Advice on Headphones and Amplifier

[Jason36]

Ok I'm completely new to this idea of using Headphones with a home HiFi system, but I have been prompted tonight that I should really look at investing a a pair ;-)

So I believe that with my Roksan Caspian Amp I will also need a headphone amplifier.

First of all how much different is it listening to music through a pair of headphones....do you tend to "lose" anything through headphones?

Secondly looking for advice on a decent headphone amplifier and headphones...ideally that dont allow sound to leak out or in and obviously they must be comfortable. Price wise I would probably be looking at a total budget of £500.00 for headphone amp and headphones....is this sufficient to get decent music reproduction that isnt painfull or annoying for long listening.

 

[John Duncan]

Totally different. So much so that my Grado 80is sounds better than most stereos I've ever heard (bit in a very different way), and the 325is even more so. Does your Caspian have a headphone out?

 

[eggontoast]

I don't think you loose anything from listening through headphones, conversely I would say that you gain a great deal. Headphones in the £300 bracket will offer a level of insight and detail which would cost thousands to reproduce through a speaker setup. The only problem in your request is that you are going to be looking at closed back headphones due to sound leakage, is this criteria important ?

 

[Jason36]

Totally different. So much so that my Grado 80is sounds better than most stereos I've ever heard (bit in a very different way), and the 325is even more so. Does your Caspian have a headphone out?

Hi John,

Well that's good to hear that I wont actually lose anything from the sound No the Caspian doesnt have a headphone out....which is why I assumed I would need a headphone amp connected to a phono out on the back of the amp.

As for sound I am looking for a clear and dynamic sound that provides insight into the music and that is ideally suitable for all genres of music other than classical and opera.

Not sure how much those speakers are that you recommended but I take it they are good and probably a good place to start?

 

[Jason36]

I don't think you loose anything from listening through headphones, conversely I would say that you gain a great deal. Headphones in the £300 bracket will offer a level of insight and detail which would cost thousands to reproduce through a speaker setup. The only problem in your request is that you are going to be looking at closed back headphones due to sound leakage, is this criteria important ?

Closed back is not so essential, my listening area is in a room next to where the TV is and my other half is just sick of having to keep telling me to turn the music down. I would assume that sound leakage through open back speakers provides a better soundstage and also assume that it woudn't be audible to other people in another room. So to answer your question I wouldnt say closed back is essential.

Any recommendations?

 

[Sizzers]

A big plus 1 for the Grado's then, but they DO leak sound (heavily!).

 

[Jason36]

Thanks for the advice guys.......As I said before sound leakage isnt such a problem as they are for use with home Hifi and I tend to sit in a seperate room with door closed.......

So from what I have read I can get some really good headphones for circa £100.00 and have so far shortlisted:

Grado SR80i - approx £110.00

Sennheiser HD380 Pro - approx £100.00

AKG K271 MkII - Approx £100.00

I also looked at the Grado SR325is at £314.00 but not sure that the extra cost is warranted, bearing in mind I would probably only be listening for an hour at a time with these on.

As for headphone amps I am completely lost....been looking at second hand MF X-Cans (V2 and V3)...any other suggestions...dont want to break the bank so probably up to about £250.00?

Anybody have any experience of the Little Dot MkIII valve amplifiers?

 

[John Duncan]

I have the Fubar IV DAC and headphone amp which is very good indeed, but I got mine at a bargain price, theyay not be such good value now. Worth taking a look at firestone's site though to see if anything elsecat he's your eye.

Your headphone shortlist is a good one - whilst my 325s are amazing, I do think the mainstream models (60/80/125) offer better value.

 

[ID.]

I'd say you lose the soundstage spread in front of you, but probably gain detail (I'd probably also gain deail putting my DB1i firing directly into my ears on either side of my listening position too) and are placed in the music (if that makes any sense).

I enjoy both, and there's a lot of pleasure in headphones, particularly the performance/price ratio compared to regular hi-fi

 

[idc]

A MF X-CAN (S, V2 or V3) with either Grado or AKG suggestions will blow you away. The AKGs are more comfortable and the difference in sound stage between closed and open is way less than the difference in sound leaking between the two. Anyone near you listening to Graods will have to put up with a tinny, rubbish transistor radio sound.

I feel with headphones I am getting all of the music and nothing is going to waste echoing around the room. The detail is amazing.

 

[Jason36]

A MF X-CAN (S, V2 or V3) with either Grado or AKG suggestions will blow you away. The AKGs are more comfortable and the difference in sound stage between closed and open is way less than the difference in sound leaking between the two. Anyone near you listening to Graods will have to put up with a tinny, rubbish transistor radio sound.

I feel with headphones I am getting all of the music and nothing is going to waste echoing around the room. The detail is amazing.

Cheers IDC, that's the sort of response and answer I was hoping for

I'm looking at both the X-CAN and Fubar IV (mainly because it has a DAC and will be good for laptop use as well). I've just listened to a pair of SR60's and was very impressed with these and believe the sound of the 80's is slightly better as well.....so conclusion realistically seems to be......

MF X-Can and SR80's which will bring me in at a grand total of about £180.00....not bad at all really

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

 

[idc]

A couple of points, the futurproofing of the Fubar with its DAC and use with a PC makes it very attractive. Secondly, where are you getting a X-CAN and SR80 for £180? That is very cheap as both go for over £100 each, X-CANs often much more.

 

[eggontoast]

As for sound I am looking for a clear and dynamic sound that provides insight into the music and that is ideally suitable for all genres of music other than classical and opera.

Don't get me wrong I like Grado's.....sometimes, I have a pair of RS2i's but they are definitely not good for all genres of music. I would advise a good listening session before buying them as there are not for everyone.

What genres of music do you listen to predominantly ?

 

[Jason36]

As for sound I am looking for a clear and dynamic sound that provides insight into the music and that is ideally suitable for all genres of music other than classical and opera.

Don't get me wrong I like Grado's.....sometimes, I have a pair of RS2i's but they are definitely not good for all genres of music. I would advise a good listening session before buying them as there are not for everyone.

What genres of music do you listen to predominantly ?

Listening tastes are very varied......

everything from Bob Dylan right through to Massive Attack.....but predominantly it tends to be based around female vocals (Adele etc) / Pink Floyd / Roger Waters / Red Hot Chili Peppers / Nirvanna / Alice in Chains / Eric Clapton / Steely Dan / Chris Rea......I could go on and on and on but that may give you an idea.

I'm really torn between the Grado's and AKG's at the moment....

 

[Jason36]

A couple of points, the futurproofing of the Fubar with its DAC and use with a PC makes it very attractive. Secondly, where are you getting a X-CAN and SR80 for £180? That is very cheap as both go for over £100 each, X-CANs often much more.

Hahaha just realised my maths was a bit out there.......will be more like £250.00 probably but still not bad really I suppose.

 

[idc]

That is more like it! X-CANs go for roughly what they sold for originally, so anything under £160 for a X-CANS or V2 is good.

Grado SR80 vs AKG K271 MKII

Comfort - clear winner, AKG because of big comfy pads, of which you have a choice with felt or pleather (vinyl) and the head band adjusts itself over you head. The AKG also comes with two types of cable which detach. The Grados cable goes to both cans and is stiff and prone to twisting.

Sound leaking - clear winner, AKG leaks less sound than any other headphone I have tried.

Sound stage - winner Grado as it is open backed, but the AKG is not bad.

Sound quality - either, the Grado does dynamics and attack, the AKG is more refined and detailed.The Grado's bass is sharper, the AKG more lush. I like both.

Portablity - clear winner Grado as it is more sensitive and can be used fine out of an ipod plus it folds and is physically smaller than the bulky AKG.

 

[Jason36]

That is more like it! X-CANs go for roughly what they sold for originally, so anything under £160 for a X-CANS or V2 is good.

Grado SR80 vs AKG K271 MKII

Comfort - clear winner, AKG because of big comfy pads, of which you have a choice with felt or pleather (vinyl) and the head band adjusts itself over you head. The AKG also comes with two types of cable which detach. The Grados cable goes to both cans and is stiff and prone to twisting.

Sound leaking - clear winner, AKG leaks less sound than any other headphone I have tried.

Sound stage - winner Grado as it is open backed, but the AKG is not bad.

Sound quality - either, the Grado does dynamics and attack, the AKG is more refined and detailed.The Grado's bass is sharper, the AKG more lush. I like both.

Portablity - clear winner Grado as it is more sensitive and can be used fine out of an ipod plus it folds and is physically smaller than the bulky AKG.

Thanks IDC,

What with that and what I heard of the SR60's today I think the decision has been made on the SR80's. They are pretty much for home use only (possibly in bedroom with an iPod) and rarely in the vicinity of anyone else. I like the fact that the Grado's earpieces lay flat.....less chance of breaking them.

You never know I may end up buying both eventually and then use either depending on what mood or music I'm listening to

 

[eggontoast]

You never know I may end up buying both eventually and then use either depending on what mood or music I'm listening to

After getting your first pair this is guaranteed you will have a collection before you know it ;-)

 

[eggontoast]

Listening tastes are very varied......

everything from Bob Dylan right through to Massive Attack.....but predominantly it tends to be based around female vocals (Adele etc) / Pink Floyd / Roger Waters / Red Hot Chili Peppers / Nirvanna / Alice in Chains / Eric Clapton / Steely Dan / Chris Rea......I could go on and on and on but that may give you an idea.

I'm really torn between the Grado's and AKG's at the moment....

Both the Grado's and AKG are bass shy cans but if you have listened to the Grado's and can live with the lack of bass then go for them.

Might also be worth while auditioning some Beyerdynamic DT-880's or possibly 990's wouldn't bother with the 770's as they are good for electronic, dance, hip hop etc but the mids are no good for vocal's, classical etc.

Don't think you can go too wrong with an x-can for the money. Others to consider for similar money are a little dot 1+, Fiio E9/E7 combo the latter being usefull for PC music or improving the an ipods headphone out. Both are good performers for the money.

 

[idc]

They are not bass shy, they are bass detailed with a bass and not a BASS sound. Both will thump out bass when it is there in the first place, they just do not over emphasise it like many other cans do pandering to modern tastes.

 

[Jason36]

They are not bass shy, they are bass detailed with a bass and not a BASS sound. Both will thump out bass when it is there in the first place, they just do not over emphasise it like many other cans do pandering to modern tastes.

Having just listened to the SR60's for 45 mins or so.....I would agree with your comment IDC. I certainly wouldnt say they are Bass Shy. I'm not into room shaking Drum n Bass....I like to hear Bass when its there in a controlled manner alongside strong mid and high's.

I listened to a variety of music on the SR60's and they seemed to be just what I was after.......

IDC, your comments on the Grado's and AKG and really just confirmed the Grado's are what I am looking for

 

[eggontoast]

Having just listened to the SR60's for 45 mins or so.....I would agree with your comment IDC. I certainly wouldnt say they are Bass Shy. I'm not into room shaking Drum n Bass....I like to hear Bass when its there in a controlled manner alongside strong mid and high's.

I listened to a variety of music on the SR60's and they seemed to be just what I was after.......

That's good and I'm sure you will enjoy them very much as I did to start with mine........that is until you start purchasing or listening to other cans. This will then highlight the Grado's short comings as I found out after purchasing my Stax.

Enjoy the Grado's

 

[eggontoast]

They are not bass shy, they are bass detailed with a bass and not a BASS sound. Both will thump out bass when it is there in the first place, they just do not over emphasise it like many other cans do pandering to modern tastes.

Sorry I didn't add IMO on my comment, you are also entitled to your opinion of course.

Certainly looks like Bass rolloff on the frequency sweep also http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=353&graphID[]=723

 

[rich51080]

Take a look at Alessandro - I own the MS2i and they are known for being better than Grados own 325i.

And the bonus is you pay for them in dollars so you get more for your money.

The Ms1i is equivalent to the sr125i and all for 70 quid inc free shipping to UK.

I would never buy Grado in UK as overpriced.

Considering Alessadros are made by Grado Labs but tweeked to obtain a more neutral sound.

 

[Jason36]

Cheers for all the advice guys...its been a great help.

Just on the Amplifier Side I am seriously considering the Fubar IV Plus....mainly because of the future proofing this offers and also the functionality......as I see it the Fubar will allow me the following options.....

1) Headphone listening via my main HiFi system

2) Improved sound connected to my laptop for headphone listening via the USB DAC

3) Potential to have a small lounge based system for listening using the digital connections to a Digital iPod Dock

All in all that's potentially 3 systems via one box