Analysis of the benefit in creating the phantom centre speaker.

admin_exported

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Many of audiophiles would also like to enjoy the cinema standard movie at home by leveraging on their already near to perfect HiFi setup. One can simply add on a pair or two of surrounding speakers plus supporting power amplifier.

From the mid level to high end, there are numbles of AV processor/Receiver/ Preamplifier which can manage the assigning of centre speaker channel. For example, Rotel 1570, Denon 4810, Classé SSP-800, Arcam AVR-600, Krell S1200 and many more.

In the setup menu, under speakers for channels assignment, one can make centre speaker disabled(No centre speaker connected), and then, the centre channel of the movies will be equally distributed in to front left and right main speakers. We all know that around 85% of dialogue,vocal or main effect all come out from the centre channel. If it had equally split into 2 and been distributed into front left and right channel, and came out from the 2 front speakers. The two same portion of central voice sound wave would be shot to the centre in front of the sitting place and then, head to the person's ears directly from the front. By seating the 2 front left and right speakers in the proper place, it would create a phantom centre channel even no physical centre speaker was in use.

The benefit by doing so is obvious. We know that hardly there's any centre speaker's frequency response can reach below 40Hz, even the best one, say, B&W HTM2 Diamond, can only responds 41Hz - 28kHz ±3dB. Taking advantage on the 2 front speakers' strength, however, would help us to extend the centre channel (phantom) frequency response down to 30Hz, or even lower than that, without any compromise on soundstage and sound quality.

One can alway argue that it can compliment the low frequency range by adding 1 or 2 subwoofer. Bear in mind the imbalance of sound filed could be caused. Meaning to say, in the movie, if the low frequency sound supposed to come from the front, then it should be produce via centre channel, adding 1 or 2 subwoofer may kill the shortage of physical centre speakers capability on low frequency voices, however, the direction of the sound where it come front could effectively confuse movies viewers, particularly in action movies which got people moving fast from and to different positions and and shoot each others, a lot of complicated sound need to be accurately matched and reflected.

Another benefit worth to consider is the cost. Nowadays, in the high end audiophile world, a good centre speaker which match the same series of the front ones, can cost up to £3950. By using the phantom centre speaker instead, people can eliminate this unnecessary cost and spend the money on more important components.
 

kevinJ

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Don't forget that, when using this setup, the left and right speakers have to be close to the tv (max 2m between the two speakers), and everyone has to sit directly in front of the tv. As soon as someone is sitting a little more to the left or right, the created ghost speakers is completely undone. Which was also the reason a centre speaker was added in the first place.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Kevin,

I agree with you more or less. However, we can use more bigger and capable front left and right speakers to create bigger sound image and hence the sound filed is much wider, so that phantom centre speaker can be performed properly even the 2 front speakers are placed more than 2 meters from each other. I would pick up bigger front speakers if I didn't have room space limit.
 
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Anonymous

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kevinJ:Don't forget that, when using this setup, the left and right speakers have to be close to the tv (max 2m between the two speakers), and everyone has to sit directly in front of the tv. As soon as someone is sitting a little more to the left or right, the created ghost speakers is completely undone. Which was also the reason a centre speaker was added in the first place.

Hi Kevin,I agree with you more or less. However, we can use more bigger and capable front left and right speakers(Say, B&W 802D or 800D to create bigger sound image and hence the sound filed is much wider, so that phantom centre speaker can be performed properly even the 2 front speakers are placed more than 2 meters from each other. I would pick up bigger front speakers if I didn't have room space limit.
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Andrew,

It's so nice to meet you! Thanks for your reply. However, what do you mean by "You lost me at 'leveraging'...", I would appreciate you provide your advice and comment in details.
 

Andrew Everard

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I don't think I understand the thesis enough to comment, beyond the fact you're saying you don't need a centre speaker and can do just as well with stereo speakers and 'phantom centre' mode.

To which my answer would be that if you are happy with this, all well and good, but I think I'll stick to using a centre speaker for movies.
 
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Anonymous

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Thank you, Andrew.I think that it is fine to stick with physical centre speaker, however, to achieve the best result of sound field and quality, it'd better to make the FL,FR and centre speakers exactly the same model. Just like what Abbey Road studio and SkyWalker sound studio does, respectively, adopted 3 piece of B&W 800D as FL,FR and centre speakers. The original sound of the mastercopy was created and produced though 3 same physical front speakers after all.
 

The_Lhc

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Well there seems to be an assumption that centre speakers are generally inferior to normal stereo speakers, not sure that's the case, these days the centre speaker is pretty closely based on the equivalent LR speaker, often with an additional driver(s), so if anything you might expect them to be more competent, allowing for driver integration.

I wonder if anyone's tried using two centre speakers as a stereo pair?
 

biggus_1961

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the_lhc:
Well there seems to be an assumption that centre speakers are generally inferior to normal stereo speakers, not sure that's the case, these days the centre speaker is pretty closely based on the equivalent LR speaker, often with an additional driver(s), so if anything you might expect them to be more competent, allowing for driver integration.

I wonder if anyone's tried using two centre speakers as a stereo pair?

well yes,.... here in australia i have heard that some shops have suggested using 2 BW HTM61 centre speakers and one or two sub woofers for stereo use
and 3 BW HTM61 centre speakers as the front 3 speakers .
 
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Anonymous

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Hi Andrew,

My point of view is, the physical centre speaker is not necessary to be placed, instead, the main front L and R speakers and more superior than the same serious centre one, by specifics and performance. Accompanied by 2 or 4 surround speakers, you would enjoy better quality sound of Dolby TruHD or DTS Master Audio format in real situation. You might want to try the setting which I suggested in order to understand my point better.

Alternatively, if you sticked physical centre speaker, the best solution would be using the same 3 speakers, preferably bigger main speaker instead of 3 centre speakers, like what Abbey Road did for their 5 channel studio, 3 B&W 800D was adopted for F,L as well as the centre.
 

Andrew Everard

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Yes, I understood the first time, have listened to the system up in The Penthouse at Abbey Road several times, and have tried both physical and phantom centre set-ups extensively - for material designed to be played on 5.1-, 6.1- or even 7.1-channel systems I happen to prefer using a centre channel speaker.

But then I do use a pretty massive centre speaker...

147c7fe9d75f56_147a856f213f35_14540e06379258_main1.jpg
 

Tom Moreno

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Andrew Everard:
But then I do use a pretty massive centre speaker...

Is that a PMC setup you've got? That must sound very nice indeed.

All this talk of it would be BETTER to not have a Centre channel speaker is hogwash. Sure if you've got the best imaging L/R speakers in the world things should sound fairly well placed along the front soundstage, however movement of sound between channels will not work as well as discrete channels. After all, that's the whole reason why 6.1 was brought forward by Gary Rydstrom. Sure you can get away with mixing elements to the centre of a a rear stereo pair that should sound like it's coming from the back of the room, but when you start panning those sounds into motion things cease to be so cohesive. And once you are listening to something mixed with 6 discrete main channels any movement from the centre back to the front centre gets lost as a sweep around the sides of the room when listening in 5.1, I wouldn't want to hear the effects of the same pan being done in a phantom centre 4.1 system.
 

Andrew Everard

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Tom Moreno:Is that a PMC setup you've got? That must sound very nice indeed.

Yup, and it does. Was playing some new SACD titles through it for my Gramophone audio pages only this morning, and this is just gorgeous...

ckd-354.jpg
 

Tom Moreno

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Andrew, could you either up the res on the pic or post the details on the album? I've been investing in my classical SACD collection of late and am always on the lookout for great performances that have been recorded beautifully.

Thanks
 

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