Audiolab 8200cd OR M-DAC & cd transport??

[cannibal_ox77]

Greetings all & happy new year. I've caught the upgrade bug and I'm looking for a major lift in performance for CD playback over my current setup. If my Marantz UD5007 had any digital outputs other than HDMI it would be an easy choice just to get the best DAC within budget and carry on using it.

Does anyone know if a standalone Audiolab M-DAC (£600) & a dedicated cd transport like the Cyrus or Musical Fidelity's M1CDT (£650/£600) would significantly outperform the Audiolab 8200CD particularly for CD playback but also as a DAC for other sources (e.g. mine would be internet radio & streamed ALAC/AAC via the Marantz NA7004)?? Would the extra £500 or so be well spent?

If I bought a dedicated transport I'd use the NA7004 as a DAC for now and add the dedicated DAC a bit further down the line, so budget isn't really an issue. At around £700 however the 8200CD sounds hard to resist, unless there would be a significant improvement with a dedicated CD transport and the standalone DAC.

I was considering partnering my Pearl Lite amp with the matching Pearl Lite CD player and it would be nice, but as it shares the same DAC as the NA7004 I can't see this being as cost effective an upgrade - I don't notice much difference between cd playback from my Marantz UD5007 and streamed lossless files via the NA7004. CD has the edge if anything but there's not a lot in it. I expect from everything I've read that the Audiolab DAC is superior (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anyone raving about using the Pearl Lite as a DAC in the way they do the Audiolab). And as I'll probably keep the UD5007 for Blu-ray I have no need for the Pearl Lite's SACD capability

I'm looking for improvement all round obviously but in particular in bass definition, mid range clarity, detail & timing (Qualities associated with Cyrus?)

Grateful for any opinions or suggested alternatives.

Thanks

 

[bebelacus]

i have the 8200cdq and it is fantastic for me. it is the same 8200cd player but with a buil in preamp. that will give you many options to play with and keeping you happy for a long while finding new things. you can use its preamp and use your integrated amp as a power amp. at the same time the cd or the dac can be used. or you can disable the preamp aand use it as a player-dac only. you can also connect your other cd player to it and use it in either mode (preamp-no preamp etc.).

i suggest going extra distance an buy the 8200cdq the difference is so small to the 8200cd but it gives you a brilliant tool and ifinite options to play with.

as a cd player is top class. as a dac, fantastic plus a very, very good pre-amp. oh, it had headphone connection on its front . headphones are driven by its preamp which, by the way, works in class A. you can connect your smart tv, pc and any other device.

i think it is a landmark product and i suggest checking some of the reviews of 8200cdq. those guys explain better than me.

anyway, i am very, very happy with it

 

[bebelacus]

i have the 8200cdq and it is fantastic for me. it is the same 8200cd player but with a buil in preamp. that will give you many options to play with and keeping you happy for a long while finding new things. you can use its preamp and use your integrated amp as a power amp. at the same time the cd or the dac can be used. or you can disable the preamp aand use it as a player-dac only. you can also connect your other cd player to it and use it in either mode (preamp-no preamp etc.).

i suggest going extra distance an buy the 8200cdq the difference is so small to the 8200cd but it gives you a brilliant tool and ifinite options to play with.

as a cd player is top class. as a dac, fantastic plus a very, very good pre-amp. oh, it had headphone connection on its front . headphones are driven by its preamp which, by the way, works in class A. you can connect your smart tv, pc and any other device.

i think it is a landmark product and i suggest checking some of the reviews of 8200cdq. those guys explain better than me.

anyway, i am very, very happy with it

 

[plasterman]

I have an M-dac paired with an 8200p power amp and a Marantz cd 6004 its a good combination to my ears anyway. The designer of the M-dac and cdq has said that he prefers the M-dac with a transport rather than the cdq on its own.

 

[adamrobertshaw]

I have the Cyrus CD transport and it is by far my best source. I listen to it via the QX DAC card in an integrated Cyrus amp.

I also have the 8200CD and listened to the Cyrus CD transport via a Coax input on the 8200CD into the analogue input on the Cyrus amp. It was an improvement.

The transport + 8200CD sounded more detailed than playing the same CD purely through the 8200CD.

So to my mind this proved that the Cyrus transport was able to read the CD better than the 8200CD CD player. Further revelation was that the ESS Sabre DAC in the 8200CD was better than the DAC in my Cyrus amp.

So I would go down the route of a CD transport and M-DAC (or other quality DAC).

Also the NAD M51 DAC can take a HDMI input from your Marantz UD5007. But it's expensive.

 

[plasterman]

From the horses mouth(John westlake designer of the mdac, cdq and cd).

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=122621

 

[cannibal_ox77]

Apologies for the delay all, Travelled back from Spain last night and my ears still haven't fully popped and feel blocked from the pressure of the flight, but it's great to be home in the company of some quality music after 10 days without it however bad my ears feel! :rockout:

Thanks all for your replies, there's certainly a lot to think about here and what I've read elsewhere. I'll take my time weighing up the options and will have to demo the 8200CD against the M-DAC + transport to see if the latter provides results worthy of the extra outlay although a lot of what I've read confirms this would be superior. At the same time I've been looking around various forum posts on this and there's also a lot of opinion that suggests the transport is less important, and any transport will do the same job and it's the DAC that makes the difference. Not sure I agree with that but maybe this is dependent on the quality of the DAC itself in how revealing it is.

I'm attracted to the Cyrus transport based on reviews describing its excellent detail retrieval and maybe the qualities which many seem to consider 'harsh' would be balanced out nicely by the Pearl Lite. I think this is worth a try particularly based on what you guys/John Westlake are saying, but from all I've read since posting the original query it feels like the 8200CD would provide better value and even more so, the 8200CDQ.

I know I'd be more that satisfied with the 8200CD from what I've heard of it and read. I just read somewhere that the M-DAC as a standalone unit was an improvement over the DAC found in the CD units, or at least produced better results. If this difference isn't significant though I'd prefer the CD player at the price.

Regarding the 8200CDQ, It certainly looks superbly flexible and I'd be interested to hear how it partners the Pearl Lite as power amp, but mine's doing that duty for the AV receiver in my living room for a while yet at least so I'd use it in player mode only if I went down that route. I'm happy with the Pearl Lite and RS6 combo anyway although it has made me look into Niles speaker switchers...It would give me more options in future though, as I do plan to separate my current do-it-all system into 2 rooms when we move house and the idea of just needing to add a power amp and speakers to have a quality 2nd system is very appealing.

If I shift a bit of gear I could raise enough to go the extra for the CDQ! Got a Technics SL1210Mk2 in fantastic condition to sell. I was considering getting back into vinyl but I had a listen to it recently hooked up to my main system and it might need a new stylus, but in direct comparison using the records that I also own on CD (e.g. Boards of Canada, Four Tet, Cinematic Orchestra), the vinyl got nowhere near the sound quality of the CD/lossless versions from my digital sources, so I've decided to part company with it as it hardly gets any use these days. Plus with 2 young kids running around, probably not a good idea investing in a decent new vinyl player. Digital is going to be my only way forward now!

 

[busb]

I agree with the designer - heard an 8200CD into an audiolab integrated then with the digital coax output of the CDP driving an M-DAC - no contest, the M-DAC sounded much better. Only you can decide if the added expense is worth it.

 

[cannibal_ox77]

After much thinking and hearing I decided to opt for the 8200CDQ, and I don't regret it! I don't doubt the Cyrus + M-DAC would have the edge sonically but this solution worked better for me at £650! (ex-display). I'll provide more detail on what I think of it after a few more days at least, so far I've got through a stack of CDs and haven't even messed about with the digital filters (opting for the one everyone seems to recommend, Optimal Transient XD) , let alone tried it analogue pre-amp mode (or disabled the pre-amp all together).

Everything I've fed into it so far has ranged from pleasing to awesome - I've got Ernest Ranglin's 'Below the Bassline' LP on in the background and I can't stop moving to it! Bass lines are so damn tight and his guitar playing is brought to life through so much more texture than I've heard before, especially during his rapid-fire picks and slides up & down the neck on 'Surfin', it's like he's in the room. Listened to some Animal Collective tracks from Merriweather Post Pavillion before that and I've never heard them sound so...what's the word?..."organised".

Had a quick listen to some internet radio from my NA7004 via coax cable into the CDQ but not enough to appreciate the difference it brings (mainly because of unfamiliar tracks playing). The NA7004 has a decent DAC so I'm not sure if I should expect much improvement. Haven't heard any streamed lossless files from this route yet either.

My problem - although a positive one - is there's a LOT more bass than my previous sources pushed out. I've had to move my RS6's out a little further from the wall and now the room feels too small! Although its a decent 3.5m x 8.3m, the speakers face across the 3.5m and I feel too close in my listening position. Part of this may be that I'm so used to the smoothness of the Marantz sound and the Audiolab has added a sharpness and brought the soundstage out further. That's a positive thing, I just feel like I could do with a couple of extra feet further back, but I'll try toeing the speakers in a bit more and see if that helps.

I commented in another thread some time back that my speaker positioning in relation to the back wall didn't really have a major effect. I didn't realise how bass-shy my previous source was! I understand more why the RS6 was said to be fussy about placement. My room acoustics aren't perfect in any case & very reflective (hard floor, no rugs, big square coffee table bang in the middle of the soundstage, no curtains) so I know there's plenty of room for improvement there.

Anyway, so far so brilliant - the Audiolab & Marantz combo is certainly working well for me. The Audiolab has improved my system in the areas I hoped it would - clarity, bass (quality & quantity), realism and generally more upfront and exciting without being fatiguing in the slightest.