Audiophile Lossless storage for home HiFi - how?

[admin_exported]

I have a reasonable quality system (Arcam CD37, Linn Sondek LP12, AudioInnovations A1 integrated valve amp, Mission 752s), and enjoy warm, full-sounding music with a deep soundstage.

My 2-year old son keeps rummaging through my CD and vinyl collections, scratching discs and threatening to ruin everything (as kids can do!!).

So, I want to store all of my CD's onto a digital platform, in Lossless format, so I can listen to all those CDs, and be able to record vinyl to digital format. The iPod just doesnt cut it for quality sound.

I have thought about a NAS server, a Sonos, or an integrated ripper (Brennan JB7 or similar). Any advice gratefully appreciated!!

 

[matengawhat]

by an ipod dock with a digital out like the onkyo (£130) or wadia transports (£325) and a dac that you can connect your computer to then best of both worlds

 

[Anonymous]

The digital part will not make any difference to the sound; almost any system will transfer the digital signals unaltered (also an iPod, if you use a digital dock, like the ones from Onkyo or Wadia).

What's important, sound-wise, is the DAC that converts the digital signals to analog. With a valve amp you'll get all the colouring you want, so if you don't want to muddle the sound, you should choose a DAC that's as neutral as possible.

What matters on the digital side is storage security (backup) and interface. A NAS with RAID will be more secure than a single disc. Your choice of streaming system depends on whether you want the versatility and expandability of a computer based system, or prefer a dedicated music system.

If you choose a non-computer system, you must be aware that there might be software/file format related matching problems between streaming device and storage device. Therefor, you should choose the streaming system first, and then choose a storage system that fits.

 

[idc]

drchc:

So, I want to store all of my CD's onto a digital platform, in Lossless format, so I can listen to all those CDs, and be able to record vinyl to digital format. The iPod just doesnt cut it for quality sound.

I have thought about a NAS server, a Sonos, or an integrated ripper (Brennan JB7 or similar). Any advice gratefully appreciated!!

Whilst the ipod may not cut it for sound, itunes is an excelent music manager (digital platform) and with lossless files to a DAC to your amp, you will get excelent SQ. There are various USB turntables on the market to import your vinyl collection.

How do you want to physically set it all up? That has a major influence on what you buy.

 

[Anonymous]

Digitizing vinyl recordings will never be good. You'll copy all the noise and distortion of the mechanical devices along with the music.

If you want high quality digital copies, buy CDs or lossless files. If you want the equivalents of LPs without the noise and distortion, buy ACC files from the iTunes Store.

If you've got rare recordings not available in digital form, play your old LP's.

Anyway, I agree that iTunes is the best media player/management software. Just assure that all 'sound improvement' options are turned off, and the iTunes volume control is disabled when using external speakers, not to alter the original sound quality.

You can't play 24bit FLAC with iTunes, but there's no audible differences between this format and Apple Lossless. You'll need a third party software converter (like XLD on the Mac) though.

iTunes is also by far the most convenient way to rip CD's. The music is nicely stored in an Artist>Album>Song structure, with information, CD covers etc added from Internet databases.

 

[Anonymous]

What are the numbers of cd/lps you are thinking of?

The LPs are the difficult part, and mostly a separate issue. If you want quality there (so not a cheap usb turntable), you need an ADC, or a combined ADC/DAC. Plus maybe software to clean up the vinyl rips. It will be a very time consuming project.

For the remainder - many options. I prefer the computer based option, much more flexibility in tagging and searching. Apple/PC depending on what you already have or have experience with. If you have a computer you can start experimenting without any investment, to sat what you prefer.

 

[Anonymous]

I use Mac, and in fact have a spare new MacBook not being used, with 180Gb of music stored and indexed using iTunes on an external firewire drive. However I do not nececarily want to always have to have a computer screen next to my HiFi to control my music (and no remote!).

Would you propose using the Macbook to control an external NAS (eg Buffalo Terrastation) with all the music backed-up. What, then, does the DAC? I dont see the point of running the Macbook with the crappy internal DAC via the headphone output into my HiFi!

Or do I have to shell out for an AVA RS3 Media Server?

 

[Anonymous]

I have loads of music archived with iTunes (180Gb worth, although much in 128 AAC rather than Lossless).

Physically, I want to have it all set up with the main HiFi station, with amp, CD, LP and TV together in the living room (ie not broadcasting wirelessly from a remote source, hence not so keen on spending the money for a Sonos).

 

[matengawhat]

well thats a big reason why your music sounds weak - 128 is just not worth it - far to low quality - you can't polish a **** no matter what

i would suggest re uploading all your music to lossless and as above buy a dac that can be connected directly to the computer - for flexability i would also buy a digital dock - nice to have so you can just plug in your ipod and get the best from it

 

[Anonymous]

I had this problem when i wanted a good hifi... After days on this forum and many others, i decided to use an old laptop, saving all of my CD collection into lossless format on iTunes. My laptop is connected to a DAC Magic (Cambridge Audio) via the provided USB cable and the DAC is connected to my hifi via interconnects that you must already have for a CD player. When reading up on the debate of lossless vs CD players, it became apparent that for the 200 pounds the DAC Magic cost it was comparable to a £300-400 pound CD Player.

So taking everything i've said into consideration i wouldn't hesitate to go down the route I did, It is more versatile, future proof and portable than a CD player (Due to not having to take actual disks with you). IF you want the wireless ability of a laptop you can buy an airport express for around 80 pounds first hand and use this to stream your music in full quality via wireless, meaning you can be in the bath on your macbook but in full control of what your hifi plays in the other room.

 

[Anonymous]

NAS with raid is probably the safest for storage but you can get by with a PC and a good sound card.

Some years ago I copied all of our vinyl onto our PC as WAV files and backed them up. They were then burnt to CD to be able to use them in the car. (When CD multi-changers were all the rage.) The best way to do this is to use a line out from your pre-amp to your PC's line in and then use some decent software to clean up the sound files and make the recording back into tracks.

As old fashioned as it might sound Windows media player is not a bad thing to use to access your music collection. We still use it to stream music to our HiFi via the line out on the sound card. Of course you need a high quality sound card in the PC to make this work.

 

[manicm]

Fahnsen:

You can't play 24bit FLAC with iTunes, but there's no audible differences between this format and Apple Lossless. You'll need a third party software converter (like XLD on the Mac) though.

Oh yes there are differences I can tell you that - I've heard proper 24/96khz recordings.

 

[amcluesent]

> Any advice gratefully appreciated!!>

Naim HDX? Won't digitise your LPs but that's so tedious everyone gives up ater they've done three in 'realtime' and messed about splitting tracks and editing the meta-data.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

manicm:Fahnsen:

You can't play 24bit FLAC with iTunes, but there's no audible differences between this format and Apple Lossless. You'll need a third party software converter (like XLD on the Mac) though.

Oh yes there are differences I can tell you that - I've heard proper 24/96khz recordings.

I was just about to say the same and then saw that you beat me. Fahnsen's comment is completely wrong. I've listened to Eva Cassidy albums recently in WMA lossless (16bit) and then 24bit/96khz. The difference was completely obvious and I was happy with the 16bit version before.

 

[JamesPianoman]

Hi drchc. I'm transferring my CDs to lossless (FLAC) and storing them on a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo. It sounds like you could be thinking along these lines- you just need to work out how to access your digital music files then- Linn Sneaky?

That's a similar price to a 2-room Sonos bundle... the only reason to consider a Sonos would be if you wanted multi-room access and hi-fi sound quality in more than one room. A laptop or Squeezebox would be another way to access them in one room only. Sorry I can't help with recording vinyl suggestions.

I have a new baby daughter- I've ripped baby/children's music CDs onto the ReadyNAS (in MP3) and am accessing them via a portable Pure Evoke Flow radio- which we put down next to the baby and wirelessly stream her music to whichever room she's in- great if you need multi-room flexibility without hi-fi sound qual.

 

[PJPro]

I had a play with iTunes over Christmas and I wasn't impressed. I found it to be really inflexible.....and the front end was ugly. I prefer foobar2000.

 

[Anonymous]

JamesPianoman:
Hi drchc. I'm transferring my CDs to lossless (FLAC) and storing them on a Netgear ReadyNAS Duo. It sounds like you could be thinking along these lines- you just need to work out how to access your digital music files then- Linn Sneaky?

That's a similar price to a 2-room Sonos bundle... the only reason to consider a Sonos would be if you wanted multi-room access and hi-fi sound quality in more than one room. A laptop or Squeezebox would be another way to access them in one room only. Sorry I can't help with recording vinyl suggestions.

I have a new baby daughter- I've ripped baby/children's music CDs onto the ReadyNAS (in MP3) and am accessing them via a portable Pure Evoke Flow radio- which we put down next to the baby and wirelessly stream her music to whichever room she's in- great if you need multi-room flexibility without hi-fi sound qual.

I'm in the process of doing a similar exercise...ripping my CDs to my new Synology DS409. I'm not using iTunes, can't get into anything Apple branded! I use my xBox to stream video from the DS409, and my Yamaha Receiver can stream audio directly from the NAS (as well as internet radio). The xBox could do the audio as well, but if the amp can do it, I felt it best to use less devices. Video goes from the NAS to the xBox over my network and then HDMI to the Amp. Audio goes from the NAS to the Amp over the network. It could just as easily go from NAS to xBox on the network then HDMI to the Amp if your amp is networked.

Whilst my Amp doesn't support FLAC, there is a media server pre-installed from Synology on the NAS which converts to MP3 on the fly. There is also an iTunes server app installed on it (even though I don't use it) and you can download the Logitech Squeezebox Server as a supported app if you want to use Logitech. I've got it set up with 4 x 1.5Tb Low Power Seagate Barracuda Drives on a RAID 5 config, giving me around 4.3Tb useable space and I can also survive the loss of a single drive. As for quality of output, I think it sounds just like CD, but what do I know! I don't use any DACs, just getting the whole thing working first before tweaking quality.

Cost? I bought the chassis for around £325 and the drives were £75 each, so £625 all in. Dead easy to set up as well if you have ever messed about with a PC. Maybe slightly more difficult if you aren't very IT literate to be honest, you have to create a RAID volume then create users (like such as the Amp and xBox) and assign permissions. The management console is actually really straightforward if you know what you need to do, but the instructions don't go into quite as much depth as they could if you've never seen a management console in your life. That said, it is a really powerful unit and can do a hell of a lot more than just serve media to my xbox and Amp, you can run a website, email system, fileserver, FTP server as well as all the media stuff, and it all seems pretty straightforward.

 

[JamesPianoman]

Acciesboy:

Whilst my Amp doesn't support FLAC, there is a media server pre-installed from Synology on the NAS which converts to MP3 on the fly.

Interesting! I got a bit tripped up here- I ripped the first CD into FLAC then realised the PURE wouldn't play it (only MP3). I don't think my ReadyNAS will convert to MP3 on the fly and I'm not sure if that would impact the sound quality. So I'll rip FLAC losslessly on a trial CD for the naimUniti and then make a 2nd rip into MP3 for the PURE. Then I'll play both formats on the naim and judge the SQ before I've committed myself and ripped my entire collection.

Thanks for the update Acciesboy...hope this is useful to the OP.

 

[JamesPianoman]

Something else to share with you- B&W's site has a useful overview of how/why to rip into FLAC and recommended either EAC or dbpoweramp as the 2 leading software programmes to do this. I tried EAC first but it wouldn't bring in the album (metadata?) data ie track/album info via freedb.org. So I then downloaded dbpoweramp- this successfully captured all the album info but its only free for 21 days.

Sorry if this has been covered already in other threads. Looks like I'll have to read through a few other threads for naming/tagging conventions

Although the PURE interface seems quite easy to navigate by genre/artist/track etc and I hope the naim will be just as simple when it arrives.

 

[Anonymous]

drchc:
I have a reasonable quality system (Arcam CD37, Linn Sondek LP12, AudioInnovations A1 integrated valve amp, Mission 752s), and enjoy warm, full-sounding music with a deep soundstage.

My 2-year old son keeps rummaging through my CD and vinyl collections, scratching discs and threatening to ruin everything (as kids can do!!).

So, I want to store all of my CD's onto a digital platform, in Lossless format, so I can listen to all those CDs, and be able to record vinyl to digital format. The iPod just doesnt cut it for quality sound.

I have thought about a NAS server, a Sonos, or an integrated ripper (Brennan JB7 or similar). Any advice gratefully appreciated!!

drchc:
I use Mac, and in fact have a spare new MacBook not being used, with 180Gb of music stored and indexed using iTunes on an external firewire drive. However I do not nececarily want to always have to have a computer screen next to my HiFi to control my music (and no remote!).

Would you propose using the Macbook to control an external NAS (eg Buffalo Terrastation) with all the music backed-up. What, then, does the DAC? I dont see the point of running the Macbook with the crappy internal DAC via the headphone output into my HiFi!

Or do I have to shell out for an AVA RS3 Media Server?

I have loads of music archived with iTunes (180Gb worth, although much in 128 AAC rather than Lossless).

Physically, I want to have it all set up with the main HiFi station, with amp, CD, LP and TV together in the living room (ie not broadcasting wirelessly from a remote source, hence not so keen on spending the money for a Sonos).

I think there are a number of issues being confused here. First there is a question of how to rip your CD's/LP's, in what format, and where to store them. Then there is the playback environment. Whereas most people combine these two thins into one it is not a good idea. You want to rip your music and store it in a safe place so that you don't have to rip it again. You could rip to a NAS drive with 2 mirrored disks so that if one fails you still have the other. Even better would be two buy two separate external disks and store them in separate locations such that you have extra protection against bugluary or fire etc. As these are just for storage the only thing that matters is their safty.

I would suggest ripping your CD's and encoding them into different formats based on the playback environment(s) you plan to use. For example, I use dbpoweramp to rip to FLAC which I then use as my master backup. But during the ripping process dbpoweramp also encodes to other formats that I with to use in my playback environments. So for example, I encode to MP3 192k, MP3 320k, another FLAC copy and lastly a WAV copy. The MP3 192k albums are for my small Sony MP3 and iPod Touch players, whilst the FLAC is for my hifi's. The WAV is in case I need to use Apple with the hifi at some point.

For your playback environment I would suggest you modify my ripping method to add an Apple Lossless codec as well or instead of one of the one's I'm using. I'd still use FLAC for your "Archive" copy as it is an open standard.

Then for playback I'd connect your macbook to your hifi and use an iPod Touch to control iTunes playback. Personally I don't like iTunes for either ripping or playback but it does have the advantage of being controllable via Apples Remote application on the iPod Touch. I would definitely not use it for ripping though. I think you can also control Mediamonkey via an iPod Touch too although I don't know if it displays the albums and tracks on the Touch in the way the Apple solution does.

Only after you've listened to your Macbook playing back via your hifi would I consider introducing a DAC. There are so many to choose from but I really like the Firestone Fubar III which gives you a really nice headphone amp too (although you can buy it without).

It is perfectly possible to play back via a networked NAS but if that is both your archive and playback environment you will loose it all if someone steals it etc.