Amp & speakers for Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC

[fasc]

Hi there,

I have been browsing straight through half of the internet for quite a while now, looking for a configuration that suits my needs and my budget (which is somewhere around 600$ for amp + 2 speakers, although prices - and product availability - vary quite a bit here in Switzerland compared to the US or EU).

I am looking for amp & speakers for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC turntable. I am even considering buying a pair of powered speakers instead so I don't need an amp for now and have some more time to save up for a better one. However, I haven't really followed that path so far. I listen to a wide variety of music, ranging, say, from Johnny Cash to old school Hip Hop, a lot of Indie Rock, and throwing in some Electronic, say Deep House.

I've been looking at the following amps/speakers.

Amps:
- Marantz PM5005
- Pioneer A30
- NAD C316BEE
- NAD C326BEE
- Yamaha AS500

Speakers:
- Canton GLE 436
- Q Acoustics 2020i
- Heco Music Style 200

I am a bit lost because I have too many options. One thing is to find a good product in the price range I'm looking at, another thing is to find and amp and speakers that work well with the turntable. I appreciate any advice, also other product suggestions within the price range.

Thanks!

 

[Al ears]

Hi there,

I have been browsing straight through half of the internet for quite a while now, looking for a configuration that suits my needs and my budget (which is somewhere around 600$ for amp + 2 speakers, although prices - and product availability - vary quite a bit here in Switzerland compared to the US or EU).

I am looking for amp & speakers for the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC turntable. I am even considering buying a pair of powered speakers instead so I don't need an amp for now and have some more time to save up for a better one. However, I haven't really followed that path so far. I listen to a wide variety of music, ranging, say, from Johnny Cash to old school Hip Hop, a lot of Indie Rock, and throwing in some Electronic, say Deep House.

I've been looking at the following amps/speakers.

Amps:- Marantz PM5005- Pioneer A30- NAD C316BEE- NAD C326BEE- Yamaha AS500

Speakers:- Canton GLE 436- Q Acoustics 2020i- Heco Music Style 200

I am a bit lost because I have too many options. One thing is to find a good product in the price range I'm looking at, another thing is to find and amp and speakers that work well with the turntable. I appreciate any advice, also other product suggestions within the price range.

Thanks!

Hi fasc, welcome to the forum.

Firstly, and I realise it may be difficult there in Switzerland, but I always advise people to go and audition for themselves.

Everyones house / hearing is slightly different and what sounds good to some is sometimes going to sound rubbish to others.

You have obviously searched out what you can get locally and hence your list, so I will stick with what is on that. You don't mention much about your listening room size so I'll assume something average.

The idea that you have to get a set-up to suit your turntable is working somewhat backwards. First you need to find a speaker that will perform well in your listening space. So, without rambling on too much, and sticking to your list I would say go and buy the Marantz amp and partner it with the Q Acoustic speakers (and get a good pair of stands to put them on).

Perhaps I should say that I, and I am sure many here in the UK, have not heard the other two speakers on your list. The Q Acoustics are a well known and well regarded item.

 

[splasher]

If you go the active speakers route you'll need a phono stage. Also, not familiar with all the amps you mention - worth checking they all have a phono stage or the same applies.

 

[fasc]

I'm trying to reply but the website thinks I'm posting spam..

EDIT: Wow, so this worked. Apparently, the website didn't want me to write about how most stores usually have products either in the very low price segment or the complete opposite (regarding going to the store to try out/audition the products). When I write it like that, it works haha. So there we go...

Hi guys, and thank you very much for your answers!

I forgot to mention the room: It's an L-shaped bedroom-and-office of nearly 15sqm with normal ceiling height.

The products I've searched out are available at decent prices here and have gotten good reviews. But of course, there may be other good products with good prices on the Swiss market as well. Heco and Canton are both German companies so that might be the reason why they are not available or popular in the UK.

The amps all come with a built-in phono, except the NAD models, so that would add a little cost. However, I might be able to get a - used but practically new - C326BEE for less than 350 dollars, which is quite cheap I think. I'm aware that for the active speakers route I'd need a phono stage, thanks for the tip though!

I just found out that Wharfedale Diamond 220 are available too at a decent price and - a bit more expensive - Dali Zensor 3 (possibly used Zensor 5 even). So I'm sort of just finding more and more options all the time instead of narrowing down the field

Thanks for your support.

 

[drummerman]

The combination of your Project plus a pair of QAcoustic's Q-BT3 featured in one of HifiChoices (UK) dealer systems. - Every month, a dealer will put together 3 systems of choice, each, in their opinion, achieving the best possible combination of sound and value.

The above reviewed very favorably as the cheapest system chosen by the particular dealer (and one of the cheapest 'dealer systems' ever).

The advantage of pursuing this way is that if you ever wanted to upgrade, the powered speakers probably come in handy elsewhere in the house, having bluetooth, digital and analogue ins. On the other hand, you may find its all you ever need.

Good luck

 

[rainsoothe]

Hi. I would look at the Nad C326, if it's like new, it should be great. As for speakers, I would look at the new Monitor Audio Bronze 2, XTZ 93.23 mk2 or second hand B&W DM602 S2 if you can find a mint pair and are willing to trust buying sh speakers. PSB Imagine XB might also work good with the NAD. Q Acoustics might be too smooth with the warm sounding NAD, and the bassy Wharfedale might be too much.

My personal preference would be the XTZ, but I haven't heard the new Monitor Audios. I doubt they're better then the XTZs though - best bang for buck speakers i've heard (besides active monitors ofc).

As for phono stage, you could get the matching NAD PPsomething, it should be a good match. Or the cheapest rega - Rege Mini Fono A2D.

 

[rainsoothe]

Polk Audio RTiA3 might also be a good match btw, don't know if they're in budget or not.

 

[fasc]

The combination of your Project plus a pair of QAcoustic's Q-BT3 featured in one of HifiChoices (UK) dealer systems. - Every month, a dealer will put together 3 systems of choice, each, in their opinion, achieving the best possible combination of sound and value.

Sounds interesting, thank you!

Thanks, rainsoothe, for all your recommendations. XTZ 93.23 mk2 and B&W DM602 S2 seem to be quite hard to get around here. I will take a closer look at the products available.

 

[rainsoothe]

The combination of your Project plus a pair of QAcoustic's Q-BT3 featured in one of HifiChoices (UK) dealer systems. - Every month, a dealer will put together 3 systems of choice, each, in their opinion, achieving the best possible combination of sound and value.

Sounds interesting, thank you!

Thanks, rainsoothe, for all your recommendations. XTZ 93.23 mk2 and B&W DM602 S2 seem to be quite hard to get around here. I will take a closer look at the products available.

The XTZ are bought from their own online shop, there are very few dealerships. That's how they're so cheap, and they have far better build then what you usually find in that price range. Same goes for their sound. Lookup xtzsound online.

 

[Al ears]

The combination of your Project plus a pair of QAcoustic's Q-BT3 featured in one of HifiChoices (UK) dealer systems. - Every month, a dealer will put together 3 systems of choice, each, in their opinion, achieving the best possible combination of sound and value.

Sounds interesting, thank you!

Thanks, rainsoothe, for all your recommendations. XTZ 93.23 mk2 and B&W DM602 S2 seem to be quite hard to get around here. I will take a closer look at the products available.

The XTZ are bought from their own online shop, there are very few dealerships. That's how they're so cheap, and they have far better build then what you usually find in that price range. Same goes for their sound. Lookup xtzsound online.

I have heard XTZ speakers in the past, admittedly higher up the range, but they were without doubt brilliant value for money both build and sound quality-wise. If those 93.23's are 360 euros a pair I would certainly go for them without hesitation.

 

[fasc]

The XTZ are bought from their own online shop, there are very few dealerships. That's how they're so cheap, and they have far better build then what you usually find in that price range. Same goes for their sound. Lookup xtzsound online.

This is getting really interesting now! They don't have a Swiss online shop, but in the German one, the 93.23 is sold at 180€, makes 360€ for two. However, they will substract the tax so it will probably not be much more than 360€ incl. shipping, Swiss tax and customs fees.

 

[Al ears]

The XTZ are bought from their own online shop, there are very few dealerships. That's how they're so cheap, and they have far better build then what you usually find in that price range. Same goes for their sound. Lookup xtzsound online.

This is getting really interesting now! They don't have a Swiss online shop, but in the German one, the 93.23 is sold at 180€, makes 360€ for two. However, they will substract the tax so it will probably not be much more than 360€ incl. shipping, Swiss tax and customs fees.

I am sure these would go very nicely with that Marantz amp

 

[fasc]

The NAD 326 is sold, I was a bit too late, so I think I'm going for the Marantz and the XTZ.

 

[Andrewjvt]

The NAD 326 is sold, I was a bit too late, so I think I'm going for the Marantz and the XTZ.

The nad is a good amp. Good luck on the marantz and xtz. Just be sure thats what you really want though as youll be looking again soon lol

 

[rainsoothe]

The NAD 326 is sold, I was a bit too late, so I think I'm going for the Marantz and the XTZ.

Aww, too bad. Well, if there's any way you could save up a bit more to pair the NAD 326 with the XTZ that would be great. But If you go with Marantz, I would partner that with Dali Zensor 3, or maybe Q Acoustics 3020, these are easyer to drive.

Also, just noticed there's a 2nd hand Rotel RA1520 from germany on ebay, which you can get for the same price as a new NAD C 326BEE. The Rotel, besides oodles of power and good sound (I used to own one, it sounds pretty neutral) also has a phono stage. Worth thinking about it imo. Maybe check other known sites, like audiomarkt dot de.

Goodluck, even if you go for Marantz. But without auditioning, think about partnering it with the Dalis or Q Acoustics I mentioned. Oh, and also maybe the new Monitor Audio Bronze 2, those are easy to drive as well (might be the best match for you from the descriptions I read tbh).

The best sound for your budget can be obtained with actives, of course, but I can't think of a cheaper sollution then NAD PP2 phono preamp, Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 preamp and Yamaha HS7 / Used HS80M / Presonus Eris 5 active monitors. Maybe someone else can point you in a better direction. Goodluck

 

[fasc]

Thanks guys!

So do you think the Q Acoustics 3020 would be a better fit for the Marantz than the slightly more expensive 2020i?

I think the sh Rotel or the new NAD 326 would stretch my budget too much. What about the NAD C316BEE instead of the more expensive NAD? Do you think it would be a reasonable option with the XTZ?

Regarding the active monitor solution: The Maverick doesn't seem to be easily available around here. I'm sort of afraid that in the long run this route (when the time and money to upgrade arrive) might be a waste of money and I will have to buy everything again.

 

[rainsoothe]

Well I don't really know, the C316BEE has the same-ish power as the Marantz, maybe a little better. It depends on what sound you prefer really, the NAD will be more authoritative, Marantz is more liquid. The XTZ compete (imo) with much more expensive speakers - think B&W 685 S2, so if you later decide to upgrade, I think they're keepers - you could easily partner them with the likes of Arcam A19, XTZs own A100D3, Naim Unitiqute 2 etc etc - so if you don't require earthshattering volume, you could give them a try with the NAD (or the Marantz). If you require higher volume or are not sure, go for the other combos - but do try to audition if you can.

(the advantage with the XTZ is that you can send them back for full refund, so that's another plus)

As for the Q Acoustics question - i'm not really sure, but the 3020 is the newer generation version of the 2020. Also, the 2020i are know for being (sometimes) overlysmooth, so they might lack some excitement. Haven't heard the 3020, but they seem to be better in that respect (from what is described).

goodluck

 

[Al ears]

The NAD 326 is sold, I was a bit too late, so I think I'm going for the Marantz and the XTZ.

Aww, too bad. Well, if there's any way you could save up a bit more to pair the NAD 326 with the XTZ that would be great. But If you go with Marantz, I would partner that with Dali Zensor 3, or maybe Q Acoustics 3020, these are easyer to drive.

Also, just noticed there's a 2nd hand Rotel RA1520 from germany on ebay, which you can get for the same price as a new NAD C 326BEE. The Rotel, besides oodles of power and good sound (I used to own one, it sounds pretty neutral) also has a phono stage. Worth thinking about it imo. Maybe check other known sites, like audiomarkt dot de.

Goodluck, even if you go for Marantz. But without auditioning, think about partnering it with the Dalis or Q Acoustics I mentioned. Oh, and also maybe the new Monitor Audio Bronze 2, those are easy to drive as well (might be the best match for you from the descriptions I read tbh).

The best sound for your budget can be obtained with actives, of course, but I can't think of a cheaper sollution then NAD PP2 phono preamp, Maverick Audio Tube Magic D1 preamp and Yamaha HS7 / Used HS80M / Presonus Eris 5 active monitors. Maybe someone else can point you in a better direction. Goodluck

Can you pleae explain how your two mentioned 88dB speakers are going to be an 'easyer to drive' than a 89dB pair?

The Rotel RA-1520 is a good shout though, for the right money.

I'd also dispute (though feel free to disagree) that the active route is the best way to go at this price point. By my calculations there will be little difference in the budget (even if he can import the Maverick Audio into Switzerland) between your suggested system and the Marantz 5005 / XTZ pairing.

I believe your set-up would leave him with a substandard phono stage, a DAC he doesn't need, and a distinct halt in any future speaker upgrade path he may require in the future, however not having heard the Maverick preamp I cannot say for sure whether there would be and sound quality improvement or not. Essentially I'd doubt it unless he pays out a lot more on the phono preamp.

Just sayin' like.

 

[rainsoothe]

I'm only mentioning the Maverick Audio 'coz it's the cheapest preamp with variable volume and analogue input I can think of. As for speaker upgrades, the active path is unlimited and very very worthy - Adam A77X, Event Opals, whatever.

As for the XTZs, tests with measurements say their impedance dips into 4 or even three ohms, quite often, and that they're not the easiest speakers to drive (not saying they're ATC hard to drive, but they're no Q Acoustics / MA either). That's the reason they MIGHT need a bit more heft - the XTZs.

 

[fasc]

Damn it, I just refreshed the site and lost my post. So again...

I think my ideal setup for now (including the products discussed) would be NAD C326BEE, NAD PP2 (or another preamp) and XTZ 93.23 MK2. However, I cannot afford this at the moment, as this will sum up to around $1500. Instead, I'm thinking of buying the XTZ along with the Marantz - or better even a cheap used amp with included phono stage, such as the Rotel RA-04 at 50-170$ (auction on www.ricardo.ch) maybe? - with the intention of replacing it with the NAD + preamp (or maybe something else even, if I will have more money) within the next 6-12 months. Sounds a bit weird, but might be worth it. That way I won't have to sit and wait without using and enjoying the Pro-Ject, I won't have to spend that much right now, but still don't have to make compromises in the long run (still only thinking within the discussed items, of course).

Whatcha think? Crazy?

 

[rainsoothe]

It's not crazy at all. If I remember correctly, I audition the XTZs with their own amp, a Marantz PM6004, Creek Evolution 2 and Rotel RA1520 and they sounded good with all. If you intend to change in the future, geting a 2nd hand amp makes way more sense, so if you can find a Rotel RA04, it should be a nice match. The Rotel is punchier then Marantz, but not as warm as the NAD - just so you get a general idea on how it sounds. I like Rotel a lot, most on these forums seem not to. But for 100$ it's a steal, especially if it's the 04SE. Remember, though, no remote.

And speaking of "no remote" - if one is not really mandatory, if you upgrade later, since you enjoy vynil, consider Croft Phono Integrated - put it on the top of your list - that or Exposure 3010S2 or 2010S2, or Arcam FMJ A19. But that's for a future time, and that's the price bracket you should (imo) match with them XTZs - 700-1000 pounds.

 

[fasc]

Thanks for the recommendations, a remote really isn't big of a requirement. The Rotel is not the SE.. I will keep an eye on it and other things popping up on ebay etc.

The recommended higher priced amps sound really promising..

 

[fasc]

I bought that used Rotel RA-04, should arrive next week. I'll also order the XTZ next week. Looking forward to all of it already -thanks so much for all your advice!

 

[rainsoothe]

cool, let us know how it sounds