Apex MA vs CM8 the results!

[Anonymous]

I should clarify I am in Singapore and there is only one Monitor Audio Dealer in the whole country so I cannot go anywhere else, his price though 2400pds for the Apex Package is reasonable as far as I can tell. The Kef setup was a very similar price so to move up to the bigger q's will cost more.

 

[duaplex]

I think its a tad overpriced (not by much) however, you are paying for the style more than anything. I would consider the RX range. But do demo them if you can they are excellent and if reviews are your thing on WHF then the RX6 is rated the top traditional package. Especially since you have a big room that is open plan.

But as i said, dont go by reviews soley, of course take them into account, but let your ears judge.

 

[ric71]

Give the Apex a try.

As duaplex said that it was just his preference for floor standers.

I spent months listening to speakers and have owned some big active floorstanding speakers in the past so I do know there are differences.

I chose not to go for floor standing/stand mount as the Apex do everything I require of a set of speakers and some. They are superb with movies but more importantly they do music equaly well.

I like the detail a sub sat sytem gives and with the sub set up correctly or even better 2 subs you lose nothing.

I use an MJ sub as opposed to a MA sub as I prefer it for music.

I will be investing about £2K at the end of the summer in a new receiver as I feel the Apex need better than I have to get the best out of them.

If music is not a priority look at an MK system as well,excellent packages.

Do demo some floor standers as well if you are unsure about the sub sat route.

Look at the Apex owners club thread in the forums to see other peoples experiences.

It will be down to your preference and taste.

Enjoy choosing

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for sharing your experience duaplex. I'm actually looking to upgrade the MT-30 and the CM8 system and the Apex were my top two choices. Can you please let me know what were the other speakers in the CM system? CMC and CM1s? I've been told elsewhere that the Apex will be a solid improvement over the MT-30 but the CM8 system will offer dramatic improvement. Problem is I can't audition them in a satisfactory manner before buying. And will the CM system be okay in a small/medium size room (4,5m x 3,5m) driven by the Yamaha RX-V1800?

 

[CnoEvil]

This is interesting. When I calibrated my system it sets the Apex Sats to large. I have always found that setting your speakers to small and setting the crossovers for each speaker works so much better. My floorstanders are set to small as well. If the system was just recalibrated by the receiver and left, I would suggest is the reason for the bad performance.

Sub/sats are designed to work as small speakers. Setting them to large is just asking them to do stuff they're not capable of doing.

You're the same as myself Gerrard - because I prefer sub/sats for movies, I find hi-fi speakers (no matter how large they are), sound better to me when set to small, as this makes them perform more like a sub/sat package, and helps with integrating the (usually) different sized speakers that usually go to make up these types of packages.

The Arcam AVR brocure recommends settng the speakers to "small", unless they are full range (20hz to 20khz). This rules out almost everybody but the lucky few.

Despite this, I prefer the presentation with my floorstanders set to large....as David has said, it's a personal thing.

 

[duaplex]

Certainly is indeed, I know now that i prefer floorstanders.

Yes I should ahve made it clear, its the CM8's at the front, CM1's for the rear, CMC center and PV1 sub.... I would highly recommened the test, they are equisite and they pick up all details in the film. If music is your game then something like the Q900 is probably better.

Yes your room size is fine, remember its not about the loudness the speaker can bring, its about how well it sounds at a lower volume in any given room. That is the true test of a speaker 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

Certainly is indeed, I know now that i prefer floorstanders.

Yes I should ahve made it clear, its the CM8's at the front, CM1's for the rear, CMC center and PV1 sub.... I would highly recommened the test, they are equisite and they pick up all details in the film. If music is your game then something like the Q900 is probably better.

Yes your room size is fine, remember its not about the loudness the speaker can bring, its about how well it sounds at a lower volume in any given room. That is the true test of a speaker 🙂

No this is going to be used almost exclusively for movies so I guess it's the CM then.

Where yould you crossover to the sub? 80hz? And would you biwire the CM8s?

 

[duaplex]

Yes PV1 crossover to 80hz. Biwire the center speaker for better clarity of sound (this is debated, so expect a storm now that i said that bit, some say it matters not) but more importantly and what you want to do is Biamp the front two speakers this makes a huge difference and gives more juice to them!

 

[duaplex]

Yes PV1 crossover to 80hz. Biwire the center speaker for better clarity of sound (this is debated, so expect a storm now that i said that bit, some say it matters not) but more importantly and what you want to do is Biamp the front two speakers this makes a huge difference and gives more juice to them!

 

[deanhartley]

To answer the questions, yes it was recalibrated for the Apex, as to whether they were run in is unkonwn, I highly doubt either of them were as they are demonstration models in the shop. I would imagine they take a good amount of listening to before they run in.

I have heard the Apex system in two different stores now and both times, the Sub just did not pack the punch so i dont think its an isolated incident. The advantage of the floorstands is that it handles mid range and carries more weight in its bass, therefore it can leave the sub to handle a variation of others frequencies. The apex on the other hand does not have that luxury and relies on the sub for all its bass, which does not allow you to recieve a full range of bass frequencies. The PV1 is an impressive sub, and the distortion was only heard in oe movie, Batman played superbly. But i agree the calibration could have been off on that one.

Sure loads of reviews say different things, such as the Apex matching a floorstand and beating it, but some of the same reviewers have also said that the Q700 gets 3/5 stars and the Q900 gets 4/5. So i take everything with a pinch of salt.

Ultimately its all personal preference, some prefer a different type of sound. I tend to like the sound to engulf me and suck me into the movie with high detail and resounding bass.

I think you might find the systems you heard were not set up properly. We would challenge any sat/sub system of a similar size to a dual with Apex (Set up properly). Likewise, the Apex AW-12 sub is based on the platform of the RXW-12 and the older RSW-12. It's no coincidence this has won many awards both individually and in package reviews.

However, (I think this has been covered) I can't see how anyone could imagine a small sat speaker can match the bass performance of a full size speaker. This is physics. However, the concept is that a sub/sat speaker takes up less space, allows wall mount and table/ unit mount options. The sub can be placed anywhere in the room (within reason) But the main issue here is that the sat speaker is crossed over at a minimum of 80Hz. This reduces the LF distortion and increases the power handling capability of the sat. A subwoofer needs to be carefully positioned. Watch the THX videos on the WHF site at the moment about sub woofers and the link with room acoustics. We would expect a dealer is competent enough to set up a system to get the best possible from it and make suggestions to the customer. Whilst we think the Apex is actually the best performing sat system available, we can't unfortunately guarantee the dealers set up.

 

[Frank Harvey]

David can you elaberate why movie studios use smaller book shelfs.

thanks

Dean has covered some of what I was going to say already, but to add to that, smaller speakers working at a smaller frequency range (nothing below 80Hz) are easier to place in any room, and will be less affected by room boundaries because they're not producing any serious low frequencies. As the sub is taking care of this, you only have to find the one ideal place, instead of five or seven. Large floor standing loudspeakers produce a lot of low bass, and are much more fussy about placement. This can be minimised if they're set to small, but they're usually set to large. This means the speaker itself is doing much more work and limiting itself, instead of the sub easing the load on the speaker.
There's more I could go into, but those are some basics 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

correction to my earlier review they were q700's not 500's that I auditioned, CM's came in quite a bit more expensive and i have a room maybe 10m x 7m plus an Lshape dining area + kitchen all open plan so there is a lot of air....and I read the CM's would suit a smaller space. I am a bit surprised the whathifi only gave the 700's 3 stars as a pair of stereo speakers they sounded very nice to my ears but maybe I prefer the extended treble bias. I will try the Q900 whwn I go back.

 

[duaplex]

Not doubting that the Apex is a good system there , and yes according to reviews it is one of the best. Im just saying that in comparison to the CM8 package i did not prefer it. The CM8 was far more detailed when watching films and did not lack in some scenes. This was observed in two different shops using the same setup and reciever.

If anything should be compared to the CM8 then surely its the GS20 by MA. I also demo'd the RX6 package and that was beautiful, for music a far superior speaker. But for movies im yet ot see anything better than the CM8.....im hoping the GS20 and Kef Q900 will give me something to really think about.

 

[duaplex]

correction to my earlier review they were q700's not 500's that I auditioned, CM's came in quite a bit more expensive and i have a room maybe 10m x 7m plus an Lshape dining area + kitchen all open plan so there is a lot of air....and I read the CM's would suit a smaller space. I am a bit surprised the whathifi only gave the 700's 3 stars as a pair of stereo speakers they sounded very nice to my ears but maybe I prefer the extended treble bias. I will try the Q900 whwn I go back.

I have not heard that one before, but perhaps David can clarify that when he jumps into the thread again. If your room is that big consider the GS20 that works well in bigger rooms or indeed the KEF Q900. But certainly do demo them, I have seen pictures of the CM8 in rooms the size of yours and they are meant to work fine. But wheather they are better than the GS or KEF in that situation is another question.

 

[Anonymous]

Have got a good price from the Kef dealer on q900's for front and 500's for the rear and q200 centers, (q600 does not fit in my unit) as i have nowhere to hang dipoles or a shelves for q300's i am stuck with floors standers however I note the q300's got 5* so should I get them anyway with stands which will push the price up or will q500's be ok?

 

[duaplex]

I would go for the Q500 they are better for use in the rear in your situation, Dipoles are good if you can angle them away from the wall and have correct positioning. This was the exact advise given to me when i queried it. (David is the man to ask on that one, but that what he told me) Just remember the most important speakers are not the rears but more the front and especially center as thats where most of sound you hear comes from.

Yes that center is a beast! the only thing I found to fit it, would be the Gecko with Cantilever. its £370 and the speaker can sit on the top shelf and still leave you with enough clearence to the screen....very nice indeed. Trust me this was the only thing I found that can actually do it. Every other stand I saw was hopeless and searched at least 200!

 

[Anonymous]

have made my purchase and get delivery tomorrow of q900's front q200 centre q500 rear's and a HTB2SE Sub which all sounded very dandy, just need some advise on cables as What Hifi say avoid bright cables but there is no real suggestion as to what is bright or otherwise. I am considering bi amping the fronts so would like to consider cables that suit that and my lx82. Or happy take suggestions about the whole biamping idea.

 

[duaplex]

Sounds like an awesome package!!

They say spend 10% of your budget on cables. Now with a high quality system like this, I would advise you to spend at least £12 per meter on cable (you will not go wrong). The cable must be OFC at least and that will greatly help performance. A great tip is not to mix cables brands or thicknesses etc, so dont think you have to spend more on the fronts then the rear. Some dealers will tell to to spend more on the front and less on the rears using different brands or diameters etc. This is not the case as the resistance will be greater.

Biwire the center and biamp the fronts 🙂 Im going to pick up the CM8 Package on wednesday, going to demo the Lx82, AVR400 and AVR500

May i ask, did you demo any other speakers and AVR and what was your experiance 🙂

 

[Anonymous]

I did demo the 685 package, the shop was using the Arcam500 for that and I was not very impressed really all sounded a bit dull, he was playing Avatar but I could not "feel it" swapped to Music using the same setup and that was certainly better but I much preferred the sound of the Q700's that were being run on a Pioneer amp similar to my own. The CM option was much more expensive than the system I chose in the end, not sure why, the Kef Dealer doing better deals I guess. I listened to a MA system but it was a mismatch of stuff that I failed to get involved with. I actually liked the look of the Kefs over the MA and the B&W and i have no doubt that swayed me as well. I obviously had the Dali Ikons 6's before but I was never really sold on them.

Just got to figure how much to spend on some new cables....Been thinking about the Chord oddssy 2 great write ups but to Biamp or Biwire just the fronts its going to be a few hundred pounds (I will no doubt do it) so I may just double up on my qed cables for now which will probaly not sound as good but a cheaper solution. Running the same cables to the rear I would need min 25mtrs ....damn expensive.

 

[duaplex]

Spend as much as you can really, I am spending about £250 for 35 meters, of course thats at a discounted rate and the cable is normally £12 a meter. Im sure you dealer can give you a similar price! This same stuff wil biwire and biamp the front, you dont need to spend a lot more buy really expensive cable for the front and then cheap for the rears, this is what most delears push on you when in reality you are going to most likely create resistance because of the difference in wires. best thing to do is use the same good quality wire all around.

Thats interesting about the AVR500. Im listening to that tomorrow and he AVR400 and LX83. I will report back my findings on that for you!! I have a feeling im going to walk away with the LX83, but who knows maybe the Arcams will shock me.

 

[CnoEvil]

I did demo the 685 package, the shop was using the Arcam500 for that and I was not very impressed really all sounded a bit dull, he was playing Avatar but I could not "feel it" swapped to Music using the same setup and that was certainly better but I much preferred the sound of the Q700's that were being run on a Pioneer amp similar to my own. The CM option was much more expensive than the system I chose in the end, not sure why, the Kef Dealer doing better deals I guess. I listened to a MA system but it was a mismatch of stuff that I failed to get involved with. I actually liked the look of the Kefs over the MA and the B&W and i have no doubt that swayed me as well. I obviously had the Dali Ikons 6's before but I was never really sold on them.

Just got to figure how much to spend on some new cables....Been thinking about the Chord oddssy 2 great write ups but to Biamp or Biwire just the fronts its going to be a few hundred pounds (I will no doubt do it) so I may just double up on my qed cables for now which will probaly not sound as good but a cheaper solution. Running the same cables to the rear I would need min 25mtrs ....damn expensive.

At the risk of becomming a bore (may even have happened)....google Telurium Q cable. It would be nice to double the fan club. 😀