Apple TV vs Sonos?

[roger06]

Hi

My adventures with streaming audio seem to be leading to a somewhat inevitable conclusion that a Sonos is the next step.

However, I'm really confused what they are - do they have amps? DACs? or are they just streaming devices?

What would one give me over my Apple TV (2 gen) ? (as far as audio goes - I know Sonos doesn't do the video, photo, YouTube stuff).

 

[The_Lhc]

It's pretty simple, the zp90 doesn't have an amp and plugs into an amp or dac (all zoneplayers have dacs in them), the zp120 has an amp in it and just requires speakers, the S5 has the speakers built-in but other than that they function in the same way. Check out the products page on sonos.com. What sonos does better than anything else is seamless multi-room audio, up to 32 zones, either all playing different tunes or all perfectly synced (or any combination between the two). The sync is so good that two S5s can be grouped together to perform as a left and right stereo pair, wirelessly.

One question though, if you don't know what sonos is, why do you think it's an inevitable next step?

 

[Dan Turner]

In a nutshell, it's a multi-room wireless audio streaming system. There are zone-players with no amps (digital or analogue output), with amps (just add speakers) and all-in-ones. You have to link one of them (or a separate 'zone-bridge') to your router and then that creates the Sonos wireless network which all the others connect to. Because it uses it's own wireless network it doesn't share bandwidth with your existing wireless network, it automatically finds the least congested channel to use, and all your zoneplayers act as both receiver and sender creating a 'mesh', it's a lot more robust than other systems which use your existing wireless network.

There are various control options - the dedicated CR200 controller is great, but pricey. Free options using PC or Mac based applications or apps for ipod, itouch, ipad or android are all great and help to keep costs down.

For storage it's pretty flexible - basically you can point it to music stored anywhere on your network - it indexes it in a few mins and it's seamless from thereon out. Using a NAS is definitely the most convenient option so you don't have to have your computer on all the time.

Various on-line music services are integrated into the control interface - internet radio, spotify, napster, last FM...there are other

I went from airport express-based streaming to Sonos - believe me for 1 zone or several you won't regret it.

Main limitation are that it is audio only and limited to 16 bit 48khz material.

Hope that helps.

 

[roger06]

Thanks guys - that's really useful.

So the ZP90 is what I'd need as a direct replacement for the Apple TV ? If I kept the Apple TV does it have a coax out so I could have it and my Apple TV plugged into my rDAC?

Does it have to use wireless as I have ethernet at my hi fi.

I have no immediate use for multi room (mainly due to two young children) but I can see why this would be good...

Thanks again.

 

[Dan Turner]

It has coax and optical outputs and you can connect it via ethernet if you want to (If it was your only one then you'd have to). I started off using a ZP90 just as a source in my lounge - however once you get one then the other zones start to beckon.......

 

[roger06]

Ok have checked the specs and it does have coax out and ethernet.

I guess it would improve sound quality as won't resample to 48hz as the ATV does...

Might see if I can get one on eB@y (it is my birthday next month!)

 

[The_Lhc]

Yes it has coax and if you only have one zp it MUST be wired to your network.

 

[roger06]

Yes it has coax and if you only have one zp it MUST be wired to your network.

Yes, even I get the logic in that!

 

[roger06]

however once you get one then the other zones start to beckon.......

Well I'd be tempted to put one in the kitchen.

 

[Anonymous]

Get a S5 for the kitchen. You know it makes sense. The sound quality from them is very good. Much better than I expected.

 

[Paulq]

Hi Dan

Am interested to learn a bit more about your views of Sonos v Airport Express. I currently stream from my iMac>itunes (Airfoil for Spotify)>Airport Express>Linn Classik (optical). I have found the Airport Express to be a bit hit and miss really, occasionally dropping out but suspect this may be my router.

Did you notice a discernable fifference in quality using Sonos?

Also, can you clear something up for me?

I am considering using NAS rather than the iMac so, assuming I used this with Sonos, would my setup look like:

1. Nas (containing music), connected to router.

2. Zonebridge connected to router

3. Sonos connecxted to Linn Classik

4. Controlled using app on iPhone (or iMac??). Not sure about this bit.

Assuming that's correct does the NAS connected t the router enable me to 'see' the music files contained on it wirelessly? I.e does it appear as another drive, albeit wirelessly, on my iMac and if so can I just add/delete/backup as I would with any other HDD? So I could transfer the music sitting on my iMac today to the NAS?

Sorry for all the questions - just spotted your familiarity with current setup and what you have now so hope you don't mind.

Paul

 

[Dan Turner]

Hi Paul,

I had terrible problems with the airport express dropping out. It started off as wireless interference which after loads of tinkering I managed to reduce quite a bit, only to find that the AE and my DAC didn't really get along and I used to get 'glitches' a few seconds after starting the playback caused by the AE clocking being sloppy and the DAC struggling to stay in sync with it - I figured this out after a bit of googling.

I doubt it's your router at fault, the issue is most likely to be either interference impacting your wireless bandwidth and causing drop-outs or an issue with the AE and your DAC not staying in sync (AE's fault) - or both like me!

Anyway when I switched to Sonos I found that the sound quality was definitely better than it was with airport express, and having expanded to 3 zones I can say that the Sonos wireless mesh network is very robust; I don't think I've had any wireless drop outs at all.

The way you're thinking of connecting it up and controlling it is exactly right. In terms of how the NAS 'presents' on your iMac, it will appear as a device under the 'shared' section in Finder, and yes you can view and maintain files on it just like any other drive. You'll need to add it to the 'login items' under 'accounts' in system preferences so that your mac automatically connects to it every time you switch the Mac on.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,

Dan

 

[Paulq]

Thanks Dan that's a great help - I plan to buy all the components over the next couple of months. Just a further question - do you use a separate DAC as well? I feel that the above setup will probably not necessitate one but never say never......

Thanks again

Paul

 

[Dan Turner]

Hi Paul - I connect the ZP90 via coax and use the DAC built in to my Naim SuperNait

 

[Paulq]

I went from airport express-based streaming to Sonos - believe me for 1 zone or several you won't regret it.

Hi Dan

At the moment I use Airport Express to stream music on my NAS using iTunes through to my hi-fi. I only have requirement to listen in one room so, for the purposes of this, I have to say that the AE does the job pretty flawlessly really. I use it with Spotify sometimes and ,despite very occasional dropouts, the results are similar.

Having had a similar experience I just wondered, from your quote, what other benefits you consider the Sonos to have over the AE for single room usage? Understand that it means you don't need a PC on and that you can use the remote apps but there's a pretty good Android remote app for iTunes which does a great job really.

Is there discernable difference in sound quality or lesser drop out rates in your experience? Would be happy to go ahead and buy the Sonos kit as long as it gives me something extra that's worth the additional, significant, outlay.

Cheers

Paul

 

[moosey]

hi

once i started with sonos attached to my av setup, and then seperate dining room hifi, I then became obsessed with possibilities of making every room musical. cost has hampered my desire for total home domination, but the plan is there,

adv; no streaming drop outs (sonos uses own 'wifi network'

; no obvious effect on surfing o laptop, whilst streaming is happening

; i ripped 7000 tracks and have had 3 corrut files that crashed the system. re-ripping thee 3 tracks solved the problem.

; good sound through av system using optical

;excellent sound through hifi using optical to firestone dac

it's so simple. really is plugnplay

 

[roger06]

Well how's this for annoying. Last weekend the Mrs ran the car into the back of someone. Not wanting to waste life with hassle and insurance etc I'll simply pay for the guy's damage.

£288. Now that would have bought a Sonos ZP 90! Oh well... that's life!

 

[The_Lhc]

£288? What does he need a new number plate? Seriously, for a rear end shunt £288 amounts to not much more than having a quick look and saying "Nah, it's fine mate...".

Unless of course the garage is, you know, really honest and only fixing what's actually wrong but what are the chances of that?

 

[roger06]

Yeah I totally agree. However, nice old chap, he pulled out on a busy roundabout then stopped. So could argue 50 / 50 at a push. But time is money and I just want to get it all sorted and out the way with no hassle...

 

[The_Lhc]

Yeah I totally agree. However, nice old chap, he pulled out on a busy roundabout then stopped. So could argue 50 / 50 at a push.

Nah, I tried that once, girl in front of me pulled out onto an empty roundabout and stopped, I still had to cough up the lot. Learned that lesson though, I think everyone does it at least once!

But time is money and I just want to get it all sorted and out the way with no hassle...

Be interested to know exactly what they're doing for that little money though.

 

[John Duncan]

T-Cutting the bumper I expect...

 

[Dan Turner]

Hi Dan

Am interested to learn a bit more about your views of Sonos v Airport Express. I currently stream from my iMac>itunes (Airfoil for Spotify)>Airport Express>Linn Classik (optical). I have found the Airport Express to be a bit hit and miss really, occasionally dropping out but suspect this may be my router.

Did you notice a discernable fifference in quality using Sonos?

Also, can you clear something up for me?

I am considering using NAS rather than the iMac so, assuming I used this with Sonos, would my setup look like:

1. Nas (containing music), connected to router.

2. Zonebridge connected to router

3. Sonos connecxted to Linn Classik

4. Controlled using app on iPhone (or iMac??). Not sure about this bit.

Assuming that's correct does the NAS connected t the router enable me to 'see' the music files contained on it wirelessly? I.e does it appear as another drive, albeit wirelessly, on my iMac and if so can I just add/delete/backup as I would with any other HDD? So I could transfer the music sitting on my iMac today to the NAS?

Sorry for all the questions - just spotted your familiarity with current setup and what you have now so hope you don't mind.

Paul

Sorry I've taken so long to reply. I think that the sound quality is better on the Sonos, but I have to admit I've not done any a/b comparisons.

The iTunes interface is good, but the Sonos one is better in my opinion, I suffered terribly with drop-outs using the AE, but the Sonos has never suffered them, and using the NAS and not needing the computer on is also a big advantage. Overall Sonos is just the more sorted solution for one zone, and just a total no brainer for more than one.

How you're thinking it would be set-up is perfect, and yes when the NAS has been mounted it will appear and you can interact with it on your Mac like any other drive. In order to keep it mounted you might need to add it to the start-up items against your user profile on the Mac - look at WHF's video tutorial on transferring your itunes library to a NAS.

Good luck!

Dan

 

[pwiles1968]

I am running a Gen1 hacked ATV on the main system with and external HDD attached, can store my music there so no need for the PC to be on, have an airport express in the back room hooked up to an old AV amp so that runs the back room and kitchen, dining room has an airplay enabled Marantz and I even have an old Dennon micro hooked up to the PC out for speakers in the garden, found the Apple stuff needs to be on Ethernet cables wireless gets dropouts, works really well for what in need.