24-bit? Do you use it?

[admin_exported]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone on the forum listens to music in 24-bit? If so, what software and hardware do you use?

Cheers

Shaun

 

[Anonymous]

DTS 96/24 is 24bit at 96Hz. I have Depeche Mode's back collection in DVD in this format. An AV amp will play this for you via LPCM or Bitstream (AC3 SPDIF).

If you check your soundcards properties it will allow you to test what bit rates your soundcard can output. Make sure your driver is up to date first.

I have not seen any downloadable music in 24bit which I imagine would be in MP4?

 

[Anonymous]

In this months What Hifi Magazine, there is an article about downloading sites.

B&W Society of Sound & Naim Labels & Linn Records all offer 24bit downloads - havent had a chance to test them yet - but the quality is better than CDs....

 

[Anonymous]

Glad you mentioned that, seeing as I manage the music download site for Bowers & Wilkins.

But I'm interested in the other sites as well, or more importantly, people's experience of 24-bit, and how you feel it sounds and what you need to do to get the best out of it.

I'm not looking to promote our site here specifically, just reading the article in What this month got me thinking, is 24-bit FLAC the future of downloadable music, or like DVD-Audio is it just a cul-de-sac on the road to, well, somewhere else.

Cheers

Shaun

 

[PJPro]

It's the future. Storage is already cheap as chips and will only get cheaper. The only limiting factor will be download speeds.

The 24-bit download will herald the death of the CD. Why would anyone want to use them?

 

[PJPro]

PJPro:It's the future. Storage is already cheap as chips and will only get cheaper. The only limiting factor will be download speeds.

The 24-bit download will herald the death of the CD. Why would anyone want to use them?
Actually, I'd like to qualify the above. I stated some time ago on this forum that the time will come when you won't actually own any music. You'll have play on demand for a monthly subscription. This is the ultimate future and it appears that Spotify is already making that future a reality.

So, Shaun Marin, get out while you can!

 

[Charlie Jefferson]

My DAC will accept 24bit/192kHz music but I can't stream it from my computer to my hi-fi.

My recent Neil Young Archive Blu-Rays are 24/192 encoded but I'm playing them optically out of the PS3 to the DAC, so I'm still not getting the full fat version, I believe.

I'd like to sample 24bit stuff, but whenever I d-load it to my Mac I have to convert it first, thereby reducing it's 24bitness, I presume.

That said, the Neil Young stuff sounds fantastic in whatever bit/kHz version I'm hearing. It beats the CD or the Lossless versions when played using the same DAC as the fulcrum for listening.

 

[Messiah]

I must say the first 2 replies made me chuckle. I'm sure given Shaun's position that he is well aware how to get and play the format. (Grandma and sucking eggs comes to mind)

Sometimes it pays to read the signature

 

[Anonymous]

Messiah:
I must say the first 2 replies made me chuckle. I'm sure given Shaun's position that he is well aware how to get and play the format. (Grandma and sucking eggs comes to mind)

Sometimes it pays to read the signature

I am genuinely interested in people's experience though - and how people listen to 24-bit files. It's obviously important for what I do!

 

[Anonymous]

PJPro:PJPro:It's the future. Storage is already cheap as chips and will only get cheaper. The only limiting factor will be download speeds.

The 24-bit download will herald the death of the CD. Why would anyone want to use them?
Actually, I'd like to qualify the above. I stated some time ago on this forum that the time will come when you won't actually own any music. You'll have play on demand for a monthly subscription. This is the ultimate future and it appears that Spotify is already making that future a reality.

So, Shaun Marin, get out while you can!

I'm hoping people will still need top quality speakers - no matter what source they use!

 

[PJPro]

Isn't the speaker manager job already taken?

 

[Anonymous]

PJPro:Isn't the speaker manager job already taken?

Yes, but the PR job is all mine!

 

[Messiah]

Shaun Marin:
I am genuinely interested in people's experience though - and how people listen to 24-bit files. It's obviously important for what I do!

Of course!

Not actually tried any myself though. Might have to do some investigation.......

 

[PJPro]

Shaun Marin:
PJPro:Isn't the speaker manager job already taken?

Yes, but the PR job is all mine!

Touch‚!

[PICTURE DELETED BY MODS - HOUSE RULES VIOLATION]

 

[Anonymous]

Messiah:
I must say the first 2 replies made me chuckle. I'm sure given Shaun's position that he is well aware how to get and play the format. (Grandma and sucking eggs comes to mind)

Sometimes it pays to read the signature

Indeed Messiah - I was too quick to help, without any caution

 

[Messiah]

Vinny7:Messiah:
I must say the first 2 replies made me chuckle. I'm sure given Shaun's position that he is well aware how to get and play the format. (Grandma and sucking eggs comes to mind)

Sometimes it pays to read the signature

Indeed Messiah - I was too quick to help, without any caution

I'm glad you were quick to help because you have brightened what was a dull day

 

[Anonymous]

Shaun Marin:
Glad you mentioned that, seeing as I manage the music download site for Bowers & Wilkins.

But I'm interested in the other sites as well, or more importantly, people's experience of 24-bit, and how you feel it sounds and what you need to do to get the best out of it.

I'm not looking to promote our site here specifically, just reading the article in What this month got me thinking, is 24-bit FLAC the future of downloadable music, or like DVD-Audio is it just a cul-de-sac on the road to, well, somewhere else.

Cheers

Shaun

As soon as my digital setup is finished (making a few changes at the moment - CA DAC Magic has gone, new higher end DAC coming soon). I shall be using B&W and Naim to test some tracks out.

In terms of the future - it depends how many people are willing to pay a premium for the format. Most people own low to mid range systems and therefore the benefits of a 24-bit track wouldnt be as noticeable unless on a high end system (obviously a general rule).

Another factor is the price, are consumers willing to pay the premium over the CD quality 16bit downloads on offer too - obviously the 24 bit prices are related to higher production costs I assume.

Also currently, the 24bit selections are of specific music genres & of limited numbers at this current stage.

No offence to B&W but it seems (and I have no idea about facts within these markets) that iTunes & Spotify own the majority share - maybe affiliating with either, might help promote the 24bit tracks and then see the potential for its future longevity. But im sure you & B&W have all these thoughts & plans at this current stage.

I can only speak for myself, and I know I will be interested in higher quality tracks.

 

[Anonymous]

PJPro:PJPro:It's the future. Storage is already cheap as chips and will only get cheaper. The only limiting factor will be download speeds.

The 24-bit download will herald the death of the CD. Why would anyone want to use them?
Actually, I'd like to qualify the above. I stated some time ago on this forum that the time will come when you won't actually own any music. You'll have play on demand for a monthly subscription. This is the ultimate future and it appears that Spotify is already making that future a reality.

So, Shaun Marin, get out while you can!

I think Spotify (which I only found out about today after reading the mag) is amazing. However I think with streaming limitations, & varying internet speeds, and may other internet problem factors. I think downloading will still be the biggest part of how the digital era will evolve. Not to mention once downloaded, it can be used on storage devices on the go and easily transferrable. Also it may sound silly, but consumers might be more confortable with something "tangible". Just my opinion however

 

[PJPro]

Vinny7:
Just my opinion however

That's all any of us can give...

 

[Anonymous]

Vinny7:
Another factor is the price, are consumers willing to pay the premium over the CD quality 16bit downloads on offer too - obviously the 24 bit prices are related to higher production costs I assume.

Also currently, the 24bit selections are of specific music genres & of limited numbers at this current stage.

No offence to B&W but it seems (and I have no idea about facts within these markets) that iTunes & Spotify own the majority share - maybe affiliating with either, might help promote the 24bit tracks and then see the potential for its future longevity. But im sure you & B&W have all these thoughts & plans at this current stage.

I can only speak for myself, and I know I will be interested in higher quality tracks.

Bowers & Wilkins obviously isn't thinking it can take on iTunes as a music download service for billions of people. But we are keen to promote 24-bit music, as we feel quality is important to all of us in the hi-fi industry, and people who simply love music. That's one of the reasons we don't charge more for 24-bit downloads over 16-bit.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Shaun,

I have a little mix of 24bit music. So far it has all been acquired as-and-when free samplers have been available from 2L, HD Tracks, Linn, B&W, Naim, and probably some others.

I use a Mac and iTunes with AVI Neutron speakers, but these do not have a digital input so I don't think I am getting the most out of the high resolution recordings. There is a need for music in the conservatory, however, so we may move the Neutrons there with an Airport Express, and replace the living room system with AVI ADM9.1, to be future-proof in case of growing 24bit.

The high res music sounds good but ultimately I am interested in content. A lot of 24bit stores offer quite boring music if I'm being honest.

All of this will remain a niche. I doubt that any of my friends know what file formats are on their iPods, let alone the bitrate. It isn't of interest to the masses and the files are too big.

I have read of "MP3 HD" and "AAC HD" codecs being developed which will be more efficient and will not sound worse.

But also recently read of a blind test where high res music was passed through a 16bit converter and couldn't be noticed when blind testing.

This industry could go anywhere. For me the ultimate would be to run high quality Spotify on my Mac, plugged into the ADM9.1, and controlled by a bespoke iPhone Remote App.

 

[John Duncan]

Personally I don't - there isn't any 24-bit music around that I'd actually want to listen to, and my streaming solution downsamples to 16-bit anyway, so there'd be no point. That's not to say I wouldn't if it were practical (and there was any content worth having).

 

[pete321]

I would if there was enough mainstream artists to choose from. I love SACD, DVD-Audio, XRCD etc, but it's the same problem, not enough mainstream music.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

JohnDuncan:Personally I don't - there isn't any 24-bit music around that I'd actually want to listen to, and my streaming solution downsamples to 16-bit anyway, so there'd be no point. That's not to say I wouldn't if it were practical (and there was any content worth having).

I'm the same and if SACD and DVD Audio were formats that offered discs of the music I liked, I would have bought an all singing all dancing universal machine.

As a side, I disagree with PJ (for once!). I quite like the idea of owning (having) my music on my hard drive and not just being able to access it for a monthly fee. What happens if the internet goes down or you want to take your music on holiday? I can see the benefit of Spotify to access music before buying but I wouldn't personally use it for anything else.

 

[Anonymous]

Shaun Marin:
Bowers & Wilkins obviously isn't thinking it can take on iTunes as a music download service for billions of people. But we are keen to promote 24-bit music, as we feel quality is important to all of us in the hi-fi industry, and people who simply love music. That's one of the reasons we don't charge more for 24-bit downloads over 16-bit.

Excellent, I didnt realise you charged the same price. I was on the Naim website and I know there is a price difference.

Shaum Marin, after helpful advice from JD its become clear to me that streaming
music via Apple TV to my Musical Fidelity KW DAC (nothing yet
purchased) will only be limited to 16bit because of the Apple TV
device. Can you suggest/recommend the best way to experience the 24bit
sound then?