Buying second hand - what are your experiences?

[idc]

How have you got on when you have bought second hand? What your good, bad and ugly stories? I have lusted after some Krell kit, but the £1000 plus expected price combined with no returns made me think, that seems very risky. But a friend has bought a brand new Bose Lifestyle system and not looked back.

 

[Anonymous]

I have bought 2 amps from ebay and a beresford dac, I have absolutely no complaints, items arrived in perfect condition and very promptly. I think the key is the sellers rating and in general it seems like hi fi owners really take pride in their stuff. However if I was going to pay out the type of money you are talking about, I would probably feel safer picking it up myself.

 

[John Duncan]

idc:But a friend has bought a brand new Bose Lifestyle system and not looked back.

(tick tock)

Mine have been pretty good - have bought both a Primare D20 and A20 off a well-known auction site, for £212 and £315 respectively. No problems with either, other than a propensity to skip in the case of the D20, which was fixed with a quick lens clean.

 

[the record spot]

Mixed for me - bought 3 items - one a big success (my speakers), one a dismal flop (Sytemdek turntable advertised as "excellent" but in fact, in a mess - returned and refund sent after weeks), the last a BT Mains Unit which came with a 90 day warranty, mains power cable broken.

Generally good that said; but very much a case of caveat emptor. The speakers were a great buy though, but just be careful. I think I have learnt my lesson to a degree which probably is to ask more questions and check for photos, etc.

For the Krell kit - good price, but really looking for some comeback or returns policy on that.

 

[d_a_n1979]

Ive never had problems selling or buying on sites re 2nd hand hifi

As above; the key thing is to make sure that the seller is an enthusiast (the items for sale will give that away i think) but also to make sure that their feedback and ratings are good

If theyre a new user then agree to pay cash on collection and you're laughing.

 

[fatboyslimfast]

d_a_n1979:If theyre a new user then agree to pay cash on collection and you're laughing.

For me, collection is key. That way, if you get there and it's a crock, you can argue in person before handing over the cash. Also, you can see it working (if described as such) and can guarantee that you will get the item you are paying for.

I've had a "lost in post" - a genuine one - and whilst eventually refunded by the courier, the process of getting compensation was arduous to say the least.

Don't try and barter if it is as described though - that goes against the rules...

 

[Anonymous]

My experiences have been excellent, my cdp, amp and speakers are all secondhand. The CD player was a gamble, I bought it off an online marketplace, only by judging the pictures and through e-mail contact but it turned out to be a fantastic buy, I got a straight bargain in excellent condition.

I payed for the amp on collection, after hearing/seeing it in action and it's been phenomenal, I got an excellent amp for a great price. The same goes for my speakers, after a year orso I bought them from the guy I bought my amp from and they've been like new, once again a bargain.

My previous cd player also was second hand, bought it off a dealer with a warrantee and it's still working flawless, albeit over at a friends house.

I also bought an amp once through a dealer, but it broke down on me 15 minutes after unpacking it. Luckily I had a 3 month guarantee and I got a full refund for it.

 

[idc]

So is it ebay all the way or are there better places?

 

[tonky]

Excellent - from the local newspaper ads over a lengthy period of time. A pioneer a400, rega brio , denon cd player Tannoy mercury speakers, epos es14 speakers including custom stands and biwire cable. All excellent value for money.

 

[Anonymous]

Go for it. I have heard many favourable comments...Just use your common-sense. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Good luck

 

[Anonymous]

SuccessCoachingUK:
Go for it. I have heard many favourable comments...Just use your common-sense. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Good luck

I disagree with this, as my list will show.... and then I will explain why later in the bit after the list..... it is common sense though.

All purchasing has been done through Ebay......

Success stories:

Arcam CD73T - £100. It was sold as spares or repair and was repaired by
Arcam as it had failed under something which Arcam was repairing for
free.

Arcam A65+ - £75. Great amp sold it on at a profit to an Italian fella.

Arcam
CD72T/A85/P85. - £600. I sold the CD72T immediately for £200..... I am
listening the the A85/P85 combo now..... it is great.

Arcam CD192 - £195. Brilliant, like new.

Mission M64i's - £179 - brand new. I like them, powerful.

Tannoy M20 Gold Mk.II with target stands - £30. Great.

Wharfedale W40 speakers (big 40 litre things) with stands - £5.50. Brilliant, they move air... you can dry your hair on them.... or in my case my scalp.

Marantz CD63 Mk II K.I.Signature - £100. Pretty good, nice to have one.

Cambridge Audio pre/power amp combo £40 - nice. Could do with a service.

Nightmares

Bought an Arcam Alpha 9/9P and Marantz CD-63 Mk II K.I.Signature (different to the one above). I paid £300 and I bought them in one Ebay advert. My plan was to split them and sell them individually and make some money.

The seller described them as perfect working condition. They were not. I test everything I sell extensively. I managed to work out that the 9P was shot. However I had used bill money to buy them, the turn around was not happening, so I started a Paypal 'not as described case' (after communication and he had refused refund). I won that. However I had to swallow postage costs (there and back and so that was £60). This meant that I had to get £240 from an Alpha 9 and Marantz K.I.Sig (and then whatever for the 9P spares or repair). I was confident that I could do that.... but, there were other minor faults and I could not afford for the person who bought from me (although I would of honestly described them) to return them.... I needed to pay EDF. So I swallowed the cost.

My worst nightmare story is not that I was ripped off, it is that someone did not adequately describe the item and I returned and got my money back, minus the postage. Now read my successes again.

Tips for secondhand

To answer something from the questioner direct.... he says that 'but the £1000 plus expected price combined with no returns made me think'. Well I have to ask where was the seller selling them through. If it is a shop then there are statutory rights which allow you to return and remove that risk.... and if it was Ebay then there was no risk at all.

It does not matter that the seller says 'no returns' there are certain conditions which they must abide. If the seller has said in the advert that they work and are free of damage and you get them and that does not prove to be true.... then Paypal and Ebay will refund you your money. So in my nightmare scenario because the seller had written 'good working condition' and they were not, this meant that when he told me that they did not accept returns.... he was over-ruled by Paypal. Return them I did and I was duly refunded. If it had been me and the Krell's I would of made two payments of £500 each... this is because Paypal only protect you up to £500... so I would of bought each speaker individually.... (similar protection is afforded you by your credit card company - subject to conditions - so buying on-line [NOT THROUGH AMAZON THIRD PARTY DEALERS] means that you are protected there too).

As long the item is described as working and good then there is no danger in buying through Ebay as long as you pay through Paypal and use postal services that track pakages. Same goes for if you pay on a credit card (again read your individual card providers terms).

So if it looks too good to be true, but they are clear that it is true then get it - should it prove not to be true you are given the tools and are protected, full stop.

I cannot afford to buy good equipment new and I freely buy secondhand and will not stop......

Ebay also allows you to ascertain market value for secondhand equipment and as everything that we buy is mass produced there is no need to rush a purchase. Decide what you want and how much you want to pay for it......... and wait. I guarantee that you will get it eventually.

It is gggggggggggreat!

 

[Anonymous]

Of my current hifi kit I bought the following 2nd hand:

- DAC-XP from a forum member - under a year old
- Mono-X from eBay - brand new, still shrink wrapped for about 40% of retail from a dealer employee benefiting from a staff discount!
- one PSX-R from a forum member
- Isolda speaker and DCT300 I/C from forum members

The savings to be made are huge and as long as you are buying relatively new kit you can generally buy with confidence - like buying a one year old car. At the same time mistakes are less costly (buying kit you don't like the sound of) as you can generally sell it for what you paid for it leaving much more room for experimentation. Few tips:
- its good to buy from various forum members as they have their rep to protect and are always great to deal with in my experience
- when buying from ebay insist on cash and collection - this can limit your options but is safer
- try to get at least a verbal guarantee from someone that they will deal with warranty claims for you if its not transferable (one of my Monos failed after a week and had to go back to Cyrus for repair, the seller handled this for me)

Oh forgot:
- MF X-CAN V3 - another eBay purchase
- Spendor speakers about 4 months old - another eBay purchase with inspection and cash payment (contacted via eBay and did the deal off line with collection in person)

Overall all my hifi stuff new or from a dealer would have cost me about £9.5k but I have paid nearer to £5.5k and most of it is new or brand new and easily convertible into at least £4k to £4.5k in cash now.

 

[JoelSim]

99% good news, but always insist on picking expensive items up.

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

idc:So is it ebay all the way or are there better places?

Ebay has pretty much market hegemony.... so it does define the market value of things.... and it is the easiest place to buy/sell and the most protected (they have spent 20 years pioneering secondhand on-line trading and it shows) , sheer popularity means that you will find what it is that you are looking for......... no matter how rare.

However it is not your only choice by a mile.

Ebid is a new website set up in direct competition with Ebay and is attempting to cater to people who are disgruntled with Ebay..... Ebay are bad for fees and customer services, but in general the benefits almost always out wiegh the negatives with Ebay....

Gumtree is for people who are suspicious of the Ebay way and want something which approximates traditional 'Free papers'. You are encouraged to advertise and ask (as a seller) for what you want ..... people scan these pages and e-mail offers.... you then swap numbers and pick-up and cash payment. It is designed for people who want to deal face to face, for people who feel that they way is safer. The irony for me is that there is less protection and it is more open to abuse...... but it suits some people better.

Craigslist is the American version of Gumtree which has come over here (Craigslist was first but Gumtree is better realised and more well known over here).

Finally there are specialised hi fi selling sites..... I only know of hififorsale.com..... whose parent company has gone into liquidation. It is still there and still has adverts..... however only people who have accounts that were opened before the liquidation can list onto it..... so if you want to sell that will be hard..... buying is fine, but I am not sure what guarantees and protections are in place if the offive is closed and no-one is administering it....... still I do not know, my doubt is hear say.

So Ebay is not your only route........... but it is certainly, IMO, the easiest and the better one, based upon the effort they make to pretect you.

 

[matthewpiano]

Excellent experiences here. Some excellent advice given in this thread already which I don't need to repeat. I just believe that you get far more for your money second hand. I've just bought a complete system and some other bits and pieces second hand and, so far, I'm delighted.

 

[tonky]

Matthew - What have you done with your Denon cd player and amp? - Am surprised you want to change.

 

[matthewpiano]

tonky:Matthew - What have you done with your Denon cd player and amp? - Am surprised you want to change.

Sold them. Very capable kit in many ways and I enjoyed them for quite some time but in the end I found it too much like listening with the loudness button pressed all the time (and there actually is no loudness button on the 1500AE!!). It was a very ballsy sound which, in the end, was just too much in my small(ish) listening space. Like I say, the Denons are excellent (if ridiculously expensive at their new prices), but in the end they didn't suit my room or preferences.

 

[d_a_n1979]

eBay is the best place IMO but its also worth sticking the ad up on Audiophilecandy as well seeing as thats free!

With regards to eBay; i sold my Arcam Alpha 9 integrated amp, 9P power amp, Alpha 9 CDP and Alpha 8SE CDP as well as QED interconnects, speaker cable and M/A RS6 speakers all within a week (Sunday to Sunday auction) and got what i wanted for them.

I've also bought B&W 602 S2 and S3 speakers off there as well as speaker stands, NAD amps and CDP's and all speaker cables and interconnects.

Never had an issue with any of it, thank god!

My main concern though is the people on there that have an item to sell and its fully boxed but they wont ship as they feels its too fragile or too big; and if they do ship it the costs are extortionate!

I've sent amps and CDP's via Parcel2go for less than £15 and theyve arrived in 48hours with all insurance! Those that say theyre posting for c£25 and above; stay away; theyre making profit from the postage fees!!!

There are also some folks who wont ship speakers even though theyve got all the packaging! Again; if you use a courier youre fine as long as theres insurance!

The 'postage' issues put me right off sometimes and im sure it does for a lot of other people as well!

 

[Anonymous]

I agree totally with the common sense approach and I think the vast majority of hi-fi sellers are pretty honest (there's always exceptions of course). I always use parcel2go aswell for the hi-fi stuff I sell through ebay and they're brilliant. Must be honest I've not bought anything duff from ebay most recent being a Rega Planar P3 in immaculate condition and will probably end up selling my Focal Chorus 714's through ebay in the summer.

 

[idc]

bloatedgut:

To answer something from the questioner direct.... he says that 'but the £1000 plus expected price combined with no returns made me think'. Well I have to ask where was the seller selling them through. If it is a shop then there are statutory rights which allow you to return and remove that risk.... and if it was Ebay then there was no risk at all.

It does not matter that the seller says 'no returns' there are certain conditions which they must abide.

It appeared to be a private sale and it was on ebay. I didn't buy it. But what does a seller mean by no returns? Is it a case of so long as there is no problem with the goods there is no comeback?

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with the postage, made me chuckle. It's silly and you are right some are stupid prices for delivery and reasons why they too scared to post. Damn annoying when it is something you really want.

If they specifically say no returns then beware. Ask them why. Otherwise just ask them anyway because I dont tick the option for returns when I list and I have had no problem with my listings. Most people will be good if you have a problem.

 

[Anonymous]

idc:bloatedgut:

To answer something from the questioner direct.... he says that 'but the £1000 plus expected price combined with no returns made me think'. Well I have to ask where was the seller selling them through. If it is a shop then there are statutory rights which allow you to return and remove that risk.... and if it was Ebay then there was no risk at all.

It does not matter that the seller says 'no returns' there are certain conditions which they must abide.

It appeared to be a private sale and it was on ebay. I didn't buy it. But what does a seller mean by no returns? Is it a case of so long as there is no problem with the goods there is no comeback?

I do not know what the seller meant..... it is entirely possible that he means that once this deal goes through there is no returning no matter what............. (certainly I have encountered people who thought that the case).......... but that is by the by.

It is what the Ebay and Paypal mean by 'no returns' that matters...... and what no returns mean in this sense is if the item has nothing wrong with it. Because it is buying and selling over the internet there are instances where a seller has to accept returns, (this is actually enshrined in European and British Law - consumer acts specifically designed to protect people trading over the internet) as long as the item is in the same condition as when it was sold and the packaging is present.... etc.

So, for example, a person who is registered as a business user (on Ebay) and who is offering things for sale on a 'buy-it-now' basis (maybe the goods have to be over a certain value..... I would have to check that)........ are required to allow returns at least 7 days after the receipt of the goods.

In the case of the Krell's it is a private seller.... so the situation is (under the rules) that he accepts no returns unless the article is not as described. So if you got the Krell's and they were fine, but too large, not the great sound you expected (but not defective) or simply the wrong colour....... tough. You deal with that. However if they are not as described or broken when you receive them the seller has to accept the return and if they refuse you start a Paypal dispute and you will win..... you will be protected up to £500 (hence the buy them one speaker at a time).

 

[Anonymous]

All my experience - both buying and selling - has been good, but I don't have too much of it. I've bought an amplifier and two CD players from Ebay and sold a CD player and a tuner. I bought a tuner through a local on-line free advertisement service. In all cases products were as described and worked a treat. However, I should say that these low-ish-end products, except a Rega Planet 2000 CD player that cost £200. So all purchases were covered by Paypal anyway and the risk wasn't too great. Still, for me second-hand is the only option for financial reasons, and I will stick to it for the time being.

Hedgeohg

 

[Anonymous]

Most of my hifi is second hand.
My CDP was ebay £200 buy it now, perfect condition and has never missed a beat.
My Audiolab (£150) was from Rayleigh Hifi with 3 months warranty!
My NAD was a gift (sort of I found it in my dads garage) and hums a bit (noisy transformer?) but sounds lush.

Oh and the B&W's were from Cash Convertor (£70) with 30 day warranty (which didn't cover if I blew them, so seemed a bit flakey).
Not forgetting a lovely set of 5 Ruark cinema speakers from work (Prologue, epilogue and dialogue) and a REL Q100 for £400! Sounded amazing but just too big and black. I still have the Prologues which i'm sanding down to revarnish and sell on ebay for about £300 (the sound is just fantastic, such scale and composure - really rich and vivid. I already sold the dialogue and epilogues for £150.

After all most hifi is built very well and failures are as likely in the early days as near the end of life (bathtub chart). Plus there's lots of knowledge and help available online for the major brands.

I just love the flexibility it affords...I can buy a £1000 amp for £300 and it looks and sounds as it did when it was factory fresh. If I dont like it I can sell it at minimal loss.