Cable directionality

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idc

idc

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2008
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In April 2000 at a presentation to the Audio Engineering Society, Steve Lampen, Technology Specialist with Belden cables admitted Belden had tried directionality double blind tests and the results had been random. But tellingly “Belden is still happy to manufacture and sell directional cables to enthusiasts.”

What do you make of that admission?
 
Two things, i) cynical marketing/mainpulation of a target market using unproven theories and ii) signal transfer from one end of a cable to another is not affected by mumbo-jumbo after all...!
 
idc:But tellingly "Belden is still happy to manufacture and sell directional cables to enthusiasts."
What do you make of that admission?

Not everyone who works on the presses that print Bibles (or the people in the bookshops who sell them) have to be Christians themselves.
 
Q: Is it possible that human beings are not perfect measuring devices for audio?

Q: Is it possible that other people have noticed this? People that make things? Things they can sell?
 
Ive seen a test using digital co axial cables that were measured for jitter

Of the 3 cables, the worst one had really bad jitter both ways though one was marginally worse than the other

Of the other 2, both had less jitter (And by some margin), one way as opposed to the other

Jitter was so bad in the worst cable that it would measureably affect the signal as it entered the DAC (Affecting the sound due to errors in the signal)

So regardless of what Belden think, clearly there are measureable differences when comparing grain structure of cables
 
idc:In April 2000 at a presentation to the Audio Engineering Society, Steve Lampen, Technology Specialist with Belden cables admitted Belden had tried directionality double blind tests and the results had been random. But tellingly "Belden is still happy to manufacture and sell directional cables to enthusiasts."
What do you make of that admission?

That it's time you got your news via a faster method than carrier-snail?
 
Rick, I do not see how your post on jitter relates to directionality. Even if it does, the Belden blind tests shows it is not audible.

Andrew, I was never cut out to be a journalist with tight deadlines to meet!
 
idc:
Rick, I do not see how your post on jitter relates to directionality. Even if it does, the Belden blind tests shows it is not audible.

Andrew, I was never cut out to be a journalist with tight deadlines to meet!

It was simply to let you know that they had 'measureably' affected the outcome. Therefore cables are 'directional' if only measureably (Although in the case of the worst coaxial, it definitely induced LESS errors being fitted a certain way round. Even if I couldnt hear it, id much rather fit a cable the right way round if I KNOW it makes a difference)

As for blind tests, seeming as a 200 quid amp sounded exactly the same as a 20k one, I do have my doubts about them
 
aliEnRIK:As for blind tests, seeming as a 200 quid amp sounded exactly the same as a 20k one, I do have my doubts about them

What amps that?

I want one.
 
I see, I understand that there is always going to be a problem correlating measurements with perceived sound differences and quality, in as much as there appears to be little to no correlation.

As to blind tests, that is the best argument against them, but when testing amps they are often equalised. I am not sure how it is done, but it appears to be a case of making them sound the same by putting them through and equaliser, which seems pointless.
 
shooter69:aliEnRIK:As for blind tests, seeming as a 200 quid amp sounded exactly the same as a 20k one, I do have my doubts about them

What amps that?

I want one.

This is the best example I have found....
http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf
 
aliEnRIK:As for blind tests, seeming as a 200 quid amp sounded exactly the same as a 20k one, I do have my doubts about them

Eh?

Which blind test ever demonstrated that? Please don't tell me you mean the Richard Clark 'challenge' as that invited huge fees from participants, had very suspect rules, and no results have ever been published. (And Richard Clark has been un-contactable since 2006 except via a car audio sales website.)
 
idc:[http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf

Interesting to a degree but outdated and i would want to own any of those amps may be the Levinson if i had no choice.
 
chebby:
aliEnRIK:As for blind tests, seeming as a 200 quid amp sounded exactly the same as a 20k one, I do have my doubts about them

Eh?

Which blind test ever demonstrated that? Please don't tell me you mean the Richard Clark 'challenge' as that invited huge fees from participants, had very suspect rules, and no results have ever been published. (And Richard Clark has been un-contactable since 2006 except via a car audio sales website.)

Nope
http://www.bruce.coppola.name/audio/Amp_Sound.pdf
 
Getting back on topic, I think that Belden's actions are just plain wrong. They should have stated that their own testing disproves directionality. They would still have sold cables and alleged directionality would have been killed off in its infancy and not become audio hogwash.
 
idc:Getting back on topic, I think that Belden's actions are just plain wrong. They should have stated that their own testing disproves directionality. They would still have sold cables and alleged directionality would have been killed off in its infancy and not become audio hogwash.

Im sorry but blind testing doesnt disprove anything. It can only PROVE things (If properly controlled).
 
aliEnRIK:
Im sorry but blind testing doesnt disprove anything. It can only PROVE things (If properly controlled).

No need to be, being blind doesn't prove anything, i always thought listening was key.
 
aliEnRIK:
idc:Getting back on topic, I think that Belden's actions are just plain wrong. They should have stated that their own testing disproves directionality. They would still have sold cables and alleged directionality would have been killed off in its infancy and not become audio hogwash.

Im sorry but blind testing doesnt disprove anything. It can only PROVE things (If properly controlled).

Bah! Pedant! Belden's blind testing proves there is no such thing as directionality.
 
idc:aliEnRIK:
idc:Getting back on topic, I think that Belden's actions are just plain wrong. They should have stated that their own testing disproves directionality. They would still have sold cables and alleged directionality would have been killed off in its infancy and not become audio hogwash.

Im sorry but blind testing doesnt disprove anything. It can only PROVE things (If properly controlled).

Bah! Pedant! Belden's blind testing proves there is no such thing as directionality.

And in the measured test I saw, it proves directionality can occur and make a measured difference
Or should we just discard all measurements in the future?
 
Cant really post the link, but heres the crux copied and pasted ~
REMOVED BY MODS - please do not post copyright material
 
Interesting point, and not necessarily one for the flat earthers, but if you can't actually hear somehting that you can measure, does it make it any different? If the ultimate test is what you hear, and you cannot hear any difference, then surely a test lab result is pointless? So the real question is honestly, can anyone really hear any difference if they reverse their cables, and not such a small change that it could just be imaginable...?
 
This is very true and there may be no audible difference at all when reversing a cable. The situation maybe leaning towards a resistance and that the signal being sent is simply swimming up stream, it will get their but it will only find it harder.
 
shooter69:This is very true and there may be no audible difference at all when reversing a cable. The situation maybe leaning towards a resistance and that the signal being sent is simply swimming up stream, it will get their but it will only find it harder.

Which might apply if the current flowed in one direction only, which it doesn't. Speakers are driven by AC of varying frequency, so the electrons vibrate back and forth along the cable at the same frequency being reproduced.That one begs the whole question of directionality.
 
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