Advice Amp+CD+speakers £ 1300-1500

[admin_exported]

Hi, I'm new here... I discovered this forum doing some research as I am about to upgrade my very, very old stereo (20 yrs old!).

My initial idea was to go for a amp & cd player Teac CR-700 with a Bose Acoustimass 5 system. However, after a good use of the search function in this site, I am tempted to go a completely different way and choose the Marantz combo (PM6004+CD6004), possibly with the Rotel RA-10 as an alternative to the PM6004. In terms of speakers, I am thinking of BX2.

However I still have a few questions left unanswered and would really appreciate your thoughts...

1. The Teac + Bose vs. Rotel/Marantz + BX2 comparison... they are such different alternatives I find it hard to decide. Is the second option much better in terms of quality? Is Bose really just a "lifestyle" speaker system, whose quality does not match the price & hype? Or is it really good and just a bit snobbed because of its "lifestyle appeal"?

2. If I go for the Rotel amp, does it work well with the Marantz CD6004 or should I go for a different cd player too?

3. Finally, is it worth upgrading the speakers from BX2 to RX1?

Oh, for info, I live in a small(ish) flat so obviously there's a limit to the volume I can use and the very old stereo I'm about to dump is Technics SU600 amp + SL-P177A cd player with AR Red Box II speakers...

thank you very much!

 

[CnoEvil]

My suggestion would be to go for a Rega system: Apollo R + Brio R + RS 1 / RS3

 

[Overdose]

Have a look at the Dynaudio Xeo 3 and consider a Bluray player for disc playback. The same would appy to the ADM9RS. If you already own a CD/DVD or Bluray player, no real need to buy a dedicated CD player.

The ADMs have increased in price and product performance since the linked to review.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to both!

The idea of buying vs not buying a dedicated cd player is interesting... do you think they have evolved a lot in terms of quality and technology, compared to the old models such as the one I have? I would have thought not so much (just talking about the cd player here)...

thanks

 

[Overdose]

Things always evolve and improvements are made, but these days, digital sources do not really vary too much in the way they sound, far more emphasis should be placed on the speakers and amplification and this part of the system needs to be treated as a whole, so active speakers such as those mentioned are an ideal solution in my opinion. More money will give you better build quality and features, but not necessarily better sound quality.

Differing opinions exist however, so it is best to hear this for yourself. Bare in mind, that when using the speakers that I mentioned, both have internal DACs, so whatever digital source you connect, you have the option of using either the internal speaker DAC or the DAC from the source.

 

[relocated]

If I had your budget I would buy a pair of active AVI ADM 9RS/RSS and use any disc spinner that you have that has an optical out. Buying AVI ADMs was the best money I have ever spent in 40 years of hi-fi. As has been said, it is an almost complete system - speakers, amps, pre-amps, DAC, remote and power and interconnect cables, just add your source.

You won't be disappointed, I'm sure.

:cheers:

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Another vote for the Xeos.

Going to hear a dem with a mate next weekend - quite excited! He's going back to Oz so the ADMs aren't an option.

 

[Frank Harvey]

With that sort of budget, why don't you keep the CD player (as long as it is still working ok) and go the streaming route?

If you like the Rotel amplifier, try the RA12 - its more powerful, remote controlled, and has a high quality onboard DAC, into which you can plug in various digital as well as the usual analogue sources. If your current CD player has a digital output, you can plug it in digitally, and you could pick up a Sonos Connect and plug that into the Rotel digitally too and stream your music you have stored on a NAS drive. The Sonos will also give you access to Internet radio, and if you subscribe, the likes of Spotify, Napster and Last.FM too, as well as other music streaming services.

I make that about £1k give or take, and the rest you can spend on speakers.

If you really want to save a bit of money, you could buy a normal HDD drive and plug it into the USB input on the front of the RA12 and not bother with the Sonos. A normal HDD drive will be a little cheaper, and you'll save about £280 on the Sonos box. An RA12 and a HDD drive will set you back about £650, which again, you can spend the remainder on speakers.

If you're not interested in streaming at all, you can still look at amplifiers with built in DACs like the RA12 and Pioneer A70 and plug your current CD player in digitally.

 

[the record spot]

It really depends what you want to use your system for, what kind of sound you like, and whether or not you want a "simple" setup, with as few boxes as possible, or want to have some interaction with your system - that'll give you a series of options and you can decide from there.

For me, I like the flexibility separates offer you, and sound quality for relatively little money - even less than your budget if you shop around or go secondhand - can be excellent.

 

[byakuya83]

Audiolab have some award winning equipment, the 8200CDQ is a CD player with pre-amp, DAC and digital inputs.

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200CDQ

You could combine this with some active speakers for a neat little system.

Finding active speakers that look good in the home might prove tricky - perhaps B&O?

 

[relocated]

Audiolab have some award winning equipment, the 8200CDQ is a CD player with pre-amp, DAC and digital inputs.

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.aspx?lang=En&Tab2=8200CDQ

You could combine this with some active speakers for a neat little system.

Finding active speakers that look good in the home might prove tricky - perhaps B&O?

Not a problem at all with the AVI ADM 9RS/RSS. Stand mount boxes, the finish of which, on my piano black gloss, is exceptional.

 

[Overdose]

Or for balance, the Xeo 3s.

 

[byakuya83]

Two very good suggestions. I cannot think of anything else for around a similar price.

Maybe someone can chip in with some worthwhile alternatives?

 

[the record spot]

Genelec's lovely 8040a active is also a rather lovely, and somewhat sleeker option too methinks (IMO only I should add, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that). Connection is by balanced XLR (or unbalanced but with care when connecting up!), so you'd need to obtain a rather easily obtainable adapter. Of course, they'll blow most of your budget, but £150 will get you a Teac UD-H01 DAC from Richer Sounds, simply hook up your CDP via optical (or coax) and then a set of balanced XLRs thereon to the Gennies. Sit back, enjoy...

If the 8040's break the bank to much, the 8030a at around £850 should get you on your way too. You could then get the audiolab pre-amp (or similar, there's a stack to choose from now) and it comes with XLR connectivity too,. Job also done. The Gennies also come in their standard granite (aka - grey!) finish too, which is also rather smart. If you want something that's bang up to date, well constructed, with a contemporary finish do check them out. Here's a place that'll do you a 14-day money back guarantee for your trouble on the 8040s:-

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/genelec-8040a-studio-monitor-speaker-single

Dawsons have the 8040 on sale at £699 per speaker, down from £800-odd. That's not a bad deal for the quality of speaker you're buying. I've heard them and they're simply effortless.

 

[Overdose]

Genelec's lovely 8040a active is also a rather lovely, and somewhat sleeker option too methinks (IMO only I should add, beauty in the eye of the beholder and all that). Connection is by balanced XLR (or unbalanced but with care when connecting up!), so you'd need to obtain a rather easily obtainable adapter. Of course, they'll blow most of your budget, but £150 will get you a Teac UD-H01 DAC from Richer Sounds, simply hook up your CDP via optical (or coax) and then a set of balanced XLRs thereon to the Gennies. Sit back, enjoy...

I can't fault the speakers or the DAC, but be aware that the TEAC DAC has a fixed line out, so could not be used as a preamp.

 

[the record spot]

Other options are available (e.g. Audiolab M-DAC and the 8030a instead).

 

[Craig M.]

If I had your budget I would buy a pair of active AVI ADM 9RS/RSS and use any disc spinner that you have that has an optical out.

+1. If you want to make a hobby out of tinkering with your hifi, look elsewhere. If you want a fit-and-forget system that sounds great, I don't think you can do better for your money.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all!

Am going to test some of these systems tomorrow and I feel seriously tempted by the idea of AVI ADM9, after all the point is really to get the best possible quality of sound, not necessarily playing/tinkering with the system. Last question: I am not really a bass freak but I do like to hear it and generally, I like a warm sound... how do the AVI ADM9 fare in that respect?

 

[CnoEvil]

You need to listen to something like the Rega system and the Active AVI speakers and pick what you prefer. Something is only good vfm if you like it. Never buy blind if you can possibly help it.

 

[Overdose]

You need to listen to something like the Rega system and the Active AVI speakers and pick what you prefer. Something is only good vfm if you like it. Never buy blind if you can possibly help it.

I would say that the bass on actives is not necessarily less, but generally better controlled. It is the lack of bass bloom that is perceived as less bass.

Yes, in essence, the best speaker/system is the one you like the sound of the best.

 

[CnoEvil]

You need to listen to something like the Rega system and the Active AVI speakers and pick what you prefer. Something is only good vfm if you like it. Never buy blind if you can possibly help it.

I would say that the bass on actives is not necessarily less, but generally better controlled. It is the lack of bass bloom that is perceived as less bass.

Yes, in essence, the best speaker/system is the one you like the sound of the best.

At the budget we are talking about, you are probably right, though my experience with sensibly priced Actives is limited (non-existent). For me, the biggest factor in whether I like a system, is in the mid-range, as everything else seems to "hang off" that.....I am looking for a natural presentation, with the intention of the musicians being communicated, which is totally subjective.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

[I would say that the bass on actives is not necessarily less, but generally better controlled. It is the lack of bass bloom that is perceived as less bass...

You're forgetting the major impact the cabinet size and construction methods have on bass and its control, not to mention the fr of the driver.

As with any passive or active speaker, if the driver can't go low (and that usually means small ones) you can't add what isn't there. If your box is boomy, again the xover type ain't going to make much difference.

 

[BigH]

[I would say that the bass on actives is not necessarily less, but generally better controlled. It is the lack of bass bloom that is perceived as less bass...

You're forgetting the major impact the cabinet size and construction methods have on bass and its control, not to mention the fr of the driver.

As with any passive or active speaker, if the driver can't go low (and that usually means small ones) you can't add what isn't there. If your box is boomy, again the xover type ain't going to make much difference.

The AMds have 6.5 inch woofer so I think the bass will be fine, but tight not boomy, not sure they will sound warm , more neutral from what Ive heard.

I'm in a similar position to you, I will demo some Rega gear and others then have a trip to Gloucestshire and hear the AMD system. The AMD system seems better value, with quality speakers, 250 watt amp for each woofer and 75 W amp foe each tweeter and decent DAC. Some converts have been over moon the witn the active system but depends what you want and your taste.

 

[AlmaataKZ]

my recommendation, based on experience, is get accurate sounding speakers even if you like warm sound. after you get used to controlled, accurate bass you will no longer like warm sound. and you will not be able to stand boomy bass.

what you hear on average speakers and subs is lots and lots (up to 20-30% in low bass) harmonic distortion, which is percieved as deep or lots of bass, while what it does to the actually recorded bass is mush it, mask it and make it 'one-note', as apposed to reproducing a bass melody/rulade, for example. add room resonances to it and you get the speaekr and room boom, not the bass from the record.

see section 3 here for an example:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-measmt.htm

 

[Overdose]

[I would say that the bass on actives is not necessarily less, but generally better controlled. It is the lack of bass bloom that is perceived as less bass...

You're forgetting the major impact the cabinet size and construction methods have on bass and its control, not to mention the fr of the driver.

As with any passive or active speaker, if the driver can't go low (and that usually means small ones) you can't add what isn't there. If your box is boomy, again the xover type ain't going to make much difference.

I see what you are saying, but the crossover does have an important role to play here and also, regarding small monitors, in the main, they are designed to not to try to dig too deep, as subs are available to match them.

THIS is quite a good explanation.