Better CD transport . . .?

[CJSF]

Getting back into HiFi is proving to most enjoyable, revisiting CD I have not heard for at least 16/17 years, through speakers mothballed at the same time. I dont have a CD player, so I'm using my Computer . . . !!! Waiting for the DAC to arrive.

Question; . . . I will get a new computer eventually . . . ? How much affect does a 'CD/DVD transport' have on the eventual music reproduction? Can a better 'transport' be specified, if so, is it worth it, anyone got any coments . . . or would one be better off with a dedicated CD player??? Again, because its been so long, I have no idea what is available?

Another point, which RCA/phono inputs would you choose into an integrated amp, ie: CD=****input???, Computer=****input???, or, perhaps it dont matter? On the present 'stop gap' Rotel 820 amp, which, incidentally, is doing a sterling job . . . I have CD, Radio and Tape inputs, plus Phono, to which I may at a later date connect a turn table???

CJSF

 

[chebby]

Can a better 'transport' be specified, if so, is it worth it, anyone got any coments . . . or would one be better off with a dedicated CD player???

Here is an idea.

You like valve amps.

How about something like the Audiolab 8200CDQ to feed one?

It is a CD player, DAC and fully balanced, Class A pre-amplifier (with a full range of digital and RCA analogue inputs and remote control.) It also sports a built-in, Class A headphone amp.

This could act as source, DAC and pre-amp to a valve power-amplifier. (Like one of those Croft valve power amps that cost about £700).

Just a thought.

I don't know what your eventual budget is, or whether you plan to use those white ash Rogers LS3/5As you mentioned the other day. (Or whether you will sell them to fund/part fund your hifi plans.)

 

[Overdose]

I would say that the transport part of the system would have the least effect. The DAC would have more effect, then amp and finally, the speakers having the most effect on overall sound quality.

I'm steering away from disc players (other than universal players for DVD etc) and playing back 'ripped' files from CDs via the computer and DAC and then on to active speakers. I find my Pc just as good as my DVD player for CD playback through a DAC, but with better speakers impending, I'm expecting to hear some more differences between sources.

 

[CJSF]

I have not decided on anything yet . . . apart from the 'HRT USB/DCA music streamer', thats my system sorted until the studio/study is sorted. Its amazing, digging into my old CD collection, some CD's are so poor, it made me wince, at first I thought it was the inadequate hotch-potch of a system I've thrown together? Then I put on Jennifer Warnes 'Famous Blue Raincoat', sweet as a nut . . . Then an old Decca CD; JS Bach, Famous Organ Works, played by Peter Hurford, Toccata & Fugue in D minor needs some holding onto by any system, especially at the level I was playing it at!!!!

Currently my 'system'???????? . . . is perched on a set of wooden stacking shelves, speakers sitting on the top shelf 18" apart, 50" off the ground . . . !!! I'm sitting sideways to it, 3 feet away, ears level with the bottom of the speakers :~ . . . I was hearing imaging tight as you like, with clear indication of the pipe banking, high, wide and deep, some were in the the kitchen next door, bass from the folded horns growled and rolled around the room, whilst those 'high' pipes sang the sweetest song.

Not perfect obviously, but this is beginning to sound like my music room is going to be better acoustically than I thought, small at 11ftx11ft but the ceiling at 9ft high might be its saving grace?

I was simply asking if a better CD mechanism might help? . . . one suspects not other than reliability . . . as far as the Audiolab CD/pre . . . its an option that I will look at, although I will be getting and paying for stuff I am unlikely to need??

Anyone answer which inputs to use??? or, it doesn't matter?

Whist typing this, I'm listening to Linn downloads of Carol Kidd, 'Dont Worry About Me' is magic, one of my old test tracks. I also had a listen to 'Allgri Meserere', not quite the image I know it is capable of but surprisingly good, all things considered . . . and the volume is well down at 12.45am . . . voice articulation on both recordings, I had forgotten was so clear and tactile . . .

I'm still a little bewildered at the perceived quality the Rotel 820 is producing? its almost 'I hear it but do I believe it'??? or is it me being content to have 'decent music reproduction' after so many years? I do remember the UK field listening tests Rotel used to do in the 80's. I new the guy who was their consultant at the time, very strange set up?

CJSF

 

[Mr Morph]

I was simply asking if a better CD mechanism might help?

A good transport will always help, but on the whole what has been written before by others is correct. The transport doesn't have a great impact on the sound quality. I'll have to get my Dads budget Marantz over here, and stick it through my system to make sure. But my previous experience is that their is minimal difference. And I might add, is anyone even making a good dedicated transport today?

Having said all this, I do like a good old fashioned metal transport, and preferably with a high speed linear motor. I like solid build quality, and instant access to tracks. Although, whether I'd be prepared to pay an extortionate amount of money for one is another question? I hate to think how much a transport like that would cost nowadays, I'm sure the retailers will pitch in at some point?

As far as the Rotel is concerned, if it makes you happy, relish the experience, because it can be a rare feeling in hi-fi!

 

[True Blue]

The transport is of EQUAL importance to the DAC in my opinion. Source first.

Ok some are going to say tis 0s and 1s and that is true, but how accurate is the retrieval system? Getting more data off the disc with less errors means the DAC has an easier job and has more to work with.

Just my experience of listening to a Rega Apollo (loan) through my Rega DAC and a Rega Saturn (mine), difference is not subtle.

If there was no difference I would have sold my Saturn, but there is.

 

[The_Lhc]

The transport is of EQUAL importance to the DAC in my opinion. Source first.

Trouble is, he's using the CD drive *in his computer*, which is a horrific idea, if you ask me.

 

[James7]

Transports do ,make a difference though arguably not as much as the DAC. Going for something like the Audiolab mentioned above or Marantz SA Ki Pearl Lite (£700) is one solution as both have multi-input DACs and a dedicated built-in transport. If you go for an external DAC and want to audition a dedicated transport against that in your compiter, Musical Fidelity have a £600 transport with balanced as well as unbalanced outputs, the M1 CDT.

 

[Mr Morph]

Just my experience of listening to a Rega Apollo (loan) through my Rega DAC and a Rega Saturn (mine), difference is not subtle. If there was no difference I would have sold my Saturn, but there is.

Which is unusual, because both the 'Rega Apollo' and 'Saturn' use exactly the same transport mechanism, the Sanyo SF-P101N. Which kind of indicates that there was a fault with one of them, or your DAC prefers the clock speed of one above the other?

But I totally agree with what you said about information retrieval from the disk, very important.

 

[True Blue]

Just my experience of listening to a Rega Apollo (loan) through my Rega DAC and a Rega Saturn (mine), difference is not subtle. If there was no difference I would have sold my Saturn, but there is.

Which is unusual, because both the 'Rega Apollo' and 'Saturn' use exactly the same transport mechanism, the Sanyo SF-P101N. Which kind of indicates that there was a fault with one of them, or your DAC prefers the clock speed of one above the other?

But I totally agree with what you said about information retrieval from the disk, very important.

Yep same transport mechanism, different internals, dont know better digital out circuits, who knows, but neither of them were faulty. Perhaps like Naim, they choose the tighter toleranced componants on the Saturn, who knows.

 

[True Blue]

The transport is of EQUAL importance to the DAC in my opinion. Source first.

Trouble is, he's using the CD drive *in his computer*, which is a horrific idea, if you ask me.

Thankgod you said that, I thought I was alone in thinking that

 

[CJSF]

The transport is of EQUAL importance to the DAC in my opinion. Source first.

Trouble is, he's using the CD drive *in his computer*, which is a horrific idea, if you ask me.

Thankgod you said that, I thought I was alone in thinking that

Thats why I asked the question, in my day, turntable, arm, cartridge was paramount . . . 'garbage in, garbage out' . . . not being to sure how digital sees information on a disk?? One has always been lead to believe, in the digital world, its either 'on or off', 'seen or not seen' . . . no grey areas?

You are suggesting the transport mechanism has similar characteristics to an analogue turntable?? Perhaps the quality of the laser is more important?

I have no idea, but my enquiring mind thinks :| . . . ??

I thought the same as 'The_Lhc', Computer transports are cheap and nasty but my ears tell me, cheap and nasty is producing some surprising sound . . . from the better cd's! through a scratch system 'perched' on a 34inch wide, 4ft high, stacking shelf . . . I hear it but, experience says it should not be so . . . ??? :~ If it dont improve when I get the room sorted . . . ??? what do I do then J) Negative thoughts, we dont like negative thinking 8)

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

As far as the Rotel is concerned, if it makes you happy, relish the experience, because it can be a rare feeling in hi-fi!

That is whole point of the exercise Morph, 'enjoy my music' . . . I am certainly getting great pleasure in wallowing in my past . . . however, that past was very much as an '80's Audiophile', great at the time which then turned and 'bit hard'!!! Dont want to go back there. However, it appears, I still have an 'ear', this one cannot ignore.

My Father, enjoyed his music for its own sake, with the Rotel 820 as its heart. For 10 years, he lived in an annex in my house, a number of times I offered him better equipment, he always declined with a smile . . . perhaps he new something I am just discovering . . .

CJSF

 

[Mr Morph]

My Father, enjoyed his music for its own sake, with the Rotel 820 as its heart. For 10 years, he lived in an annex in my house, a number of times I offered him better equipment, he always declined with a smile . . . perhaps he new something I am just discovering . . . CJSF

That's the kind of post I love to read, nothing technical, and all about the love of music! As it should be! And I had a dig around in my hi-fi clippings, and what do you know, I came up with a review of the Rotel 820 as part of an all Rotel system. Here what Which Compact Disc had to say about it in April 1987;

'The amplifier runs warm, and improves as the circuitry attains working temperature. The sound has an effortlessness that is rare at this price level. One has the totally convincing impression of listening to music rather than to a hi-fi system'

There you go, it's the same old story... simple engineering that has the dignity to let the music speak for itself. Enjoy!

 

[chebby]

Thats why I asked the question, in my day, turntable, arm, cartridge was paramount . . . 'garbage in, garbage out' . . . not being to sure how digital sees information on a disk?? One has always been lead to believe, in the digital world, its either 'on or off', 'seen or not seen' . . . no grey areas? You are suggesting the transport mechanism has similar characteristics to an analogue turntable?? Perhaps the quality of the laser is more important? I have no idea, but my enquiring mind thinks :| . . . ?? I thought the same as 'The_Lhc', Computer transports are cheap and nasty but my ears tell me, cheap and nasty is producing some surprising sound . . . from the better cd's! through a scratch system 'perched' on a 34inch wide, 4ft high, stacking shelf . . . I hear it but, experience says it should not be so . . . ??? :~ If it dont improve when I get the room sorted . . . ??? what do I do then J) Negative thoughts, we dont like negative thinking 8) CJSF

It's just that you appear to be using the PC drive as a CD player. This is not a good idea.

You will get much better results using the drive in the computer to rip the music files from your CDs to something like iTunes (in lossless) and then playing them as files through a DAC attached to your PC and hifi. Then they will rival a dedicated CD player for quality.

 

[CJSF]

My Father, enjoyed his music for its own sake, with the Rotel 820 as its heart. For 10 years, he lived in an annex in my house, a number of times I offered him better equipment, he always declined with a smile . . . perhaps he new something I am just discovering . . . CJSF

That's the kind of post I love to read, nothing technical, and all about the love of music! As it should be! And I had a dig around in my hi-fi clippings, and what do you know, I came up with a review of the Rotel 820 as part of an all Rotel system. Here what Which Compact Disc had to say about it in April 1987;

'The amplifier runs warm, and improves as the circuitry attains working temperature. The sound has an effortlessness that is rare at this price level. One has the totally convincing impression of listening to music rather than to a hi-fi system'

There you go, it's the same old story... simple engineering that has the dignity to let the music speak for itself. Enjoy!

Thanks for that Morph, indeed, the 820 does move into a light and airy way after about 20-30 minutes, and yet, packing a punch that one wonders where it comes from . . . Take my hat off to the old chap, he new what he was about, God rest his soul . . . I have his entire 'Classical CD' collection in the loft to go through . . .

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

It's just that you appear to be using the PC drive as a CD player. This is not a good idea.

You will get much better results using the drive in the computer to rip the music files from your CDs to something like iTunes (in lossless) and then playing them as files through a DAC attached to your PC and hifi. Then they will rival a dedicated CD player for quality.

OK Chebby, I taken the point, I will give it a try . . . The DAC should be arriving tomorrow? I dont understand what 'iTunes lossless' is . . . sad :~ can you enlighten me? Is it like Spotify download?

How about simply transferring (ripping) off the CD to a folder on the hard drive . . . to simplistic? is there a 'loss' in the rip? or have I missed something entirely . . . ?

Sorry, my silver haired naivety is showing ain't it . . . :~

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

Thats why I asked the question, in my day, turntable, arm, cartridge was paramount . . . 'garbage in, garbage out' . . . not being to sure how digital sees information on a disk?? One has always been lead to believe, in the digital world, its either 'on or off', 'seen or not seen' . . . no grey areas? You are suggesting the transport mechanism has similar characteristics to an analogue turntable?? Perhaps the quality of the laser is more important? I have no idea, but my enquiring mind thinks :| . . . ?? I thought the same as 'The_Lhc', Computer transports are cheap and nasty but my ears tell me, cheap and nasty is producing some surprising sound . . . from the better cd's! through a scratch system 'perched' on a 34inch wide, 4ft high, stacking shelf . . . I hear it but, experience says it should not be so . . . ??? :~ If it dont improve when I get the room sorted . . . ??? what do I do then J) Negative thoughts, we dont like negative thinking 8) CJSF

It's just that you appear to be using the PC drive as a CD player. This is not a good idea.

You will get much better results using the drive in the computer to rip the music files from your CDs to something like iTunes (in lossless) and then playing them as files through a DAC attached to your PC and hifi. Then they will rival a dedicated CD player for quality.

Hi Chebby, had a dig, found the 'iTunes' site, will give it a try . . . very frustrating being 20 years out of touch sometimes :~ Thank you, CJSF