements at the moment are to do with the whole "digital HD" scene, but lest not forget that whilst some may think that at any one time they are getting the best there will ever be, there will always be better.

The only reason proper hifi can be afforded by people such as myself is because new technology has been developed, so they can sell us the 'dregs' for a discounted rate, knowing they can always charge a premium for their best gear.

If you really want to see you hifi is improving look at WHF reviews of speakers over £5K.

Whats more my Benchmark DAC (£600) has been compared with a certain top of the range DAC from 6 years ago worth £9K and won. Now if that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

 

[Anonymous]

Octopo:You should tell this to the development teams working for every hifi manufacturer. They'd be pleased to know they're wasting their time.gear.
If you really want to see you hifi is improving look at WHF reviews of speakers over £5K.

Whats more my Benchmark DAC (£600) has been compared with a certain top of the range DAC from 6 years ago worth £9K and won. Now if that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

No need, I know developing teams and audio engineers, so no need to tell them, it's as I said, a good amp is a good amp, technology in audio hasn't changed that much.

Whats a review in WHF of speakers over 5k going to tell me? I use speakers over 5K FWIW.

Differences in digital are not that great, how do you make a 9K CD player? I'd like to know? could it be marketing? the name on the front? the box it's in?

 

[Anonymous]

Octopo:
silly:audio is pretty well understood, most of the improvements are in marketing talk.

You should tell this to the development teams working for every hifi manufacturer. They'd be pleased to know they're wasting their time.

I think the most noticeable improvements at the moment are to do with the whole "digital HD" scene, but lest not forget that whilst some may think that at any one time they are getting the best there will ever be, there will always be better.

The only reason proper hifi can be afforded by people such as myself is because new technology has been developed, so they can sell us the 'dregs' for a discounted rate, knowing they can always charge a premium for their best gear.

If you really want to see you hifi is improving look at WHF reviews of speakers over £5K.

Whats more my Benchmark DAC (£600) has been compared with a certain top of the range DAC from 6 years ago worth £9K and won. Now if that's not improvement, I don't know what is.

That Benchmark is an outstanding product though. Even John Atkinson (Stereophile) bought one!!!! Take Densens 400xs for example - That's more revered than the newer B420. Primare withdrew their replacement for the i30 a while back (I think that's right?). Like DM says there are many examples. As far as I know, the technology hasn't moved on a that much in the last 6 years so the 9000 quid DAC shouldn't really be losing out to the Benchmark, as good as the B'mark is supposed to be. Maybe that 9k dac was just way overpriced (not difficult) and just not that good.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry that was a $17, 500 DAC, John Atkinson's previous reference DAC from 2003 and weighed more than 80Ibs(!!!!!!!!!!!!), by Mark Levinson. Link here

(Sorry WHF if that breaks any rules!)

I agree though the Benchmark is an outstanding product!

 

[Anonymous]

Octopo:
Sorry that was a $17, 500 DAC, John Atkinson's previous reference DAC from 2003 and weighed more than 80Ibs(!!!!!!!!!!!!), by Mark Levinson. Link here

(Sorry WHF if that breaks any rules!)

I agree though the Benchmark is an outstanding product!

80lbs?? thats hefty lol

 

[Anonymous]

or:

 

[Anonymous]

marcymarc555:Octopo:
Sorry that was a $17, 500 DAC, John Atkinson's previous reference DAC from 2003 and weighed more than 80Ibs(!!!!!!!!!!!!), by Mark Levinson. Link here

(Sorry WHF if that breaks any rules!)

I agree though the Benchmark is an outstanding product!

80lbs?? thats hefty lol

That's right..... a 72Ib weight loss is improvement in anyone's eyes!

 

[Anonymous]

silly:

Differences in digital are not that great, how do you make a 9K CD player? I'd like to know? could it be marketing? the name on the front? the box it's in?

I agree wholeheartedly with this, but the companies know that the majority of people who buy £9K CD players and £5K speakers have more money than they know what to do with, money becomes a no object scenario, BUT the piece of equipment WILL be scrutinised so the customer knows they are getting a good piece of equipment.

 

[Pike900fish]

drummerman:

Would'nt worry about something that can't be generalised the way you just did. Technically some may have 'improved'. Amps have lower distortion, players upsample etc. but whether they sound better universally than a product that is a few years old is debatable and highly subjective. Speakers have hardly moved on technically other than the inclusion of some 'exotic' cone materials, usually to give them a usp. I think there are plenty of examples of manufacturers revised hardware being no better or even inferior compared to their predecessors.

Buy with your ears and within your budget mate.

PS. I do think there are some outstanding new products and especially budget cdp's are now of reasonable quality.

Here here! My amplification is 20 odd years old and for the same outlay (baring in mind all bought for bargain price of ebay) for something new today, I don't think I'd have have nowhere near the same power, attack or impact IMO anyhow. Also, aren't alot of speakers now developed for homecinema duties as well as HiFi? So i guess you could argue there is some compromise on sound?

 

[Anonymous]

Pike900fish:
Here here! My amplification is 20 odd years old and for the same outlay (baring in mind all bought for bargain price of ebay) for something new today, I don't think I'd have have nowhere near the same power, attack or impact IMO anyhow.

This is a great way of getting hifi at a bargain price, and you have a nice system but it is not what cheyworth was asking.

My point (although maybe a standout one) is one view that answers the original question exactly though.

 

[Anonymous]

Octopo:

or:

That Benchmark is very nice looking too! Nice photo!

 

[Anonymous]

Octopo:

or:

That Benchmark is very nice looking too! Nice photo!

Just read the link to JAs review. Yeah, I came across that when I was reading about the Bel Canto DAC3 (JA, stereophile) . Hugely impressive account, tohugh the B'mark wasn't fed rubbish though (M.L transport and pre amp) - Either way the B'mark seems to be a nailed on giant killer. Thing is if you're source is top end stuff you'd probably want to maximize your DAC quality too with maybe something like the Bel canto DAC3. Check out the review....(I've had really naughty thoughts about this DAC that I'm trying my best not to action. .

 

[Anonymous]

Amplifier wise, to beat the current decent £400 amplifier, you would have to go back to the early/mid 70s to have a £1000 product that is the same.

Speaker wise, something to beat the B&W 685s, you would have to go to the late 70s to find a product that is £350 and just as good.

But CD-player wise, a £1000 product has always been better than the current £300 best product, even in the early 80s.

 

[drummerman]

Hughes123:Amplifier wise, to beat the current decent £400 amplifier, you would have to go back to the early/mid 70s to have a £1000 product that is the same.

Speaker wise, something to beat the B&W 685s, you would have to go to the late 70s to find a product that is £350 and just as good.

But CD-player wise, a £1000 product has always been better than the current £300 best product, even in the early 80s.

A was surprised just how good a recent bread and butter Nad player sounded compared to some distinguished and much more expensive products I owned of just a few years ago if memory serves well. Its difficult to generalise and its, like I said earlier, subjective but personally I'd say todays hundred and fifty quid players rival 1k products of ten years ago if you value neutrality and detail. Ok, a 63se or something like that may sound more euphonic to some but I like my source to be more evenly balanced and 'neutral'.

 

[Anonymous]

Hughes123:Amplifier wise, to beat the current decent £400 amplifier, you would have to go back to the early/mid 70s to have a £1000 product that is the same.

Speaker wise, something to beat the B&W 685s, you would have to go to the late 70s to find a product that is £350 and just as good.

But CD-player wise, a £1000 product has always been better than the current £300 best product, even in the early 80s.

I would personally disagree with this, I would rather have a Creek 4040, Nad 3020, A&R A60, from the 80s all under £200, than any £400 amp today.

The same goes for the B&W speakers, there are tons of speakers that easily compete and better B&W speakers, as I said in a previous post things don't change that much in the world of audio IMHO, maybe we're lead to believe newer is better, just as an example, I'd rather have the older B&W matrix speaker than any 800 model of today.