Calling CNO - Arcam + KEF Experience Requested

[The_Real_Malcolm_Tucker]

CNO, I hope you don't mind me picking on you specifically but I would appreciate your advice.

I've read a lot of your posts and think we have very similar tastes in sound/ equipment.

I have a pair of KEF R500s and I'm looking for the best amp to partner them. KEF and Arcam seem to be recognised as a special match and I've noticed that KEF use Arcam amplification at shows/ demos which perhaps confirms that synergy.

I've shortlisted the A29 and A39 and will audition them both but would appreciate hearing opinions on both and preferably when partnered with KEF R500s. What are the differences between them in performance (I'm familiar with the specs)?

I have a small listening room (2.5m x 3.5m). I know power wise the A29 would be more than enough but does the A39 offer better performance that would still shine though?

I would probably get a irDAC 2 to match the sound signature of the amp too. Any opinions of this would be appreciated too.

Many thanks

 

[inbox4]

CNO, what does the extra quality in sound of the A39 that you refer to sound like? Does that 20w of class A have a different character?

Does one suit R series better than the other in your opinion?

 

[plastic penguin]

As a big Arcam fanboy I have to confess their achilles heel on the older models was their bass. With the wrong speaker (hard to drive models) it could sound a little ponderous. Hoping the newer models have addressed this slight shortfall.

Again with my bias head on, I can also recommend Leema with Kefs: A few months ago heard the LS50s with the Pulse. Impressive.

 

[CnoEvil]

Again with my bias head on, I can also recommend Leema with Kefs: A few months ago heard the LS50s with the Pulse. Impressive.

It is back to my point, that those particular Kefs like clean sounding amps that can control them.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you for the vote of confidence....and I hope you get other contributions as well.

With the R500s, you want to get the best amp you can afford and IMO it is worth going for the A39, as its implementation of Class G gives 20W of Class A, whereas the A29 doesn't give any Class A....so it's not just about power, but also control-by doubling its power into 4 Ohms (which the R Series needs) and quality of sound.

Even though I really like the match with Arcam, for piece of mind, I'd also want (if possible), to compare it with its competitors from Rega, Creek and Hegel.

I can't comment on the DAC, as I have usually heard them with a Linn DS, or Arcam's CD/Streamer.....I prefer it with Linn.

 

[CnoEvil]

CNO, what does the extra quality in sound of the A39 that you refer to sound like? Does that 20w of class A have a different character?

Does one suit R series better than the other in your opinion?

It's been a while since I compared the 2 amps, so it is always something one has to try for oneself....that said:

From memory, the A39 sounded richer, bolder, more detailed/effortless/controlled, yet also more refined....and the A49 brings all these traits to a whole new level.

There is just something very organic, natural and musical about these Class G amps...there are no headache inducing, glassy highs and it produces a sound that is neither tiring nor analytical...provided the source is up to the job.

IMO they are much more exciting than the rather "dull but worthy" sound that you got from the Arcams of old. As you go up the ladder, these traits just improve exponentially.

The R Series are not fussy regarding the character of the amp, but do need control. This means that the A39 works better. The R Series have a lot of headroom, which means that they also reward the listener when they are put on the end of a decent system. Bear in mind that all the R Series need room to breathe (as well as controlled by the amp), or they can sound boomy

The Rega Elicit is also an excellent amp, but sounds slightly leaner and a little more forward, which works well with their own speakers, as well as the R Series.

 

[plastic penguin]

Again with my bias head on, I can also recommend Leema with Kefs: A few months ago heard the LS50s with the Pulse. Impressive.

It is back to my point, that those particular Kefs like clean sounding amps that can control them.

Are the Arcams really that much better than the DIVA range, Cno? That was the revelation for me: How tight and fast the bass is on the Pulse compared to even the flagship A85.

 

[CnoEvil]

Are the Arcams really that much better than the DIVA range, Cno? That was the revelation for me: How tight and fast the bass is on the Pulse compared to even the flagship A85.

IMO The full Class G amps are a revelation and in a totally different league to anything they have done in the past....on the 2 channel Amps, it's the A39 upwards. On the AV side, it started with the AVR600 (which had endless problems, but showed just how musical an AV amp could be).

 

[plastic penguin]

Are the Arcams really that much better than the DIVA range, Cno? That was the revelation for me: How tight and fast the bass is on the Pulse compared to even the flagship A85.

IMO The full Class G amps are a revelation and in a totally different league to anything they have done in the past....on the 2 channel Amps, it's the A39 upwards. On the AV side, it started with the AVR600 (which had endless problems, but showed just how musical an AV amp could be).

Heard your AVR600 when I last visited 'The Towers'. It was powering 4 Maudaunt Short Performance 6 speakers plus two subs. It sounded awsome.

 

[inbox4]

Very interesting thread.

I've not heard the A39 but have been told by a friend in a hifi shop that it doesn't have the sound signature of an Arcam.

He described it as "attacking, bright and fatiguing"

That sounds completely different to what you're describing CNO and not like any Arcam I've ever heard.

 

[CnoEvil]

He described it as "attacking, bright and fatiguing"

That sounds completely different to what you're describing CNO and not like any Arcam I've ever heard. 

This could be down to system matching...though I have never heard an Arcam sound like that.....but sound is subjective and system matching / set up / room acoustics are precarious variables.

 

[plastic penguin]

Very interesting thread.

I've not heard the A39 but have been told by a friend in a hifi shop that it doesn't have the sound signature of an Arcam.

He described it as "attacking, bright and fatiguing"

That sounds completely different to what you're describing CNO and not like any Arcam I've ever heard.

Like Cno suggested that wouldn't be how I describe Arcam. I've owned Arcams for 14 years (older models) and they are fairly neutral and very detailed. They have a slightly languid presentation that lends itself nicely to long sessions.

I would also look at Creek and, as I mentioned earlier, Leema. They are probably closer, from what I've read, to the newer Arcams than most brands. Leema IMO produce stunning amps for the money: Detailed, taut bass but has a silky midrange, which again, is great for long listening sessions.

As Cno rightly pointed out it'll differ due to room layout, acoustics and personal taste.

 

[inbox4]

I have a small listening room (2.5m x 3.5m). I know power wise the A29 would be more than enough but does the A39 offer better performance that would still shine though?

I've not heard either but I would expect them to be equally suited to that room. I wouldn't discount the A39 as being too powerful -CNO correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CnoEvil]

A more competent Amp should be better in all areas...the only thing that can happen, is an Amp with more current should, if the speaker is capable, produce Bass that is deeper, more controlled and with improved definition ie. Bass woofers that actually play tunes (less smearing and overhang) with greater slam...this can, under certain circumstances, excite room nodes, or over power a room that is too small for the size of the speaker.

Saying all that, I would always go with the best Amp that I could reasonably justify.

 

[Q5]

A more competent Amp should be better in all areas...the only thing that can happen, is an Amp with more current should, if the speaker is capable, produce Bass that is deeper, more controlled and with improved definition ie. Bass woofers that actually play tunes (less smearing and overhang) with greater slam...this can, under certain circumstances, excite room nodes, or over power a room that is too small for the size of the speaker.

Saying all that, I would always go with the best Amp that I could reasonably justify.

Thats how i feel about my A49 and the LS50, I wasn't sure about purchasing the A49 and thought it would be over kill for the LS50.

I was wrong and the sound is is well controlled and for the size of speaker, the bass is strong when needed and not overpowering.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thats how i feel about my A49 and the LS50, I wasn't sure about purchasing the A49 and thought it would be over kill for the LS50.

I was wrong and the sound is is well controlled and for the size of speaker, the bass is strong when needed and not overpowering.

How would you describe the sound signature of the A49...and did you compare it to any of its lesser siblings?

 

[Q5]

Thats how i feel about my A49 and the LS50, I wasn't sure about purchasing the A49 and thought it would be over kill for the LS50.

I was wrong and the sound is is well controlled and for the size of speaker, the bass is strong when needed and not overpowering.

How would you describe the sound signature of the A49...and did you compare it to any of its lesser siblings?

I didn't compare it to the lesser siblings but had heard the AVR600 with some Kef speakers a while before and liked the sound when used in stereo. This led me to thinking about a Arcam stereo amp.

The sound is quite neutral, clear vocals and a good seperation of voices and instruments, I would like to demo some higher spec speakers with the Arcam, maybe the REF 1.

I have some Guru QM10 speakers boxed up and unused, I may give them a try on this amp and see how good the Kef's are.

 

[Snikoes]

Often when I've read about certain speakers there are recognised electronics brands that are associated with them as particularly special matches.

Do you think KEF and Arcam are such a match?

I've notice KEF use Arcam amplification at shows and demos so that must suggest something?

Are they a magic pairing that work better than other brands with KEF speakers?

 

[CnoEvil]

Often when I've read about certain speakers there are recognised electronics brands that are associated with them as particularly special matches. 

Do you think KEF and Arcam are such a match?

I've notice KEF use Arcam amplification at shows and demos so that must suggest something?

Are they a magic pairing that work better than other brands with KEF speakers?

Kef have also used other brands as well, like Chord and Electrocompaniet.

Arcam/Kef do work well together and the guys from each company know each other and the relationship seems to work.

The current Kef speakers are easier to match than the previous range, as they sound a little smoother (but even more detailed and revealing). They do like amps that have good current delivery, though.