CD playr DAC if amp has one?

[JimTT]

Does a CD player need a DAC if the amp it is being plugged into has one?

Why is plugging in a Marantz CD6007 any better than plugging in a Tangent CD2?

Am I just being a simpleton?

 

[jetblack9090]

No it doesn't need an external DAC, a lot of people use one because they believe it nets them better sound, I would say sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

As to your second question honestly nothing, although we start getting into better quality. There are those that believe that the more money you spend the better quality you get and the better quality you get the better sound you get. Some would say that the sound quality gained from the cd6007 is far better because of its design and construction and even its internal DAC is better than what can be obtained from The tascan model you mentioned.

In most cases I would agree, I think something like the Marantz CD player is designed to extract as much information and sound quality from a CD as possible, whereas the tascam is designed to be a general purpose machine. Not to say that the tascam won't sound good, I think a lot of component choices and these sorts of things come down to personal preference. Over the years I've heard equipment that The standard enthusiast would dismiss, but actually sounds fantastic.

And that's sort of the Crux of the whole thing. This whole hobby is nothing but preference, some people will go all out and be happy and some people will get the same equipment and be completely unsatisfied. I remember asking myself several years ago why this was the case, and I came to the conclusion that it's because we all hear differently and at the end of the day what you should do is go with the equipment that makes you happy, that makes the sound that makes you happy.


My own personal belief is that better equipment more expensive equipment doesn't necessarily mean better sound. And that is important to find the type of sound that you enjoy and then go with the equipment that makes that sound, whether that be expensive gear or inexpensive gear or some combination of both..

Sorry to be so verbose but just thought I would share my opinion and experience

 

[Al ears]

Does a CD player need a DAC if the amp it is being plugged into has one?

Why is plugging in a Marantz CD6007 any better than plugging in a Tangent CD2?

Am I just being a simpleton?

Not necessarily.
If you are happy with the DAC included in the amp itself then all you need is a CD transport.
The big issue is many CD transports are more more expensive than a CD player.
Having a DAC in a cd player is often a way of economic sensible design for many manufacturers as they can be sold individually rather than part of a same- brand set-up.
The DAC in the CD player might be a different type to the DAC in the amplifier thus giving you an option as to which to use.
Both of your examples are CD players which include a DAC so to answer your question it will depend on which bit of equipment, with its included DAC, you actually prefer.
Of course, it's probably best just to buy a CD transport

 

[Al ears]

No it doesn't need an external DAC, a lot of people use one because they believe it nets them better sound, I would say sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

As to your second question honestly nothing, although we start getting into better quality. There are those that believe that the more money you spend the better quality you get and the better quality you get the better sound you get. Some would say that the sound quality gained from the cd6007 is far better because of its design and construction and even its internal DAC is better than what can be obtained from The tascan model you mentioned.

In most cases I would agree, I think something like the Marantz CD player is designed to extract as much information and sound quality from a CD as possible, whereas the tascam is designed to be a general purpose machine. Not to say that the tascam won't sound good, I think a lot of component choices and these sorts of things come down to personal preference. Over the years I've heard equipment that The standard enthusiast would dismiss, but actually sounds fantastic.

And that's sort of the Crux of the whole thing. This whole hobby is nothing but preference, some people will go all out and be happy and some people will get the same equipment and be completely unsatisfied. I remember asking myself several years ago why this was the case, and I came to the conclusion that it's because we all hear differently and at the end of the day what you should do is go with the equipment that makes you happy, that makes the sound that makes you happy.


My own personal belief is that better equipment more expensive equipment doesn't necessarily mean better sound. And that is important to find the type of sound that you enjoy and then go with the equipment that makes that sound, whether that be expensive gear or inexpensive gear or some combination of both..

Sorry to be so verbose but just thought I would share my opinion and experience

Pretty sure he wasn't referring to an external DAC per se.
Both his examples have internal DACs
It will obviously depend on whether he intends to connect either of these purely as a transport via digital output, then it wouldn't matter which he buys.

 

[JimTT]

Pretty sure he wasn't referring to an external DAC per se.
Both his examples have internal DACs
It will obviously depend on whether he intends to connect either of these purely as a transport via digital output, then it wouldn't matter which he buys.

Hi, thanks. Yes I was thinking that if I get a cheaper CD player I can get a more expensive amp.

So if I connect via analog the CD player needs a decent DAC? But if I connect via digital it doesn;t matter as it then just uses the amp's DAC?

My story is this...

My Denon CEOL N8 CD player has conked out though the rest of it works. Someone on here very cleverly suggested I can just hook up a new CD playre while I save up for an amp.

I had planned to get Marantz PM and CD 6007 and then I saw them in the flesh... I can't spend the next 20-30 years looking at that! Marantz need to sort them out.

So I started looking at alternarives and have gotten myself in a tissy.

Currenlty I have a pair of Diamond 1.1 speakers, BUT I do also own a pair of Wharfedale W4s that are in storage (Impedance: 15 ohms. Max. Input: 15 Watts) So I realised I need an amp that could one day power them but I'm not certain what I need. It was only when I started reading about different amps that I realised not all the budget amps would be able to power them

I was thinking therefore if I got a cheaper CD player more money could go into the amp to have the option of hooking up the W4s

 

[JimTT]

No it doesn't need an external DAC, a lot of people use one because they believe it nets them better sound, I would say sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.

As to your second question honestly nothing, although we start getting into better quality. There are those that believe that the more money you spend the better quality you get and the better quality you get the better sound you get. Some would say that the sound quality gained from the cd6007 is far better because of its design and construction and even its internal DAC is better than what can be obtained from The tascan model you mentioned.

In most cases I would agree, I think something like the Marantz CD player is designed to extract as much information and sound quality from a CD as possible, whereas the tascam is designed to be a general purpose machine. Not to say that the tascam won't sound good, I think a lot of component choices and these sorts of things come down to personal preference. Over the years I've heard equipment that The standard enthusiast would dismiss, but actually sounds fantastic.

And that's sort of the Crux of the whole thing. This whole hobby is nothing but preference, some people will go all out and be happy and some people will get the same equipment and be completely unsatisfied. I remember asking myself several years ago why this was the case, and I came to the conclusion that it's because we all hear differently and at the end of the day what you should do is go with the equipment that makes you happy, that makes the sound that makes you happy.


My own personal belief is that better equipment more expensive equipment doesn't necessarily mean better sound. And that is important to find the type of sound that you enjoy and then go with the equipment that makes that sound, whether that be expensive gear or inexpensive gear or some combination of both..

Sorry to be so verbose but just thought I would share my opinion and experience

Thanks for your verbose offering! It is agood point you make that personla preference is a huge part of it. It isn't the case that one component is simply better than another.

I probably need to go to a shop and have a listen. I'm sure it will all sound better than what I currenlty have

 

[Fandango Andy]

Hi, thanks. Yes I was thinking that if I get a cheaper CD player I can get a more expensive amp.

So if I connect via analog the CD player needs a decent DAC? But if I connect via digital it doesn;t matter as it then just uses the amp's DAC?

My story is this...

My Denon CEOL N8 CD player has conked out though the rest of it works. Someone on here very cleverly suggested I can just hook up a new CD playre while I save up for an amp.

I had planned to get Marantz PM and CD 6007 and then I saw them in the flesh... I can't spend the next 20-30 years looking at that! Marantz need to sort them out.

So I started looking at alternarives and have gotten myself in a tissy.

Currenlty I have a pair of Diamond 1.1 speakers, BUT I do also own a pair of Wharfedale W4s that are in storage (Impedance: 15 ohms. Max. Input: 15 Watts) So I realised I need an amp that could one day power them but I'm not certain what I need. It was only when I started reading about different amps that I realised not all the budget amps would be able to power them

I was thinking therefore if I got a cheaper CD player more money could go into the amp to have the option of hooking up the W4s

Looks are subjective, but the case is an old design going back about 20 years. Most other Marantz amps use the new design with the round display in the centre. I image they will use that on their next entry level amp.

Do you have a half decent blu ray player with a digital audio out? If so, you could use it as a transport, and not bother with a CD player.

Although you aren't buying everything at the sames time, it sounds like you are startimg again from the ground up. Good excuse to go and listen to some equipment in store. Their is no substitute for auditioning and seeing what you like.

 

[Al ears]

Hi, thanks. Yes I was thinking that if I get a cheaper CD player I can get a more expensive amp.

So if I connect via analog the CD player needs a decent DAC? But if I connect via digital it doesn;t matter as it then just uses the amp's DAC?

My story is this...

My Denon CEOL N8 CD player has conked out though the rest of it works. Someone on here very cleverly suggested I can just hook up a new CD playre while I save up for an amp.

I had planned to get Marantz PM and CD 6007 and then I saw them in the flesh... I can't spend the next 20-30 years looking at that! Marantz need to sort them out.

So I started looking at alternarives and have gotten myself in a tissy.

Currenlty I have a pair of Diamond 1.1 speakers, BUT I do also own a pair of Wharfedale W4s that are in storage (Impedance: 15 ohms. Max. Input: 15 Watts) So I realised I need an amp that could one day power them but I'm not certain what I need. It was only when I started reading about different amps that I realised not all the budget amps would be able to power them

I was thinking therefore if I got a cheaper CD player more money could go into the amp to have the option of hooking up the W4s

Ultimately it will depend on the amplifier you decide to get. It doesn't need to include a dac if you then intended to attach a cd player.
Attaching CD transport is a different matter as you need a dac in the set-up somewhere.
Find our amplifier first.

 

[JimTT]

Looks are subjective, but the case is an old design going back about 20 years. Most other Marantz amps use the new design with the round display in the centre. I image they will use that on their next entry level amp.

Do you have a half decent blu ray player with a digital audio out? If so, you could use it as a transport, and not bother with a CD player.

Although you aren't buying everything at the sames time, it sounds like you are startimg again from the ground up. Good excuse to go and listen to some equipment in store. Their is no substitute for auditioning and seeing what you like.

Yes, aside from the speakers I'm building a new system - so yes I should go to a shop for a listen. I'm unfortunately shy about such things! I'll feel a horrible obligation to buy something! But i'll do it.

No Blu-ray player ( people on here would laugh if they saw my tv set up - a 2000s Mac 20inch cinema screen hooked up to a mac mini, with a mac dvd drive attached)

I'm actually thinking I'm not that fussy to some extent. I mainly just need an amp and cd set up - I would like 2way bluetooth - that seems very useful to me - but so far i've only seen the Acram A5 with it. And I would eventually like to be able to power some spekers with a largeish bass/mid driver for a more natural sound. So that has ruled out the Rotel A8.

 

[JimTT]

Ultimately it will depend on the amplifier you decide to get. It doesn't need to include a dac if you then intended to attach a cd player.
Attaching CD transport is a different matter as you need a dac in the set-up somewhere.
Find our amplifier first.

Thanks.

I'm having trouble with the amp finding.

If i put a max budget on it at £600 and if the only features I want are
1. a good amp
2. 2-way bluetooth
3. 40/50W per channel (enough to power some larger speaker)
I'm all in a tissy and can't pin some options down

 

[RJW232]

The CD player must have a really awful DAC if an amp in-built is better. For life cycle and repairability reasons I (still) prefer amps with analog inputs and have the conversion in the source (either in de CD player/streamer or a dedicated DAC). Analog amplifiers can be repaired for decades (if needed at all) but I'm not so sure about digital systems.

 

[Al ears]

Thanks.

I'm having trouble with the amp finding.

If i put a max budget on it at £600 and if the only features I want are
1. a good amp
2. 2-way bluetooth
3. 40/50W per channel (enough to power some larger speaker)
I'm all in a tissy and can't pin some options down

Just concentrate on an amp and add an external Bluetooth device.
Not too sure about the two way bit, what do you mean?
Most amplifiers just receive.
Please explain what you hope to achieve.

 

[JimTT]

Just concentrate on an amp and add an external Bluetooth device.
Not too sure about the two way bit, what do you mean?
Most amplifiers just receive.
Please explain what you hope to achieve.

Thanks. Maybe the Rotal a10Mk 2 would suit. But are there any cheaper options? I'm happy to add external bluetooth. AS well using a hoe to play from I'd like to be able to play Cds on a bluetooth speaker in the room next door. Is that done easily?? Sorry I really do know nothing!

 

[Al ears]

Thanks. Maybe the Rotal a10Mk 2 would suit. But are there any cheaper options? I'm happy to add external bluetooth. AS well using a hoe to play from I'd like to be able to play Cds on a bluetooth speaker in the room next door. Is that done easily?? Sorry I really do know nothing!

Outside my experience unfortunately but pretty sure it can be done.
Hopefully others will be along soon to tell you how.
Rotel is a good amp.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Most DACs sound the same so chill. A Chord DAVE will sound the same as a Fosi Audio ZD3.

 

[Al ears]

Most DACs sound the same so chill. A Chord DAVE will sound the same as a Fosi Audio ZD3.

As most DACs have user definable filters I find that statement hard to believe.....

 

[ToppingSMSL]

As most DACs have user definable filters I find that statement hard to believe.....

You seem to be assuming that:

1) Filters make a significant difference to sound

2) Most people use any filter other than the default sharp roll-off (which is the technically correct filter to use).

 

[Gray]

I had planned to get Marantz PM and CD 6007 and then I saw them in the flesh... I can't spend the next 20-30 years looking at that! Marantz need to sort them out.

Most DACs sound the same so chill. A Chord DAVE will sound the same as a Fosi Audio ZD3.

This forum is nothing if not occasionally entertaining.

 

[Al ears]

You seem to be assuming that:

1) Filters make a significant difference to sound

2) Most people use any filter other than the default sharp roll-off (which is the technically correct filter to use).

I assume nothing, however what I hear is perhaps not what others might.
If you are correct in that sharp roll off is the one to use you are obviously implying that filters do make a difference.
Make up your mind.....

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I assume nothing, however what I hear is perhaps not what others might.
If you are correct in that sharp roll off is the one to use you are obviously implying that filters do make a difference.
Make up your mind.....

They can make a difference to frequency response way up around 20kHz - you can measure that. Can you hear it? Maybe if you can hear that high and one filter rolls off early (which it shouldn't really be doing, so...

 

[ToppingSMSL]

This forum is nothing if not occasionally entertaining.

Absolutely. Chord DAVE measures worse than the Fosi.

 

[Al ears]

They can make a difference to frequency response way up around 20kHz - you can measure that. Can you hear it? Maybe if you can hear that high and one filter rolls off early (which it shouldn't really be doing, so...

Persuade me as to why you can hear a difference with sharp roll off then.
The measured performance of DACs is as meaningless as it is with valve amplifiers.
They either work well within a system or they don't as you cannot listen to a DAC on its own.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Persuade me as to why you can hear a difference with sharp roll off then.
The measured performance of DACs is as meaningless as it is with valve amplifiers.
They either work well within a system or they don't as you cannot listen to a DAC on its own.

Did I say you or I could hear a difference with fast roll off? It's just from a technical perspective the best filter.

Valve amplifiers have much higher distortion than a DAC. Their distortion can be in the audible range and many people find the type of distortion they typically produce as being "pleasant". I'm not sure what the point is of the rest of your post. Seems irrelevant.

 

[Al ears]

Did I say you or I could hear a difference with fast roll off? It's just from a technical perspective the best filter.

Valve amplifiers have much higher distortion than a DAC. Their distortion can be in the audible range and many people find the type of distortion they typically produce as being "pleasant". I'm not sure what the point is of the rest of your post. Seems irrelevant.

Define technically perspective the best filter. If it is why offer others.
The filters appear to be provided for personal taste.
Any other reason they are there?
Nothing is irrelevant, particularly those that claim all dacs sound the same.
A bit like saying all amplifier sounds the same .....

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Define technically perspective the best filter. If it is why offer others.
The filters appear to be provided for personal taste.
Any other reason they are there?
Nothing is irrelevant, particularly those that claim all dacs sound the same.
A bit like saying all amplifier sounds the same .....

The filters are offered as they are cheap to provide and they think it helps sell the product as some people feel theyre getting something extra. It's BS. I'm not sure how we got sidetracked into filters though.

From a technical perspective the best filter cuts everything above Nyquist frequency as fast as possible. You can read up on that at your leisure.