Advice building a Home Theatre PC.

[admin_exported]

First of all I want to thank PJPro for introducing me to WASAPI, EAC with Accurate Rip and Foobar2000. I have a Marantz SR4200 with a pair of Mission M70 speakers perched on a bookshelf above my computer desk. I was using iTunes with all my CD's ripped at 256kb AAC plumbed via a Realtek onboard soundcard digital coax. I recently bought Depeche Modes 'Sounds Of The Universe', at the end there is a hidden ditty and I enjoyed the sound of distant spooky background noise until I realised that the noise should be silence. After following your article I ripped the CD with FLAC and enabled WASAPI through Foobar2000, my jaw dropped with the improvement in clarity. I've now ordered a Terabyte hard drive to store my larger reripped CD collection. As usual reading WhatHiFi costs me money

This leads me onto the above question. I want to build a HTPC incorporating DVBS-2, BluRay and Wireless Internet. I like the look of the Antec Fusion case as a place to start as it will not look out of place with present A/V gear. I have surplus at the moment an E8500 cpu and 2gb DDR3 memory. So my shopping list should be the following;

- PC case

- Micro ATX motherboard (with BluRay decoding and DDR3 capability)

- DVBS-2 card

- Wireless Internet

- CPU cooler

- Graphics card

Can I have advice on what to buy, my budget is approx €800?

Secondly am I wasting my time?

My amp won't support TrueHD decoding so my only option would be to interconnect from the motherboard and I fear this would sound awful.

I want to plumb my music via optical/digital interconnect to my Sony STR-DA1200ES hoping for an upgrade in musical quality, would I be better to risk divorce and buy the DACMagic as well?

 

 

[Anonymous]

Hauppauge WinTV-HVR4000 HD digital satellite DVB-S2TV Tuner ?110

Asus S775 Intel G45 MATX X4500HD ?1301

Akasa S775 3.6GHz Copper Heatsink with PWM Fan ?18

OCZ Technology DDR2 4gb (2x2) REAPER 1066Mhz ?75

ÿCPU E8500 ?0

Seagate 1.5TB Barracuda 7200RPM SATA-300 32MB?135ÿ

LG Electronics Blu-Ray/HD DVD-ROM COMBO 16x DVD+/-RW Retail BLK ?90

ÿMicrosoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/SP1 -Licence and media - 1 PC - OEM - DVD - 32-bit ?85

Antec Fusion Remote Blackÿÿ?190

?833 plus delivery charges. Can anybody see anyshortfalls/problems?ÿ

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[Tonya]

Well one glaring shortcomming would be the word Vista.
It really does suck the resources out of the hardware, so I would actually stay with either XP or download the new Windows 7 RC which will be legally available from Microsoft in a few days time, with a one year's free activation thrown in.
Unless you are planning to buy a real powerhouse of a PC, today's Vista is about as useful as a one legged man in a bottom kicking competition. (hey, just found out I can't say ar** here!)
File copying speeds are STILL atrocious even after several botched attempts at patching it.
But I digress, obviously the soundcard is important too, as rarely I have heard a decent onboard sound device that can match an external unit.
There's just too much electronic pollution going on inside the PC box to get good results.

And at the risk of starting a huge debate here, much better video quality would probably be obtained by using a modest Blu-Ray player instead of a PC, as the amout of video processing with a 1080p signal is immense.

There, I've said it . . . .

 

[nads]

having done something similar, initially to use as a place to stream music from but then thought i would use it to store my DVD's as i was running out of space on the shelves.

thought about using it for HD discs but the size of the storage needed is big, Also it seems that most people with media PCs only store/transmit at 720p (why i have no idea but i cant say that i see the point).

a point to consider is noise and what temp the CPU is happy working at.

running XP at the moment.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your feedback. My original plan was to just play music as i liked the idea of quality and versatility by juke boxing my collection from the telly.

However my Topfield sat receiver is a dog to use. The EPG is terrible. I'd like to upgrade to BluRay but my amp does not support it. So I thought that the HTPC would be my panacea.

Any views on Linux?

Do you think the HTPC route is waste of money and a bad solution?

What about a different motherboard and a plug in soundcard, can you recommend anything?ÿ

 

[cram]

adamshaw:Do you think the HTPC route is waste of money and a bad solution?

To a certain extent it depends on your requirements and how happy/confident you are about tinkering with a PC setup. For me I wanted all my media (photos, DVDs, music, bluray) accessible from a single place. I've acheived this and whilst pleased with the results would say that it has been a complete PITA to setup. And getting bitstreamed HD audo out of the PC probably was not worth the price that I paid. Despite previous comments on the thread I didn't really find myself disadvantaged by using Vista (and I have done same/similar setup using XP as an experiment). I'm a glutton for punishment and am now trying to emulate what I have on the PC on the Mac though some thought need to go into HD stuff.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Cram. I'm competent enough about building the PC and will be doing much the same as yourself excluding the MAC. I have a PC in my study with Sat TV and am currently bitstreaming music to my amp. However I have 46" TV in the lounge with a 5.1 setup lovely for a media setup. I think overall the BluRay is the biggest issue for me. Bitstreaming my music shouldn't affect quality but high definition audio via interconnects might be trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

I'm limited by money mainly and space second. An HTPC does sound like a desirable solution plus you can build and tailor your own needs. Commercial products are limited and expensive to my mind. At a later date maybe I can upgrade the amp and send data out via HDMI 1.3.

Perhaps the question I should be asking at this stage is will the BluRay look and sound terrible in this setup, or will it surpass the current upscaled DV7001?ÿ

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[cram]

adamshaw: Perhaps the question I should be asking at this stage is will the BluRay look and sound terrible in this setup, or will it surpass the current upscaled DV7001?

Bluray will look and sound fine. Issues you will have will be:

1) are you ripping the blurays if so storage space

2) what software are you going to use to play blurays (I favour Arcsoft TMT v3, other packages are available)

3) Do you want metadata/artwork

4) Are you going to use something like Media Centre, Media Portal etc.

5) How are you outputting the sound from the PC. Analog or digital. If digital then you will be limited to the Dolby/DTS cores and will not be getting HD sound. Analog will allow a theoretical better quality but this will still be downsampled (48Khz/16-bit)

6) Noise from the PC. Quiet cases are available.

7) How are you going to control the PC (remote, keyboard etc.)

 

[Anonymous]

1. I will have a terabyte hard drive. Should be enough space to rip temporarily. I'll be renting discs.

2. Hadn't thought about software. I'll look into that.

3. Hadn't thought about that either. I assume link to the internet will help me with this.

4. Vista provides Media Centre but a little awkward with Sat TV. Was possibly going with SageTV for the DVB and Foobar2000 for the music. I see that the next version of iTunes may support BluRay.

5. Analog. If I understand correctly BluRay forces HDMI 1.3 support for digital and my amp doesn't. COAX/Optical will give me DD/DTS as you say. I take it the DAC on the soundcard won't sample higher than 48Khz/16bit?

6. I'm was considering the Antec Fusion I believe it is relatively quiet. Do you have any better suggestions?

7. I have a universal remote Logitech Harmony 555. Although wireless mouse and keyboard a more practical option.ÿ

 

[cram]

1. 1tb is about enough for 20 blu rays
4. I'm currently using Vista Media Centre with the media browser plug in. Using meta browser to pull in the artwork and meta data. Take a look at www.mediabrowser.tv it looks pretty good and is easy to setup.. Win 7 improves on the Sat TV situation. Yeah I've heard the rumour about Itunes but at a minimum I think it will downsample audio (no protected audio path). I'm taking a wait and see approach with this. Plus for films I think Itunes makes a poor front end when compared to things like media centre/media portal etc.
5. The issue with the downsampling is because of constraints placed on the software companies by the bluray consortium. Google protected audio path. Having said that a significant number of blu rays are at 48Khz/16-bit anyway. This is still better than DVD.
6. Have an Antec Fusion myself and it is pretty quiet. Just watch out for the wiring of the IR receiver. If done incorrectly you can't wake the machine from sleep using the remote. The manual isn't clear. I also unplugged the HD led as I found this distracting.
7. If using the harmony with the Antec then you are best off setting the Imon software to work with a media centre remote. The Harmony has issues emulating the Antec remote. I use a Harmony One but also use a wireless keyboard with built in mouse pad for some tasks.

 

[nads]

cram:
1. 1tb is about enough for 20 blu rays

which is why i am keeping seperate BD and HDDVD players and just putting the DVD on the hard drive.

Not sure i would want to use the PC to play the HDDVD/BD's as the LG reader is OK but not great. (good back up if the HDDVD player dies).

 

[Anonymous]

Found some reviews on the motherboard and drew the conclusion I would be better off going for cheaper model and buying sound card and graphics separate.

Looked more into media software and even moer confused. MediaPortal and XBMC look interesting so far. If either can work with WASAPI they will be more alluring.

 

[cram]

adamshaw:

Found some reviews on the motherboard and drew the conclusion I would be better off going for cheaper model and buying sound card and graphics separate.

Looked more into media software and even moer confused. MediaPortal and XBMC look interesting so far. If either can work with WASAPI they will be more alluring.

I'd agree with you on the motherboard. Re media portal I think it works with a foobar plugin so there maybe a route into WASAPI there for you

 

[Anonymous]

Xonar HDAV1.3 Seriesÿhttp://digihub.smh.com.au/node/300

Found this new kit which will be of interest to anybody with an AV Receiver which accepts HDMI 1.3. You will be able to get lossless digital.

As for me I've seen mention that Arcsoft has a workaround for the downsampling on analogue. Would I be correct in thinking that any mobo or soundcard that supports 5.1 output will transport the decoded DTS HD etc.?

I've a Nvidia 9600GT which has HDMI output. Do you know if that would be adequate for BluRay picture?ÿ

 

[cram]

adamshaw: As for me I've seen mention that Arcsoft has a workaround for the downsampling on analogue. Would I be correct in thinking that any mobo or soundcard that supports 5.1 output will transport the decoded DTS HD etc.?

Arcsoft don't have a workround for downsampling on analog. An older version didn't used to do it. Later releases of version 2 and the newer version 3 do it deliberately as does PowerDVD.

I have the HDAV 1.3 and can confirm that I can bitstream to my receiver.

Can't comment on the Nvidia as not overly familiar with their range but I believe that there are people over on the Arcsoft forums who have used this.

 

[Anonymous]

I've downloaded MediaPortal and I'll give it a lookover.

Researched the 9600GT and it will transmit HDMI 1.3. ÿIt appears to me that if I can get an appropriate soundcard I can connect it internally to transport the audio.

I should never have started reading these forums as they always cost me money. I've seen that the Sony STR-DA2400ES could sort my problems for less than £400. The wife's eyes rolled to the back of her head when I told her, which I took as resigned acceptance.

I live in Ireland though and there is nothing on eBay or RicherSounds.ieÿ

 

[cram]

Like I said I'm not familiar with Nvidia kit but with ATI kit I don't need to have a separate soundcard. The sound (7.1) just goes via HDMi with the correct drivers. I only bought the HDAV card cause I wanted to bitstream HD codecs and have the amp decode it.

 

[Anonymous]

So would I be right in thinking that although I may be able to transmit sound through a graphics card HDMI port as it is only connected to the SPDIF header on the mobo it will only be transporting DD/DTS?

The HDAV card you have, does that run from PCI slot and do you have it running picture for graphics card as well as sound therefore using one HDMI cable to amp rather than two?ÿ

 

[cram]

The HDAV card works from a PCIe slot, ASUS are rumoured to be launching a bog standard PCI one later in the year.. Yes it takes picture and sound but the picture comes from my graphics card via a very short HDMI lead into the HDAV, then another HDMI lead takes picture and sound to my receiver.

However, prior to getting the HDAV card I had sound and graphics going out from my ATI HD4850 card. This gave 7.1 sound. I didn't have to connect it to any sound headers on the mobo it was seen by Vista as a sound card in its own right. Like I said not familiar with Nvidia so don't know how it works with their cards.

If I were you I wouldn't look at something like the HDAV at the moment, it's expensive for what it is (I could have bought a dedicated bluray player for less). Get your system running without one then decide whether you are happy with the quality or not.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I've looked at that ATI card and it like the dogs dangly bits. Quite incredible that it will run video and audio for TrueHD etc. This has to be my solution, cheaper mob and no soundcard needed at all.

I take it that you cannot just pass the audio through raw for decoding on the amp, it's all or nothing hence the HDAV?

Was it worth it, I did notice that you said not to rush in and buy it?ÿ

 

[cram]

well I get to see the TrueHD lamp on my amp light up. Did I notice a huge improvement on downsampled 48Khz/16-bit sound? In all honesty no but this could be as much to do with the audio quality of the discs that I own and I've yet to try a detailed side by side comparison.

Yeah at the moment none of the popular bluray players will pass anything other than downsampled sound unless you have hardware like the HDAV. Reportedly a player coming from Slysoft will be able to do this but there is no published release date for this yet.

 

[up the music]

I'm using an Antec Fusion Max Remote case. It is a lovely case on the whole. I found the VFD and supplied IMon software to be pretty much useless but others may get more mileage from it. The hard disc enclosures are a complete pain to work in, especially if you want to use 2 drives. The 2 power leads can be a little confusing too.

The air flow is brilliant and the case is big enough to take full ATX mobo and full length graphics cards together with some fairly substantial coolers.

I have no HDMI input on my AV amp and only have DVD not Bluray so I've not had to overcome problems with TrueHD and HDMI out.

I tried a Kworld DVB tuner I had kicking around but found my TV signal was not really strong enough to use it.

I went for a full ATX Gigabyte 790 mobo with a 40 watt AMD 4850 2.5Gb dual core. I cool this passively with a Scythe Ninja Mini cooler. I think this is about the max power processor for passive cooling. I've 4Gb Geil 800MHz RAM which is should alsobe enough for BluRay.

Graphics is provided by an ATI 4850 (a HIS one) but I'd need to use an adapter to get HDMI out of this. In doing so I think I'd lose the True HD audio out from it. I probably made a mistake there. The graphics is cooled by an Arctic Cooling S1R2 again ran passively.

I'm using the mobo onboard optical out into a Beresford TC7510 DAC and this works fine for music. The DAC won't decode multichannel audio.

I removed the stock fans from the case and replaced them with a 14cm Yate Loon and 12cm Noctua. I found I only need to run the 14cm case fan around 550rpm to keep it cool, so the Noctua is redundant.

I've gone overboard on the PSU. I started with an Enermax Modo 82 PSU. Despite it's great reputation I found it too noisy. I swapped it out for a Silverstone Nightingale 425W fanless. These are massively expensive at £135 but totally silent.

I also got a 1TB and a 750Gb Samsung Spinpoint 32Mb cache hard drive.

With a 22" Viewsonic monitor and Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse I pulled this lot (without DAC) for £800 in December '08. It did take extensive research to get the best prices though.

The result is a PC that is more quiet playing music than my Cambridge 640C CD player's tray spinning. It'll do games too but is limited by the processor. I use SVHS out to AV amp to CRT. The picture is far from brilliant, but that's to be expected from my cabling formats and TV.

Now things are a little cheaper I figure you can manage a Blu Ray too into the budget and use a better coice of graphics card.

Those HDAV cards Cram speaks of do look to be the way forward.

I'd echo the commemts about Vista. I'm stuck with that at the moment because my original XP and both backups have become uninstallable. I came to loath Vista within an hour of installing it.

I'd liken it to a very pretty pedigree dog which runs round the house breaking things and sh*tting on your carpets then refusing to go for a walk.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks 'up the music' you've given me more food for thought.

 

[nads]

the insides on my media storer/player



clicky for bigger.

Like i said not doing the HD stuff yet as the cost are higher than i want to go. Not doing TV as the built in in the TV is fine, Still a work in process.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to keep you posted I finally took the plunge and bought the bits and pieces I needed (gave the credit card a bit of a hammering, gulp). I have bought the following;

Antec Fusion Max Remote

ATI Radeon 1GB HD4850

Seagate 1TB Hard Drive

Gigabyte EP45C-DS3R motherboard

Hauppauge Win Nova DVB-S2 satellite card

Windows Vista Home Premium 32bit

Nesteq 700W PSU

Mini Ninja CP Cooler

I already have the 2GB of DDR3 memory and E8500 CPU. The motherboard I will probably swap with my PC's EP35C motherboard. I left out the BluRay player for now as dicussed earlier there are issues re downsampling. For now the HTPC when it is constructed will make do as a satellite receiver and juke box.ÿ

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