Cartridge & phono-stage suggestions for new Rega P3-24.

[chebby]

OK story so far... I have decided to get back to vinyl . I will be getting a Rega P3-24 in September.

My last turntable was a Rega Planar 3 (a blue one!) and I had Planars going back to the early 1980s when the RB-300 arm was introduced. I have never used a Rega cartridge though.

Among the various cartridges I used over the years, the real 'standouts' were the Goldring 1042 and a low output Audio-Technica moving coil who's name escapes me now because it was almost 25 years ago.

Reel forward to the last few months and I have had a lot of listening time with a friend's new Rega P3-24 (& TT-PSU upgrade) with at first an Elys 2 and now a Denon DL-103R (with Denon AU-300LC passive step-up transformer and Rega Fono-Mini into a Primare I30/JM Focal Lab 716 system.)

I like the sound of the DL-103R on my friends turntable but I have a suspicion that at least 80 percent of the improvement is down to the TT-PSU upgrade that occurred at the same time the Denon cartidge was fitted. However, there was no chance to compare the P3-24 + Elys + TT-PSU because I (obviously) was never going to ask my friend to swap back to the Elys just for an academic comparison. That would just be selfish and plain rude 🙂

I have a hunch that going down the complete 'Rega road' - with a factory fitted (three bolts and Stephenson alignment) Elys 2 and the TT-PSU and a Rega Fono MM or Fono-Mini phono-stage (and even the Rega Turntable wall bracket) - will have a 'system synergy' that mixing and matching brands may not quite equal.

Should I follow my hunch? (The Elys 2 is £50 cheaper if I buy it factory fitted) Or have any of you P3/Planar 3/P2 owners (and ex-owners) any other bright ideas regarding cartridges, phono stages, alignment, supports or anything else I may be missing?

If not, still feel free to discuss anything turntable'y and cartridge'y.

Thanks

 

[the record spot]

I always found the Elys onm the P3 a good if smooth listen. I like the vibrancy and detail that the Audio Technica AT440MLa, it's also more open (read also "bright") so good for me, but maybe not so hot if you only want more warmth.

I'd have a listen to the Rega set, if you don't like it, read up on the options (the Goldring range and Ortofon 2 range are well liked and highly respected).

I have heard that Rega recommend you use their products for the best sound - well they would wouldn't they?! My take, mix and match by all means. Check the various tonal qualities of each cartridge (Vinyl Engine's forum is loaded with suchlike experts and worthy of an hour or two of your time when spending this money) and take it from there. I did this with my AT and am glad I took some time over it.

Good luck; it's a fun ride!

 

[Anonymous]

I always preferred the Dynavectors on the Rega decks, many people like the Denon DL110, I have one at the moment and I've found it well overrated, very thin and bright top end, midrange is it's saving feature, doesn't time too well, but that's just my findings, I had a Rega exact before and didn't like that either, so a Dynavector everytime for me. Obviously it works well with the P-75 Dynavector phono stage but is over budget, so try the Creek OBH which work well with the Rega decks or the Revolver Phono 2 is nice.

 

[chebby]

I like the thinking there, forum members 'record spot' and 'Silly'.

In my (somewhat rambling) first post I listed the Goldring 1042 as one the 'standout' cartridges I have used in the past. I am not thinking of repeating history though. Despite its undisputed competence in many respects, I must say it was dark, lush, warm, big & detailed but a little overpowering at times.

This time I am after something crisper and faster (with less of a 'looming' nature) which is just outright musical without either being too analytical or too theatrical.

 

[the record spot]

Good call re: the DV 10x5 - completely forgot that in my earlier post; another well respected cart and gets a lot of positive noises from a wide range of P3 owners. Should be a winner if you go with it and like the end result!

 

[fatboyslimfast]

My vote would be for the Ortofon 2M range - I use a blue and it exhibits all the characteristics you mention above...

Also, look at the Cambridge 640p - a cracking little phono amp that will also allow for an upgrade to a MC cartridge later on...

 

[John Duncan]

Got to agree on the Cambridge, but will bow to others on the cartridge front - I only know the Sumiko blue point special, and it's the wrong colour.......

 

[the record spot]

Think the Sumiko was very well regarded, but have they modified that range recently too (as per the Ortofon and Goldrings)? I think I've heard of a Sumiko Evo...? What are the tonal qualities of the Sumiko? Smooth/warm, punchy, detailed, etc?

I probably should know this but at the £250 as it was (I think?) it was always off my radar and since the AT turned up, most other carts have been too in fariness!

 

[John Duncan]

Yeah, I think it's the 'Evo' now - detailed and smooth, I wouldn't call it warm. None of my music is 'punchy'

This was on a gyro - the rega adds a bit of warmth compared to the gyro anyway, might be a good match.

 

[plastic penguin]

I would highly recommend the ClearAudio Classic Wood Cartidge. This added more presence or 'SOUL' to the equivelent Ortofon. In addition, depending on the amp and speakers you have, whatever cartridge you decide to go with, check the MV's. It will determine the volume, but how relevant it is with modern cartridges, I'm not too sure. . . .

 

[chebby]

All this talk of warmth is scaring me off a little 🙂

My Arcam Solo-Mini is already a little warm and the Rega R3's manage nicely to keep it honest. If I go for a particularly warm sounding cartridge I may just tip the whole system back into smooth, warm, chocolatey overload. (shudder!)

This is why I don't mind if a cartridge is a little more 'up and at 'em'. Something with a bit of boogey in it's character

 

[the record spot]

In that case, the AT440MLa should definitely be on the list. Very articulate, great tracker, good bass, with an open and involving sound. For £80 (you can get it for this online or Ian Harrison in Derby might do a price match - I'd highly recommend him; very nice guy and good service; I bought mine from there in fact) it's a steal given the performance you get.

 

[MarkPMus]

Hi Chebby,

I read your OP with interest, as I am thinking about upgrading the 2M Blue that is on my P5 at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I love the Blue, it's detailed and quite snappy, with a precise soundstage. I just think the P5/RB 700 is capable of better. I have my sights set on a 2M Black.

But back to your posts, I think the 2M's are exactly (no rega pun intended!) what you are after. (Even though having just checked the date of your OP, my recommendations are probably far too late, hopefully they will be useful to other readers!!!)

Having read more of the hi-fi press reviews than just What Hi-fi, one reviewer found the 2M Blue a very good cartridge if you are into modern vinyl, but less forgiving of older recordings. As it has a nude stylus, it is very susceptible to dust, and therefore requires frequent cleaning and also records to be clean. The same reviewer found the Bronze to be far too analytical for his tastes, whereas the Black was found to be perfect. I get the feeling that this reviewer would happily recommend the Black over any MC cartridge below about £1000.

In my own experience of the Blue, I agree about the dust issue. For this reason I purchased the cheapest record cleaning system I could find, which is the Knosti Disco Anti-stat. I didn't worry about tonearm VTA, as Rega's advice is don't worry about it. Roy Gandy produced a document about why perfect VTA is never achievable ( I don't understand it) but the upshot is that if you're really worried about it, don't add the spacers to the RB arms (as long as they are fitted to Rega decks) add 0.1g tracking weight.

As for tracking weight, I find the RB dial to be a bit inaccurate, and prefer to use a Shure tracking guage.

As far as the "not forgiving of old vinyl goes" (according to above reviewer), I don't agree, but it is very detailed. It showed up the difference between 2 copies of Paul Simon's "Still Crazy After All These Years" admirably. One had been mastered on transistor equipment, and the other on valves.

Where I find the Blue lacking is in "engagement" - or lack of. It sounds lovely, but deosn't shriek, "Listen to me!". I don't mean peaky treble masquerading as involvement. Ortofons have been criticised for being unemotional, and Regas for tonally "grey" so I think if the Black is nigh on perfect it should remedy the unemotional bit!

If anyone wants to hear/see my P5/2M Blue in action, they should head over to my YouTube channel where I've made some high quality demoes. Or at least as high as YT will allow which is lo-fi, but it gives a good idea, with some good headphones attached to the computer of course!

See http://www.youtube.com/user/MarkPMus

 

[Mike_Schmidt]

dug up this old thread so if I go with the ortofon black 2m do I need spacers or just adjust the tracking weight?