Bluesound Icon or Eversolo A6

[Al ears]

There will be an exact and correct way to describe anything being sold, although that isn't always the case. If a customer buys something, returns it after a couple of days use, how do you label it? Open box? Used? Technically both, but those two are quite different in my eyes. To me, 'open box' is something that has never been plugged in.

Mine to, however ex-demo does not mean a customer return which you seemed to be implying.
If that is then taken away by a customer and returned surely it becomes second-hand?
To me if it's demoed anywhere other than the dealers premises it is no longer ex demo.
If not it is not surprising some dealers have the reputation that they have.
If it has left the shop and sold to a customer, or not, simply sent for a home demo then it is clearly second-hand.......

 

[Al ears]

Mine to, however ex-demo does not mean a customer return which you seemed to be implying.
If that is then taken away by a customer and returned surely it becomes second-hand?
If not it is not surprising some dealers have the reputation that they have.
If it has left the shop and sold to a customer, or not, simply sent for a home demo then it is clearly second-hand.......

All the more reason for some to avoid certain dealerships.
If that's the way it goes best to avoid and simply buy new because most warranties will be void anyway.

 

[davidf]

Mine to, however ex-demo does not mean a customer return which you seemed to be implying.
If that is then taken away by a customer and returned surely it becomes second-hand?
To me if it's demoed anywhere other than the dealers premises it is no longer ex demo.
If not it is not surprising some dealers have the reputation that they have.
If it has left the shop and sold to a customer, or not, simply sent for a home demo then it is clearly second-hand.......

I agree.

 

[Al ears]

I agree.

Thanks.
Clearly demonstrates that, if not buying new, you have to interrogate dealers on their exact terminology.

 

[James105]

Surely they would have to state that if it were the case?
If they are they're second-hand.
Ex demo to me means exactly that, they have never left a shop.
And, you have to prove your allegations......
Can you?

All three are labelled as ex dem, I guess that could include a home loan unit thats never actually been sold?

 

[Al ears]

All three are labelled as ex dem, I guess that could include a home loan unit thats never actually been sold?

All the more reason to check with the dealer. That makes it second-hand in my book whether it's been sold or not.
Someone else has used it.
If they are second-hand they are overpriced

 

[James105]

All the more reason to check with the dealer. That makes it second-hand in my book whether it's been sold or not.
Someone else has used it.
If they are second-hand they are overpriced

And yet we always advise try for a home demo, that home demo unit is now 2nd hand and has to be sold for peanuts? Or do we who encourage or demand home loans accept that thats considered ex-dem? We cant have it both ways can we.

 

[Witterings]

I think there's a difference between what we as customers think should be the case vs the reality .... we all want home demos, if those units are now to be considered 2nd hand an approx rule of thumb is they're worth about 60% of their retail cost which I'm sure is probably less than the dealer pays the manufacturer for them. so they'd instantly be into a loss making situation ..... We'd never get home demos.

I've always taken the opinion that open box means it's been tested and sent back simply because there's often no way to know if it's been switched on and most people returning goods won't want to take a big hit on a restocking fee so may not be "completely" transparent with what they say.

Personally, I think it's a matter of going in with your eyes open, assuming the worst case scenario and evaluate each purchase on it's merits.
Are the goods in immaculate condition, is the discount enough to make it worthwhile and do I still get a full warranty and make a decision from there.

I recently bought a latest generation Bluesound Node as "ex-demo" from Sevenoaks, it was £150 off, arrived in immaculate condition with all the cables still in their wrapping and had a full warranty ..... I'm a happy bunny.

 

[matthewpianist]

Ultimately, this is a very good reason for building a relationship with a dealer you can put your trust in. I've known situations where demo units were always opened from the bottom so that they could be resealed and sold as new without suspicion. A good dealer with whom you build a relationship wouldn't do that.

Add that to a carefully selected dealer stocking a range of product appropriate to your needs and interests, offering good in-house demo facilities, bringing their own expertise and experience, offering straightforward support when you need it and, increasingly, the possibility of part-exchanging your equipment if/when you upgrade in the future, and it's really a no-brainer. There are some decent online retailers, but it takes repeated experience and risk to know who they are, whereas a visit to a bricks-and-mortar shop can tell you a lot in a short space of time, before you hand over your money.

 

[davidf]

I think there's a difference between what we as customers think should be the case vs the reality .... we all want home demos, if those units are now to be considered 2nd hand an approx rule of thumb is they're worth about 60% of their retail cost which I'm sure is probably less than the dealer pays the manufacturer for them. so they'd instantly be into a loss making situation ..... We'd never get home demos.

I've always taken the opinion that open box means it's been tested and sent back simply because there's often no way to know if it's been switched on and most people returning goods won't want to take a big hit on a restocking fee so may not be "completely" transparent with what they say.

Personally, I think it's a matter of going in with your eyes open, assuming the worst case scenario and evaluate each purchase on it's merits.
Are the goods in immaculate condition, is the discount enough to make it worthwhile and do I still get a full warranty and make a decision from there.

I recently bought a latest generation Bluesound Node as "ex-demo" from Sevenoaks, it was £150 off, arrived in immaculate condition with all the cables still in their wrapping and had a full warranty ..... I'm a happy bunny.

Restocking fees can only be charged on items that were a special order, and by special order I mean built to order to a requested specification that results in a non standard item - like a gloss pink pair of Fyne Audios, for example.

Open box and ex demo are usually full warranty, apart from some manufacturers who start their warranty from date of manufacture (like Naim). If an electronic item been on demo for five years or something ridiculous, the manufacturer may not want to fully warrant the item.

Open box should be just something that has been opened and never used. It should be as new.

Ex-demo is something that will have been used, and maybe loaned out to customers for home audition. Some dealers do that, some no longer do.

I get a little sceptical when I see "opened but never used", as I can't really think of any situation where that would be a likely scenario, other than maybe the unit was used as static display at a show. Maybe it's a shop demo unit that has never been used (unlikely), but even if it hasn't, that would still be classed as "ex-demo" in my opinion.

"Used" is a customer part exchanging their old unit, that they may have had for any length of time.

What would be the correct classification of buying a unit and returning it under DSR regulations (within 28 days)? In my opinion, DSR's are a very one sided Government invention that is completely anti-business, and likely the bane of small independent businesses. But that aside, returns should really fall under used, but it could be sold on as any of the above, depending on the morals of the dealer.

 

[Al ears]

Restocking fees can only be charged on items that were a special order, and by special order I mean built to order to a requested specification that results in a non standard item - like a gloss pink pair of Fyne Audios, for example.

Open box and ex demo are usually full warranty, apart from some manufacturers who start their warranty from date of manufacture (like Naim). If an electronic item been on demo for five years or something ridiculous, the manufacturer may not want to fully warrant the item.

Open box should be just something that has been opened and never used. It should be as new.

Ex-demo is something that will have been used, and maybe loaned out to customers for home audition. Some dealers do that, some no longer do.

I get a little sceptical when I see "opened but never used", as I can't really think of any situation where that would be a likely scenario, other than maybe the unit was used as static display at a show. Maybe it's a shop demo unit that has never been used (unlikely), but even if it hasn't, that would still be classed as "ex-demo" in my opinion.

"Used" is a customer part exchanging their old unit, that they may have had for any length of time.

What would be the correct classification of buying a unit and returning it under DSR regulations (within 28 days)? In my opinion, DSR's are a very one sided Government invention that is completely anti-business, and likely the bane of small independent businesses. But that aside, returns should really fall under used, but it could be sold on as any of the above, depending on the morals of the dealer.

Many thanks for that explanation.

 

[nopiano]

The only company I’ve come across who publicly defines all their different levels of not totally new is Peter Tyson, on this page. https://petertyson.co.uk/clearance
They even have a brief YouTube video explaining each category. I’m sure alternative methods could be just as valid, but at least it’s transparent.

A smaller business who deals more ‘face to face’ than mail order wouldn’t need to go to such lengths, but I can see how ‘home shopping’ cannot be resisted, as we’ve all become accustomed to that, whether through Amazon, or thanks to Covid, or simply because it’s more convenient to browse online than drive, bus or train into a town/city and then decide.

I sympathise with David that DSR are very consumer oriented, and gives retailers little or no redress for unsaleable or damaged returns. On the rare occasions I’ve returned things the usual reaction has been ‘I can hardly tell it’s been opened’ and that’s when I realise I’ve remembered how to unbox things carefully from my store days!

 

[The_Lecht_Rocks]

got mine brand new from 7oaks for £750 earlier this year.
they were on sale new over the weekend on 7oaks for £750 too. looks like advertised price returned to full RRP