Atmos speakers

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These may be dumb questions, but just wondered about Atmos speakers...

1. Can they be any size? For example, I have floorstanders, rated at 200W. If I plumb some satellite speakers in for the atmos channels, what rating do they have to be - is it configurable, or if I'm using a 165W Amp - would they need a 200W rating as well?

2. Just how high up the wall / near the ceiling do they need to be, or do they have to be in the ceiling? (I'm assuming separate atmos speakers, rather than dedicated speakers, with upfiring atmos built in). could you put sats high on the wall, or do they need to actually be "in the ceiling"?

 

[The_Lhc]

If you're not going to use up-firing speakers then, yes, they really do need to be in the ceiling, there was a lot of guff on here about it not very long ago, you'll get the answers you need with a quick look around (take the "forum" bit out of the google search though, WHF had their own guide to Atmos as well).

 

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If you're not going to use up-firing speakers then, yes, they really do need to be in the ceiling, there was a lot of guff on here about it not very long ago, you'll get the answers you need with a quick look around (take the "forum" bit out of the google search though, WHF had their own guide to Atmos as well).

I know, I read that. I was just wondering, given that the dedicated atmos speakers combine normal speaker with an upfiring atmos one, whether you could:

1. Put a satellite pointing upwards on top of a floorstander

2. Put a satellite on a wall pointing upwards, to reflect off the ceiling

To get the same effect?

 

[The_Lhc]

Probably not, the separate upfiring speakers that sit on top of the fronts appear to be specifically for that purpose, they don't fire straight up, but at an angle. I doubt trying to bodge it with non-Atmos speakers is going to work particularly well.

 

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Thanks The_Lhc - I was hoping that wasn't the case, but sort of feared it might be. Not sure that I can really cut holes in the ceiling and re-decorate just now. (Especially as only finished getting the living room decorated two months ago.) Also, would prefer not to splash out for some in-ceiling speakers, or replacement front and surround speakers.

Hmm. Need to think about this some more.

 

[simonlewis]

scene have you seen this from richer sounds ?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/onkyo/skh410/onky-skh410#inline

 

[bigboss]

This article may be of interest to you.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker

 

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scene have you seen this from richer sounds ?

http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/onkyo/skh410/onky-skh410#inline

Thanks - will keep those in mind if I decide to go for a 5.1.4 set up.

 

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This article may be of interest to you.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/dolby-atmos-elevation-speaker

That was really informative - thanks bb. So you're going full fat 7.1.4 - is that with ceiling speakers or up-firers?

Though... having gone to the site, I read the interview on Auro 3D - which was also very interesting. And another thing that attracted me to the Marantz, the ability to choose between the two formats, hedging my bets...

 

[bigboss]

Yes, I'm going for a 7.1.4 speaker system with Monitor Audio WT280-IDC in-wall speakers for fronts and centre, WT265 for side and rear surrounds and 4 CT265 ceiling speakers for Atmos.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Question is, can I stick these on the ceiling?
I have a vaulted ceiling so the natural angle of these would in effect, I hope, fire the sound pretty much down.
I don't want the faff of actual in ceiling speakers.
I already have wiring in my ceiling.

 

[The_Lhc]

Question is, can I stick these on the ceiling? I have a vaulted ceiling so the natural angle of these would in effect, I hope, fire the sound pretty much down. I don't want the faff of actual in ceiling speakers. I already have wiring in my ceiling.

Stick what on your ceiling exactly? In-ceiling speakers are designed for exactly that, going IN the ceiling, they won't work properly if they're external to the ceiling.

 

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Question is, can I stick these on the ceiling? I have a vaulted ceiling so the natural angle of these would in effect, I hope, fire the sound pretty much down. I don't want the faff of actual in ceiling speakers. I already have wiring in my ceiling.

Stick what on your ceiling exactly? In-ceiling speakers are designed for exactly that, going IN the ceiling, they won't work properly if they're external to the ceiling.

Agreed. if you can get some flattish satellites these could be "stuck" on your ceiling - but mounting them horizontally could be interesting, as most satellites are designed to be hung vertically...

 

[The_Lhc]

Question is, can I stick these on the ceiling? I have a vaulted ceiling so the natural angle of these would in effect, I hope, fire the sound pretty much down. I don't want the faff of actual in ceiling speakers. I already have wiring in my ceiling.

Stick what on your ceiling exactly? In-ceiling speakers are designed for exactly that, going IN the ceiling, they won't work properly if they're external to the ceiling.

Agreed. if you can get some flattish satellites these could be "stuck" on your ceiling - but mounting them horizontally could be interesting, as most satellites are designed to be hung vertically...

Yeah, the KEF T-series might work, although as you say not sure how the mounting works on those. Don't know which way round you'd orient them either, thinking about it, along the ceiling or across it?

 

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Yes the KEF-T was what I had in mind and why I couldn't work out how you'd mount it. Though I suppose you could use one of those bracket things designed for angle mounting small bookshelf style (i.e. cuboid) speakers...

As for which way round - yup that could be an issue - I think concentric (circular) speakers are recommended for DIY atmos speakers.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I was on about these. Their weird shape would work well on a vaulted ceiling.
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/onkyo/skh410/onky-skh410#inline

 

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I was on about these. Their weird shape would work well on a vaulted ceiling. http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-speakers/onkyo/skh410/onk...

I think those are designed to fire upwards and reflect off the ceiling. If ceiling mounted, I'm not sure how well they'd project sound downwards (i.e. the spread - if that makes sense). The Onkyo website says:

"The handsome black cabinets contain a Dolby Atmos-certified special network that allows the angled full-range driver to beam object-oriented sounds—such as birdcalls or an aircraft—off your ceiling and into your ears."

So if you're not beaming them off the ceiling, not sure if they'd work.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thought about these and they are not really atmos speakers are they? All they do is project your front channels up to ceiling.
There's no way of them only projecting the ceiling channels upwards.
But of a con unless wired to an atmos receiver and ceiling channel output.

 

[The_Lhc]

Thought about these and they are not really atmos speakers are they? All they do is project your front channels up to ceiling. There's no way of them only projecting the ceiling channels upwards. But of a con unless wired to an atmos receiver and ceiling channel output.

Yes, that's exactly what you do, wire them to the Atmos channel outputs on a suitably equipped amp, same as KEFs offerings, they are NOT wired to the front channel outputs.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Have I misread their purpose from the richer sounds website???
Adding Dolby Atmos to your existing system is easier than you might think. With a Dolby Atmos equipped AV receiver you can use your existing 5.1 speaker set-up. Then simply add these speakers to the front channel left and right. They can be placed either on top of your existing front speakers or mounted on the wall just above. Once in place, the height of the soundstage grows hugely, with effects such as falling rain and helicopters flying overhead given incredible realism.

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Going back to earlier point, if they project up and reflect off ceiling, why can't I just put them on ceiling and point them down?

 

[The_Lhc]

Have I misread their purpose from the richer sounds website??? Adding Dolby Atmos to your existing system is easier than you might think. With a Dolby Atmos equipped AV receiver you can use your existing 5.1 speaker set-up. Then simply add these speakers to the front channel left and right. They can be placed either on top of your existing front speakers or mounted on the wall just above. Once in place, the height of the soundstage grows hugely, with effects such as falling rain and helicopters flying overhead given incredible realism.

It's not the clearest explanation to be fair but wherever you stick them they MUST be plugged into the dedicated Atmos channels, NOT the front L&R channels. RS do at least make the point that you need an Atmos equipped AV receiver.

 

[The_Lhc]

Going back to earlier point, if they project up and reflect off ceiling, why can't I just put them on ceiling and point them down?

The only reason I can think of is that you won't get the same level of dispersion, however I believe in an Atmos AV receiver you have to specify whether the speakers are ceiling mounted or up-firing reflectors, so presumably the Atmos DSP takes that into account.

The only other point is that those speakers are angled, so mounting them on the ceiling would mean they weren't firing straight downwards like they're supposed to. Whether that would make much difference is anybody's guess.

 

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Going back to earlier point, if they project up and reflect off ceiling, why can't I just put them on ceiling and point them down?

The only reason I can think of is that you won't get the same level of dispersion, however I believe in an Atmos AV receiver you have to specify whether the speakers are ceiling mounted or up-firing reflectors, so presumably the Atmos DSP takes that into account.

The only other point is that those speakers are angled, so mounting them on the ceiling would mean they weren't firing straight downwards like they're supposed to. Whether that would make much difference is anybody's guess.

This is the sort of thing you need some sort of reputable magazine to test - different kinds of atmos speakers:
- separate atmos upfirers (reflecting off ceiling)

- speakers with built-in atmos upfirers

- downward firers (in ceiling)

- downward atmos firers (on ceiling - if they exist)

- DIY upfirers

- DIY downfirers (maybe)

HINT...

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Thanks for informative responses.

Just a little point. I have vaulted ceiling, so extra height afforded by that may solve dispersion issue, and also being vaulted, the weird angle of these speakers are what attracted me to them in the first place. It means when I mount them their inherent angle will compensate for the angle of my ceiling.
Also, I have spotlights so putting in in-ceiling speakers will, to my mind,look worse and is more permanent than using ON-ceiling speakers (the Onkyo are relatively small).